It certainly looks like we are on the brink of war.
I know the current administration is hell bent on destroying this nation from within, but I hadn't quite calculated that they would think the destruction is going so slowly that they need to get us entangled in a war with a nuclear power.
We just authorized sending tanks to Ukraine.
There is no way Russia sees this move as anything but an act of war (they're already retaliating in Ukraine). I'm sure in their mind, financing and small arms aid up to this point was borderline. And now Ukraine is renewing their ask for air support as well. I have few doubts we will provide it. Lots of articles here, all supporting these thoughts. Read through them as you have time. It does not look promising.
Russia retaliates with mass missile attack on Ukraine after tanks promise | First Thing
Ssending tanks is seen as growing ‘direct involvement in the conflict’ from US and Nato, Kremlin says. Plus, how did America’s eggs get absurdly expensive?
Kremlin says U.S.-supplied tanks will 'burn' in Ukraine
The Kremlin said on Wednesday that any Abrams battle tanks supplied to Ukraine by the United States would "burn", dismissing the expected delivery as an expensive folly.
Ukraine got its tanks. Now it wants jet fighters too
Discussions are underway about supplying Kyiv with modern aircraft, despite Western fears of escalation.
Defense Leaders Pledge New Ukraine Support
Following the Ukraine Defense Contact Group meeting, Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III said the nations are working together very smoothly to deliver to Ukraine the equipment it needs to defend
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The way I heard it, we 'committed' to send tanks to Ukraine. Gotta build them first.
IF (and that's the big IF) we were willing to get into a war, we'd send air power to simply DEVASTATE Russian armor. We have that capability(remember the Iraqi's trying to escape Kuwait?) to completely overwhelm anything the Russians have in the field TOMORROW but we're offering Abrams tanks to be delivered in a year or two.
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Mobuck: 30380294497947/comments/30380279388571
The way I heard it, we 'committed' to send tanks to Ukraine. Gotta build them first.
IF (and that's the big IF) we were willing to get into a war, we'd send air power to simply DEVASTATE Russian armor. We have that capability(remember the Iraqi's trying to escape Kuwait?) to completely overwhelm anything the Russians have in the field TOMORROW but we're offering Abrams tanks to be delivered in a year or two.
The delivery timeline is a bit uncertain. It may be a matter of a few months or could be a couple years. They are relying on industry to supply them and there's a potential backlog in the way. My guess is the skids will get greased and they will have tanks by year's end.
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and they want our guns too
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I would think they would NOT be getting the current M1A tank.........as it's design/components are highly classified. Perhaps some older mothballed tanks.
Just a thought/$0.02......
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'.as it's design/components are highly classified. Perhaps some older mothballed tanks.'
News report this evening said 'new production' so it's possible the classified goodies could be deleted.
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World War 3 Incoming..be ready...
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Certainly edging closer.
I believe the Abrahms Tanks were only offered up, due to the German demand that they would only supply their Leopard II tanks, IF we supplied the Abrahms. NATO was at an impasse.
Putin has proven himself to be unstable, getting bad advice from those around him.
Would not take too much, a mistake by either side, to start the ball rolling.
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62vld2042: 30380294497947/comments/30380302480923
I would think they would NOT be getting the current M1A tank.........as it's design/components are highly classified. Perhaps some older mothballed tanks.
Just a thought/$0.02......
FYI we have sent the M1 to several country's, not many know this but Egypt has more M1's than the USMC did. Iraq has over 300 as do the Saudis.
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From what I have read and watched on a documentary a while back, the German Leopard 2 is the top rated tank in the world right now. I also believe it is diesel powered which gives it a longer range than the M1A Abrams tank.
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WW3 is already here. Right now, we're fighting a proxy war but it's slowly expanding with each batch of military aid. And Ukraine won't get the tanks for a while because they have to be new built with different armor. Their tanks can't have the depleted uranium armor mesh due to federal laws regarding spent fissile material. Their tanks, like other export customers, will have the tungsten composite armor. And besides there's only one tank plant in the US, in Lima Ohio so they can only move so fast. With a reported build rate of 3 tanks a week, could take a while. If it wasn't for the armor issue, they could simply pull tanks from storage where, reportedly, 3700 reside.
Make no mistake here, they have already stated that the end goal is regime change in Moscow. It's been stated repeatedly by numerous officials up to president deadhead. Several foreign countries have also stated this as well so I don't see how a full-blown conflict can be avoided. Someone is going to get stupid and eventually push one button too many.
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How is sending U.S. tanks and other resources to the Ukraine now, any different than any other time that we have fought a proxy war?
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There is no real difference, I think the stakes are much higher now. Mission creep is in play, the weapons systems being supplied are growing both in terms of sophistication and lethality, officials from NATO have stated its a war between the alliance and Russia which has the largest nuclear weapons arsenal on the planet. They have also overtly stated that regime change is the goal. The consequences of a misstep could be severe.
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MPistone: 30380294497947/comments/30380265372059
How is sending U.S. tanks and other resources to the Ukraine now, any different than any other time that we have fought a proxy war?
It's not. Look at the Korean War, Vietnam War, & Afghanistan..
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One really has to wonder what's going on. The number stated doesn't make a lot of sense from a tactical standpoint.
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I read a few days ago that the Dutch are going after Zelensky.. they are trying to figure out how he is worth 850 million dollars...
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@...: 30380294497947/comments/30380280623899
I read a few days ago that the Dutch are going after Zelensky.. they are trying to figure out how he is worth 850 million dollars...
