Best 1860 colt army replica
Who makes the replica for the money? I am looking for a shooter.
Thanks
Thanks
0
-
It is hard to beat the Uberti. 0 -
Of the currently manufactured replicas, Uberti would be the best. They also offer the most options in the 1860. You can get a military (cut for shoulder stock) or civilian (no stock cut or screws), fluted cylinder or not, and steel grip frames or brass. Texas Jack's is the retail arm of Cimmaron and Uberti and has most of the variations in stock. Although I had to call them about every 2 months for a year to finally catch them when they had a Civilian model with steel backstrap. 0 -
The Uberti's are very nice, Colt even uses the Uberti parts to build thier copies. I have a 1860, a 1851 Navy, and a 1858 Remington by Pietta and they fire nice and the fit and finish looks good. About two year ago I picked up a Model 1860 Uberti/Cimmeron rework. The pistol looked very nice but the action was very ruff and tight. I smoothed out a lot of the parts my self and she functions much better now, but have not taken her to the range as of yet. I know the CASS boys love the Uberti/Cimmeron re-works but think your money is better spent having a good gunsmith go over a Pietta! Just my 2 cents. 0 -
Pietta quality has improved the last few years. The Pietta's made for EMF are the best. They will apparently do a better job for some importers than others. I looked at 3 1860's made by Pietta for Cabellas once and all three had quality control problems, but I've bought two from EMF that were excellent.
Quality control can vary no matter who makes it. Just don't be afraid to send it back and ask for another one if there's a problem.0 -
If you want the best, try to find a 2nd generation Colt....even a used one that has been fired but not abused. They are pricey, but worth every cent. None of the Italians even come close to their finish and fit. As for accuracy, they beat all of the Italians hands down. Lastely, they keep their value.
If you can't find a 2nd gen. gun, try a Signature Series (3rd generation) Colt. Don't believe the nay sayers, most of whom have never owned on not to say even handled one.
They are the next best for all the reasons cited for the r2nd gen. guns.0 -
?? On another thread, it was posted that the Colts re-issues were made by Uberti . . . the parts were shipped stateside, and final fit and finish were done by . . . Iver-Johnson as I recall the post. ?? Any road, that probably makes them the best "repros".
I bought an "Italian" '61 Navy years before the Colt re-issues. I found out later it was made by Uberti. That was about 1968. I have shot it a lot, still do, and have found it to be a pretty decent piece. Not long ago, I picked up a recent Uberti, same model, and by comparison, it's nowhere near as good as my old one. It has required a lot of "fiddling" to get it up to par with my old one. I have a Pietta '51 Navy, which I never shot, because it is really a piece of junk. [:(]
I've flirted with the Colts re-issues, but alas, so far, I've been too cheap to spring for one. [:D]0 -
Do not pre-judge the 2nd and 3rd gen. Colt percussion revolvers until you have held one in your hand and fired it.
For both 2nd and 3rd gen. Colt percussion revolvers, Uberti provided rough castings for the barrel,loading lever, cylinder, frame, hammer, and trigger. These parts were machined and forged into their final shapes (including the rifling of the barrel) by Colt for the 2nd gen. "C" Series and by Ivor Johnson for the 2nd gen. "F" series. All screws and internal parts were made under various sub-contracts in the U.S. Ivor Johnson also blued and case hardened the appropriate parts using Colt's proprietary processes. The Colt factory provided the quality control system and personnel for their manufacture.
The 3rd gen. "Signature Series" Colts were made under a licensing agreement with Colt by the successor to Ivor Johnson, Colt Blackpowder, Inc. Colt Blackpowder had the same assembly line crew, supervisors, and gunsmiths as did Ivor Johnson. In other words, the same people who put together the 2nd gen. guns.
Considering Colt's history of subcontracting, I guess you couldn't call most Colt Patersons or the Colt Walker as genuine Colts, because Sam Colt did not own the Paterson Factory, and did not oversee production there; and, the Colt Walkers were actually manufactured under contract by Eli Whitney, Jr. at his factory in what is now part of New Haven, Conn.
