what good is the statue of limitations anyway?
I Just responded to a post from the Dutchman titled, Whats your favorite muscle car? You know ,while I was wrighting my responce I started thinking again how unjust it really is especially when you are the victum! Here for example Auto theft. or GRAND THEFT AUTO. Did you know that once a vehical is reported stolen in NJ. It only stays in the computer for 5 years until the system purges itself. They'll tell you that the DMV will also show a stop notice in there computers.That too is a crock of crap! Even though the Anti Theft Act of 1992 was passed to prevent the trafficing of stolen motor vehicles into other states and the National Motor Vehicle Title Information System [NMVTIS]was created to instantly and reliably verify info from one state to another in about 7 seconds. They have special auto theft units ,special investigators and still with all that technoligy at their fingertips,it still dont mean crap! Apparently all they check is NCIC and we know that system purges every 5 years. So basicaly all the thief has to do is steal a car keep it hidden for say 10 years or so just to play it safe. Then sell the car to a friend in DE. give him some bullcrap bill of sale [apparently NO legal title is necessary] and now he can legally apply for a new DE.title in his name. WA LA STOLEN CAR NOW LEGALLY HIS. Oh if the try to bust you they cant because the STATUE OF LIMITATIONS LAWS PROTECT YOU. Please dont anybody try this Im just telling you what happened to me. My 1967 Mustang Fastback that has been in my family forever was stolen from me on Mothers Day back in may 1992. The mear fact that I know ware the car is now and I cant afford an attorney to try and get it back is literally killing me! Aint that a real mother s day?
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poop happens[;)] 0 -
What do you need an attorney for? A stolen car is a stolen car. The District Attorney is supposed to be the victims' mouthpiece in criminal cases. Have you even contacted the District Attorney? Can you prove to him the car was stolen from you? Maybe an old police report or insurance claim? 0 -
After 5 years, your car's probably junk anyway.[:D] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
What do you need an attorney for? A stolen car is a stolen car. The District Attorney is supposed to be the victims' mouthpiece in criminal cases. Have you even contacted the District Attorney? Can you prove to him the car was stolen from you? Maybe an old police report or insurance claim?
Hey p3skyking your not the first one to tell me that even a lawyer told me it should be cut and dried. But to answer your question ,Yes I have. In fact contacted just about everybody I could think of that might be able to help. I have even letters to The House OF Representatives in Washington DC.[Rob Andrerws] and Governer Corzine. Corzines letter was fowarded to Attorney Generals Office,Division of criminal justice and ultimatly fowarded again to the Assistant Prosecuter in Camden County They wrote back telling me they reviewed the police report from the township ware I reported it stolen and seen ware the Gloucester County Prosecuters Office concluded there was insufficant evidance to procede with a criminal prosecution and said morover, the statute of limitations expired, which prevents the institution of criminal proceedings. And advised me that the matter was more properly handled in the civil courts. They also I was free to pursue those remedies at my own discretion. Did I mention that the DE. man bought the car from a nj police officer? Or the fact that the origonal report was written by another cop whos last name ironically was the same as the only lead they had on the theft. coincedance? maybe? in the report he states he went to the suspects house and nobody was home but there was a garage on the premises with the windows and claims this information was fowarded to investigators and signs the report on the bottom ,officer so &so .There never was a follow up report .could my stolen car have been in that garage with the windows covered? I dident find this out for 10 years and when I did I went to the prosecuters office and advised them of it do you know what they told me? Oh well we know officer so & so and he happens to work in our office now and I really dont think he would have any involvment in that sort of thing. Are you starting to smell fish? I personally think I opened a can of worms here and nobody wants to help me for the probable reason it deals with there own people.I even tried contacting the DE. attorney General and they tell me it must be resolved in NJ first .The Delaware state police wont take the car from the guy down there who happens to be a very wealthy fire chief and collecter of mint mustangs. without an order from a Delaware judge. Who knows maybe that wealthy firechief is a big political contributor or somthing because they wont seem to give me the time of day. All I really need is enough money to hire a lawyer. Any body out there know a lawyer that would help out a fellow American?0 -
I don't know how "cut and dry" or "slam dunk" your case is. There is such a thing as a Bona Fide Purchaser for Value. I represent a motorcycle dealership, and we have had this come up a few times.
A buys car from B, pays with a check.
A gets a title issued right away.
After title is issued, B finds out that the check is no good.
A presents the title to C, who pays fair money for the car.
C tries to register the car and transfer title, but finds out that there is a stop action flash on the vehicle.
Under these circumstances, C is the owner of thar car. He is a good faith purchaser for value.
Now, as far as statute of limitations goes, there usually is an exception for fraudulent concealment. I had a case where a girl was run over and killed Christmas Eve 1990. 14 years later a guy who is A$$ deep in trouble with the law says he knows who did this, and tells the police. Police check it out, and it turns out that the girl who ran the victim over never called the police, and went and fixed the damage to the car, so that noone would know. We settled the case for full policy, which unfortunately was only 25K. The girl was a looser with no assets, and no way to collect. But at least there was some measure of justice...0 -
One thing that may sound funny and you might want to run this by your lawyer......