Part of that is from the Biden's of course.
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So what will the U.S. do if Russia wins this war???
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fayettefatts: 30380294497947/comments/30380304179227
So what will the U.S. do if Russia wins this war???
Now that's an interesting question!
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fayettefatts: 30380294497947/comments/30380304179227
So what will the U.S. do if Russia wins this war???
Nothing I think. America, like Europe, believe that it is in their nation's interest to support Ukraine. That "interest" is greater for Russia (the Soviet Union) not only as Kyiv offers strategic military value due to it's location, but with the world watching a Russian win would damage the United State's credibility (leadership and strength) in the eyes of Europe and send a strong signal to China's President Xi Jinping that America is week and an alliance with Russia would strengthen both countries.
China and Russia both know that America is not week, but we have no leadership (backbone) with the current administration. Should Putin gain victory in the Ukraine while Biden is in office - we'll lose, on every front. Putin is not an idiot and Russia will likely step up it's aggression to secure a win before 2024 to avoid facing a potentially strong Republican.
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The chairman of NATO's military committee announced that the alliance is ready for a direct confrontation with Russia. That's odd, considering the fact that most of the countries within the alliance have failed for years to pony up the minimum agreed amount for defense.
The future is looking ominous.
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Like I said..if Putin is the good guy in all of this... people's heads will explode..
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The broader question is just how long this is going to drag out. The current administration says it's in for as long as it takes no matter the cost. Nato members have made the same claim.
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MPistone: 30380294497947/comments/30380265372059
How is sending U.S. tanks and other resources to the Ukraine now, any different than any other time that we have fought a proxy war?
It's not different than some of them, but it is a bit different this time because of the players involved. Usually, lately anyway, the US stays out of conflicts that would lure Russia in.
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During the Korean conflict, politically called a 'police action', American pilots engaging Mig-15s knew that they were actually fighting Soviet pilots. Both sides had to observe certain rules of engagement and utmost secrecy to prevent the conflict into escalating into a world war.
In Ukraine, NATO nations sending weapons (Britain sending Challenger Tanks, Germany sending Leopards, and the US sending Abrams, and Denmark sending F-16s) have to be especially careful that their 'military advisors' do not become combatants. This could lead to an outright declaration of war against the offending country.
With the boatloads of money going to Zelensky, I think he should be buying his own equipment.
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Are we going to take him at his word?
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Poland just announced that it is willing to send F-16 fighter planes to Ukraine. See how this is slowly escalating just as it is with the mission creep. We went from territorial expulsion to regime change, we went from Stingers to hawks and now to Patriots, we went from Humvee's to Bradley's and now to Abrams, Leopards, Challengers, Marder's and possible French LeClerc's.
Germany deployed a Patriot battery on Nato soil to defend Nato airspace bordering on Ukraine. Is Germany really ready to possibly initiate a shootdown of Russian aircraft from Nato territory? The numbers stated on tanks to be supplied don't make any sense from either a tactical or strategic point. The numbers are small, and the equipment is arriving in drips and drabs mostly from existing stockpiles and not from new production. Is this a war of attrition? If so, we are underestimating the Russians legendary disregard about casualties. If they did care this conflict would have been over 6 months ago and they would have withdrawn back to pre-war boundaries, maybe even giving up Crimea back to Ukraine in the process. Who knows.
As Mr. Perfect points out, the players this time around are different and four of the players have nuclear weapons, one of which has the largest arsenal on the planet. Any screwups could have massive ramifications. What strikes me odd is that nothing taking place to date has made any sense from a military point of view. The Russians invaded Ukraine with a pitifully small force deployed on a front hundreds of miles long to achieve the goals initially stated. The leadership, planning and logistics were clearly lacking and even some of their equipment wasn't up to snuff. Ukraine did a masterful job of slowing down and eventually halting the advance but ultimately would have been defeated if not for the massive influx of money and material. But only enough to regain some territory and not enough to inflict a signal defeat on the Russians that would compel a withdrawal and cessation of hostilities. So, again I ask what's the point of the exercise? What's the end goal. And just how did Zelensky amass a fortune of $850 million bucks since 2019 when he was elected? And the comparison of Zelensky to Winston Churchill is laughable to say the least.
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Nephew is CSM at Bragg. He migrated from 5th SF Group and trains SF Troops. Last picture, no more room on his blues for ribbons. There are times when he disappears from the face of the earth. Most would be surprised at what goes on behind the scenes. We worry about him. -----------------------------Ray
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China...North Korea and Iran are just waiting in the wings... Taiwan.. South Korea and Israel are about to be Hammered... they have waited years for this...But hey..no more mean tweets....
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This is the flip side of the Korean and Vietnam conflicts other than in those two we were technically on the defense as compared to Russia being on the offense in Ukraine.
The Soviets sent modern weaponry in the these wars to test against a first world opponent and we are doing the same for Ukraine.
The question is one of personality. Putin seems to believe his legacy includes rebuilding at least some of what was The Soviet Union. He knows, especially considering the performance of his military in Ukraine, that direct conflict with the Western Allies will end this quest. It then becomes a question of stability and the willingness of the Russian military to follow Putin to oblivion.
Putin remains a wild card. A military revolt and/or coup would be very much in play.
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Don, I don't know that many Russian leaders disagree with Putin on this. Most of them want their kingdom back. They may disagree with the method, but I doubt they disagree with the goal.
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