I would suggest you search the net for a good used (i.e. one that has been fired) 2nd or 3rd gen. colt percussion revolver. They are definately not repos! And, the best of the Italians cannot compare with them.0 -
I think I will look for a 2nd or 3rd gen Colt based on what ya'll have said. I was looking at the Uberti because I had be "Told" that the made the guns for Colt and all Colt did was blue them and sell them for more $$.
Thanks to all the replies now I need to start hunting one down
Sam0 -
What Steg said +1 0 -
Dang it Steg, you're a heckuva salesman. Now i'm hankering for a 2nd gen Colt - again - i was lusting after 'em when they first came out. Damn my Scots ancestry !! [:(] 0 -
Thanks to one and all for your kind remarks.
For all of you who are tempted to buy a 2nd or 3rd generation percussion Colt, I suggest that you do so in the near future. If you have any doubt as to their prices, simply compare what they originally sold for and what they are fetching now on the various internet sales sites. One that has been fired are now selling for what Colt originally sold them for.
It has been my experience as a long time Colt collector, that when you see a Colt at a reasonable price, grab it if you have the money. It will hardly ever again be available at that price. This holds for all stores, gun shows and internet sales.0 -
Hey Steg,
I think you better check your facts here because what you are preaching about the 2nd and 3rd Gen. Colts is just wrong!
There is no way that Colt could have machined ANY Mdl 1851 parts,(not to mention barrels, cylinders, frames, etc.....), because all thier toolings and machinery was lost for the Mdl.1851 Navy in the Feb. 4th Factory Fire of 1864.
Everything for the early "C" model, 2nd Gen. Colts came from Italy. It is true that Colt did all the fit and finish on the small internal parts, but all the barrels, cylinders, frames, etc..... all were Italian made. It was this high labor cost in the fit/finish of these parts that had Colt struggling to build the early 1851 Navy's from 1971 to 1973. However, late in 1973 Colt decided to seek a new supplier of components and the following year Lou Imperato, its largest American distributor, took over. But all the major parts still came in from Italy, it is just that Lou over at I.J. was now doing the fit/finish work.
Now if you wanna talk 3rd Gen. now you are getting back to the old way that Colts were made........ but "Colt" was NOT doing any of the work! Unlike their first arrangement, Imperato was now responsible for the entire production of Colt black-powder models. Here is a quote from Lou in an article about the 3rd Gen. Colts: "They were all hand-fitted. There was no way to do mass production," explains Imperato. "We had the barrels, cylinders and backstraps cast in Italy (as Forgett had done), but we finished them off in-house. We made the frames, the center pins, nipples, all of the screws, springs, and built every F Series gun at Iver Johnson Arms. We even used the old style color-case hardening method with the charcoal and bone meal, and Colt's exclusive Colt Blue Finish. They turned out pretty good. In fact, I think our finishes were actually better than Colt's single actions being done in Hartford."
So here is the information straight from the horses mouth.....0 -
quote:Originally posted by odentheviking
Hey Steg,
I think you better check your facts here because what you are preaching about the 2nd and 3rd Gen. Colts is just wrong!
There is no way that Colt could have machined ANY Mdl 1851 parts,(not to mention barrels, cylinders, frames, etc.....), because all thier toolings and machinery was lost for the Mdl.1851 Navy in the Feb. 4th Factory Fire of 1864.
Everything for the early "C" model, 2nd Gen. Colts came from Italy. It is true that Colt did all the fit and finish on the small internal parts, but all the barrels, cylinders, frames, etc..... all were Italian made. It was this high labor cost in the fit/finish of these parts that had Colt struggling to build the early 1851 Navy's from 1971 to 1973. However, late in 1973 Colt decided to seek a new supplier of components and the following year Lou Imperato, its largest American distributor, took over. But all the major parts still came in from Italy, it is just that Lou over at I.J. was now doing the fit/finish work.