If you got the car back yourself can you be charged with theft if you own a legal tender title for that VIN number? Title's don't expire. His would be fraudulent if you hold an earlier issued one wouldn't it?
Do some investigating and make sure the VIN's match and they didn't change it.
I had the pleasure of working with some Mexicans in New Mexico in the early 90's. One of the old timers was talking about how they would steal new cars...bury them in the New Mexican desert....and dig them up a few years later. Free Cars....Brand new.
If you were paid off by an insurance company for the cars theft:
www.sportscarmarket.com/articles/archives/809
The insurance company owns the car, not you.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jgreen
I don't know how "cut and dry" or "slam dunk" your case is. There is such a thing as a Bona Fide Purchaser for Value. I represent a motorcycle dealership, and we have had this come up a few times.
A buys car from B, pays with a check.
A gets a title issued right away.
After title is issued, B finds out that the check is no good.
A presents the title to C, who pays fair money for the car.
C tries to register the car and transfer title, but finds out that there is a stop action flash on the vehicle.
Under these circumstances, C is the owner of thar car. He is a good faith purchaser for value.
Now, as far as statute of limitations goes, there usually is an exception for fraudulent concealment. I had a case where a girl was run over and killed Christmas Eve 1990. 14 years later a guy who is A$$ deep in trouble with the law says he knows who did this, and tells the police. Police check it out, and it turns out that the girl who ran the victim over never called the police, and went and fixed the damage to the car, so that noone would know. We settled the case for full policy, which unfortunately was only 25K. The girl was a looser with no assets, and no way to collect. But at least there was some measure of justice...
Hi jgreen, You sound like sombody who knows a little something about something, Your right it is alot more complicated than it sounds. When they told me the state would have to prove criminal intent I just assumed well thanthe state should try and prove criminal intent. I dident think it should be left up to me to prosecute whoever is responsable for this whole mess, after all I am the victum here and yes I do have a legal title in my name that was issued way back in the early 80 s and all the police records that prove the car was stolen and No there was never any insurance claim made, I never sold the car to anyone nor have I ever been compinsated for my loss. The vehical is still in my name with the NJ DMV and the police computer records. I understand your ABC example but I dont think that applies here because no one else ever had any legal rights to my car therefor should never had possesion of it in the first place let alone sell it.0 -
update the registration, put your plates on it, and have it towed to your garage, then get new locks for it? I don't know if that would work or not. 0 -
Hi,
I think it's "Statute" of limitations, not "statue". That's what I learned from watching Seinfeld re-runs anyway.
Machinist Mate 1st Class, United States Navy (Retired)0 -
Is there a local law school? Many of these schools have a legal aid clinic that MAY be interested in a case like this. Are you a Union member? They have legal plans as well. Do you have any other goodies you could swap? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ObiWan
One thing that may sound funny and you might want to run this by your lawyer......
If you got the car back yourself can you be charged with theft if you own a legal tender title for that VIN number? Title's don't expire. His would be fraudulent if you hold an earlier issued one wouldn't it?
Do some investigating and make sure the VIN's match and they didn't change it.
I had the pleasure of working with some Mexicans in New Mexico in the early 90's. One of the old timers was talking about how they would steal new cars...bury them in the New Mexican desert....and dig them up a few years later. Free Cars....Brand new.
If you were paid off by an insurance company for the cars theft:
www.sportscarmarket.com/articles/archives/809
The insurance company owns the car, not you.
Obiwan Thanks for the link on the shelby saga and to answer your question No I never ran that past a lawyer But believe me I thought about going down there and steeling it back because after all I do have a legal title dated almost 10years prior to the theft aproximitly 20 years prior to DE. issued title. one that buy the way does have the same vin as mine I checked and I have a copy of his title and registration.However the insurance card he used to obtain the registeration was for a 1965 mustang with adifferent vin.# And no I never collected any insurance money.It was uninsured at the time and I had to take it on the chin!0 -
"Statute of limitations" refers to the amount of time following the commission of a crime that a person can be charged with the offense. What your talking about here is simply recovering stolen property.
Also, NCIC is just database-not a system of laws. The five year time frame you're talking about only refers to their administrative policy on purging information to free up room in this database, not whether the item is still considered to be stolen. By NCIC policy an item can actually be re-entered in the database by the originating agency after it's been purged, provided the information is still valid.
Contact the LE agency where you originally reported the vehicle stolen and explain the situation. If their records indicate it has never been recovered it's still stolen property and they'll take it from there.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jgreen
Is there a local law school? Many of these schools have a legal aid clinic that MAY be interested in a case like this. Are you a Union member? They have legal plans as well. Do you have any other goodies you could swap?
Yes as a matter of fact I did. I wrote to Rutgers school of law in Camden NJ. briefly explaining the whole situation. I sugested it would be good practice for a student to research such a case. That was a couple months ago and still no response.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Txs
"Statute of limitations" refers to the amount of time following the commission of a crime that a person can be charged with the offense. What your talking about here is simply recovering stolen property.