Now if you wanna talk 3rd Gen. now you are getting back to the old way that Colts were made........ but "Colt" was NOT doing any of the work! Unlike their first arrangement, Imperato was now responsible for the entire production of Colt black-powder models. Here is a quote from Lou in an article about the 3rd Gen. Colts: "They were all hand-fitted. There was no way to do mass production," explains Imperato. "We had the barrels, cylinders and backstraps cast in Italy (as Forgett had done), but we finished them off in-house. We made the frames, the center pins, nipples, all of the screws, springs, and built every F Series gun at Iver Johnson Arms. We even used the old style color-case hardening method with the charcoal and bone meal, and Colt's exclusive Colt Blue Finish. They turned out pretty good. In fact, I think our finishes were actually better than Colt's single actions being done in Hartford."
So here is the information straight from the horses mouth.....
FYI I have checked my facts. The speciality machinery that was scrapped, was of the order of machines that drilled and tapped the nipple holes in one operation, and machined a dozen one piece grips in a single operation. The machinery used in finishing the rough Italian made parts were standard machine tools found in any modern gun works and machine shop. The same goes for the machine tools in the Brooklyn factory.
Incidentally, I was in the Colt plant in the early 1970's and got the $5.00 super tour. I also was in Lou Imperato's Brooklyn plant on numerous occasions and actually saw them working on various parts for the 3rd generation pistols.
You are quoting from Adlers book. Let's put it this way. His pictures are better and more accurate than his text....And if you believe everything that he writes about 2nd and 3rd gen. Colt percussion revolvers, I have a bridge going to Brooklyn for sale!0 -
Hey Steg, Not trying to be a dick here but you are talking up the 2nd Gen. Colts, asking folks to pay big bucks for basicly a really nice Uberti that any gunsmith could fine tune and refinish for a lot less $$$$! The 3rd gen. that I have handled/fired are much nicer and more closer to a fair price, fit, and finish than the 2nd Gen. I know some guys that are Civil War Re-enactors that want real colts so they can show the correct markings in a reproduction, but the the guy asking for advice wanted to know about the best shooter.
In your earlier post you said this: "For both 2nd and 3rd gen. Colt percussion revolvers, Uberti provided rough castings for the barrel,loading lever, cylinder, frame, hammer, and trigger. These parts were machined and forged into their final shapes (including the rifling of the barrel) by Colt for the 2nd gen. "C" Series and by Ivor Johnson for the 2nd gen. "F" series. All screws and internal parts were made under various sub-contracts in the U.S. Ivor Johnson also blued and case hardened the appropriate parts using Colt's proprietary processes. The Colt factory provided the quality control system and personnel for their manufacture."
This is not true, special toolings are needed to bore and rifle, this are not available at Colt for these Models.
So help me understand this....... because you claim to have visited the Colt factory over 40 years ago this makes you more of an expert than the guys that wrote the books or worked at the factory for all those years????
Are you also the guy that in another BP post told a guy to load his revolver with live caps on the nipples to avoid chain-fire???
Maybe you should avoid giving advice unless you really know what you are talking about.0 -
I am not going to go any further in a p**sing match with you. You are like so many nay sayers about the 2nd and 3rd generation Colts.
Why do you think that most of the cowboy action shooters in the percussion categories choose the Colt pistols over any of the Italians-including Uberti's? In addition, if you look up any of the many articles in gun magazines written about them from the 1970's to the 1990's all comment about how well they shot and their accuracy as compared to the Italians. The only modern made percussion revolvers that can even compare to the 2nd and 3rd gen. Colts are those made by Old Navy.
You are entitled to your opinions, as ill informed as they may be.
There is an old expression we have in New York City you should remember: "Never, ever, try to con an old con man!"0 -
"New York City!?!?!?....... Get the rope!"
You know what Steg, that is fine with me. But the facts speak for themselves, Uberti produced all the cylinders, barrels and the rifleing so your 2nd and 3rd Colt are just dressed up, fancy, over priced Uberti's!
The problem comes when you give advice to someone that is dangerous or costs them a whole lot more money....... that makes us all look bad. There are many posts here that I think I know the answer to but do not speak because I know there are folks here with more knowledge or can just say it better than I. But I do know that there are more Italian made Reproduction Colts being used in SASS and CAS than 2nd and 3rd Gen Colts!*Note: Most of these have been converted to cartridge Fire!* And that most of the real SAA Colts used in SASS shoots have been reworked and tricked out by some very talented gunsmiths to make them shoot they way they do. A Colt out of the box is average at best and mostly eye candy in somebodies "Investment Safe".
I have never understood this love affair with Colt, when all he ever did was make the cheapest, Govt. contract, low bid, mass production firearms. But when you are in LOVE, you can think only of your next piece!(Why do you think they call it the "Peace Maker"?????0 -
Guys, I know how frustrating it can be not to have your posts accepted gracefully when opinions conflict. The problem with a forum like this is that none of us have any way to "prove" the absolute correctness of the facts we hold true. It would be best to keep posts friendly and gentlemanly, and not get all emotional. The truth will out eventually, and folks will tend to make their own evaluations in any debate, as more reasonable posts are contributed.
This is compounded by the problem of these pistols themselves. In any manufacturer's "run of the mill", there will be a few lemons, and a few superlative pieces . . . neither of 'em is the whole picture.0 -
I have been shooting a "Signature" 1860 for couple of years now and really am impressed with it. The fit and finish are excellent and I can put two out of six on a standard B-27 target at 100 yards consistently. Compared to the Pietta 1858 Remington I have the Colt is A Rolls and the 1858 is a Jeep. 0 -
Thanks again, Steg. I wouldn't have needed a whole lot of convincing anyhow, but over the weekend I was able to handle a 2nd generation Colt at a gun show, and now I'm a "true believer". Neither of my Uberti replicas even compare with the Colt 2nd . . . the action was smooth as silk, and the exterior finish far superior. First one I've seen in the flesh, and they're definitely worth the tab. They're out there, and not too hard to find . . . there are several on Gunbroker right now. I "won" a 51 Navy NIB this morning at a reasonable price . . . the guy at the gun show was a bit steep IMHO for a gun that had been fired. 0 -
Thanks for your remarks, and welcome to the club. Just call me "el Corrupto"! Like I have said, most of the "gun nuts" that damn the 2nd and 3rd generation Colts, either have never handled them, not to say haven't shot tme, but rely oonly on what they have read. To them I say "reading about fireing Colts and not actually doing it is like trying to learn how to swim on a sofa." 0 -
quote:Originally posted by steg
. . . Just call me "el Corrupto"! . . .
!!@#%**$!! you, steg, thanks to you, I now own an 1851 Colt Navy "Signature Series". Found it NIB on the auctions, and it is incredible. I doubt if it had ever been taken out of the original package. It is so well timed the bolt doesn't leave the slightest trace on the cylinder, and the comparison makes my Ubertis look positively "junky", and I always thought they were pretty decent repros. Now to shoot the hell out of it !!! [:)]
(thanks for shaming me into this . . . after 40 years, too soon old, too late smart, but not quite too late !! [:D] )0 -
Say Mr. Steg: I'm a Uberti Colt guy but you sure defended yourself in that exchange. What it boils down to one must have an open mind (correct). So I put a bid in on a 3rd. Model Dragoon revolver signature series.. Now if I win I'm going to give that Colt and Uberti a good test run at the range. Nice talking to you a former Brooklyn guy. Mike 0 -
Hi there, Fokker Triplane, stay tuned !! I want to compare notes with you, soon as I can get out and shoot my new Navy. [:)] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Fokker Triplane
Say Mr. Steg: I'm a Uberti Colt guy but you sure defended yourself in that exchange. What it boils down to one must have an open mind (correct). So I put a bid in on a 3rd. Model Dragoon revolver signature series.. Now if I win I'm going to give that Colt and Uberti a good test run at the range. Nice talking to you a former Brooklyn guy. Mike
Being from Brooklyn, you'll appreciate the fact that the Signature Series were made in Brooklyn!!!! and like most things from Brooklyn are put together right and work better than things made elsewhere.0 -
Good Morning Guys: Now I did not know that about the signature series. Be happy to compare notes with you Mr. Flyingcollie. Being a retired gent I have more time on my hands now! Just put a bid on a Colt 1860 Army. Both the Colts will be the first ones I ever owned or fired. Like I said I'm a Uberti guy. Take care gents. 0 -
Mr. Steg: Just won ownership of two Colts Signature Series: (1) 3rd. Gen Dragoon (2) 1860 Army. Can you tell me anything about them? I will put both of them to the test with my Uberti's. Unbias and open minded this test will be. Howthe kicker will be I have Parkinson. We will see what is the performanace of the two (2) manufactors with a condition, I still am a good shot. I will be using Goex BP. 3F, 25gr. in the Army and 50gr. in the Dragoons. Home made felt wad between powder and ball. The ball(s) will be Hornady .44cal .454" rd. ball(s). Topped with Bore Butter. No brench rest will be standing right arm extended.. Distance will be 25yds. on my range outdoors. Weather: as long it is not raining on my range in the UP. of Michigan: outside of Iron River. Mike 0 -
I can't tell you too much about either gun, except that if they are 3rd gen., both will have the Colt signature roll engraved on the backstrap, and the case hardening pattern is to die for!
If you have never fired a dragoon before, I feel I must warn/remind you that 50 grains of BP was the load that many ACW muskets used, and firing that load by hand is indeed an experience!
If you haven't fired a dragoon before, I would load a blank of about 30 grains and work up from there. It will let your body get accustomed to the shock of the recoil. If you load a smaller than 50 grain of powder with a projectile, make up the volume difference of the lesser BP charge with corn meal between the blackpowder and the projectile.0 -
I've had two 2nd Gen Colts: a Pocket Police and a stainless 1860 Army.
The Army is a perfectly made piece. It's at least as well made as a 95% original I had. Conversely, the Pocket Police presentation set had a hammer that wouldn't reach the nipples, flask that didn't seal & a mold that wouldn't seal; all in a cheap case unlike any original. In short good looking junk.It came with a belt buckle which for some reason has value. The company sent me another set with a better revolver but the accessories were still unrepairable junk. Their story was that this set was not intended to be functional.
I sold it asap.
Their plan was to produce a line in stainless. However they later sent me a letter saying they changed their plans.
I bought Uberti's display model stainless Pocket Police off the wall. It's a well made piece except for a too heavy hammer spring.
With it's 5 1/2" barrel it chronographs not much less than the '51 Navy.0 -
quote:Originally posted by steg
quote:Originally posted by Fokker Triplane
Say Mr. Steg: I'm a Uberti Colt guy but you sure defended yourself in that exchange. What it boils down to one must have an open mind (correct). So I put a bid in on a 3rd. Model Dragoon revolver signature series.. Now if I win I'm going to give that Colt and Uberti a good test run at the range. Nice talking to you a former Brooklyn guy. Mike
Being from Brooklyn, you'll appreciate the fact that the Signature Series were made in Brooklyn!!!! and like most things from Brooklyn are put together right and work better than things made elsewhere.
Mr. "Fokker Triplane", (if that is who you really are and not Steg writing to himself!!!!), it is very easy to "defend youself" in that exchange when you just make things up and have NO facts to support what you are saying. The facts are that the Colt BP line are Italian made parts built, fit and finished at one of the Colt factories or subcontractors here in the states. You could get the same thing or better by taking any Uberti or Pietta to a gunsmith that knows what he is doing and having it fine tuned, for a fraction of the cost.
And for those folks that wanna shot these BP Colt reproductions, PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN TO ANYTHING STEG SAYS!!!!! He does not know what he is taking about, you are gonna get hurt following his crazy suggestions! I have never heard of placing "corn meal" in with the BP of any weapon! That is just nuts and you are gonna get someone hurt bad! Just like your other suggestion on another post that someone should put live caps on thier C&B BP pistol before loading! If you wanna kill yourself go ahead, but do not tell others to do things that are dangerous!0 -
P.S. Steg, You are correct...... The 3rd Gen. Signature Series models were made in Brooklyn, NY by John Jovino and Co. and NOT by Colt or any Colt employees!
2nd Gens were made in Middlesex NJ by Iver Johnson using parts made in Italy (Case hardening for these was done in Hartford). They were inspected, marketed, and warranteed by Colt's. Some later F series models were assembled in Arkansas.0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
42 comments