Also, NCIC is just database-not a system of laws. The five year time frame you're talking about only refers to their administrative policy on purging information to free up room in this database, not whether the item is still considered to be stolen. By NCIC policy an item can actually be re-entered in the database by the originating agency after it's been purged, provided the information is still valid.
Contact the LE agency where you originally reported the vehicle stolen and explain the situation. If their records indicate it has never been recovered it's still stolen property and they'll take it from there.
TXS Thanks but that dont help .They are the ones who told me they couldent do anything more because the attorney general apparently told them that nobody could be charged with the theft because the statuet of limitations.They did re enter the vin into the ncic and are well aware of the whole thing after the gave me the report telling me ware the car is today.0 -
What the state's ttorney general says is that no person can be charged with this offense, not that the vehicle isn't still yours.
If it's entered in NCIC, you have the title showing you're the owner and the original reporting agency can confirm for them that they have a report of it being stolen, contact the local LE agency where the car's located and they'll recover it for you.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Txs
What the state's ttorney general says is that no person can be charged with this offense, not that the vehicle isn't still yours.
If it's entered in NCIC, you have the title showing you're the owner and the original reporting agency can confirm for them that they have a report of it being stolen, contact the local LE agency where the car's located and they'll recover it for you.
well you see I have already map quested the address on the DE. title and have visited that residence myself and there isent even a garage or anywhare they could hide it there and I did not see the car so Isuspect he is keeping at another residence I have for him in Maryland and thats a whole other state. even though it only about 20 miles away. When I went there I found he has a horse ranch with alot of land including several outbuildings and garages. whare should I go to police DE. or MD.?0 -
If this involves crossing state lines with stolen property, get the FBI involved. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by A J Christ
If this involves crossing state lines with stolen property, get the FBI involved.
I did. The FBI. are the ones who performed an off line search of the NCIC they went back 10 years looking for some proof that the police officer that bought the car hot claims he ran the vin.#s no proof of his aligations were found. Isent that considered purgery? makeing false claims to the police? Also US code Title 18 section 2312 Transportation of stolen motor vehicle and 2313 sale or receipt of stolen vehicles (in interstate commerce) are Federal offences. These guys can go to jail for 10 years not to mention the fines! The police officer can loose his job and be made to forfit his public employees pention to boot!!. The investigator I spoke to from the FBI. told me well you cant just walk in and press federal offences on sombody it has to be done by the local or State police and realistically Unless it deals with terrist or homeland security they probabally wont be able to do anything for me. Thats why I feel like its being swept under the rug. Everybody says were sorry but we dont do that here or you need to go there and file or your in the wrong jurisdiction. You see I have gotten absolutly noware with in the last 4 years . I just mailed a letter to Chief Justice Of the Delaware Supreme Court. and included a copy of my title and the other guys. I explained everything and told him if he wanted I would bring him the police reports in person. I have not herd anything back yet. I am actually planning on going down there as soon as I am sure ware Im going.0 -
You know you can file a Civil Case right?
Why not?0 -
"One of the bulldozers uncovered the decomposing body of an enemy soldier, complete with AK-47. I happened to be standing right there, looking down into the hole and pulled the AK out of the bog. 'Watch this, guys,' I said, 'and I will show you how a real infantry weapon works.' I pulled the bolt back and fired 30 rounds - the AK could have been cleaned that day rather than buried in glug for a year or so. That was the kind of weapon our soldiers needed, not the confidence-sapping M-16." 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ObiWan
You know you can file a Civil Case right?
Why not?
Yea I know thats what every tells me I should do .I went and spoke to anattorney and he said sure we can get your car back but depending on how long the case drags out it could easily cost more than the car is worth. I inquired about anybody who would consider doing it probono and nobody wants to work for free let alone stand up to the man. I tried legal aid and they dont do civil cases, Public defenders only defend poor criminals with out a job and because I work for a living I dont qualify. And unless you have ever tried being your own pro sa or do it without a lawyer. you will never truely understand how extreemly difficult it is to navigate the NJ. court system. I tried and I cant comprehend it. They expect you to have a degree in law the way they phrase everthing. and if you were to look at some of my spelling you would easily tell I wasent exactly an honor student. Plus it takes me forever to type something but I am pecking around better since I started righting these threads.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Frank Goad
quote:Originally posted by ObiWan
You know you can file a Civil Case right?
Why not?
Yea I know thats what every tells me I should do .I went and spoke to anattorney and he said sure we can get your car back but depending on how long the case drags out it could easily cost more than the car is worth. I inquired about anybody who would consider doing it probono and nobody wants to work for free let alone stand up to the man. I tried legal aid and they dont do civil cases, Public defenders only defend poor criminals with out a job and because I work for a living I dont qualify. And unless you have ever tried being your own pro sa or do it without a lawyer. you will never truely understand how extreemly difficult it is to navigate the NJ. court system. I tried and I cant comprehend it. They expect you to have a degree in law the way they phrase everthing. and if you were to look at some of my spelling you would easily tell I wasent exactly an honor student. Plus it takes me forever to type something but I am pecking around better since I started righting these threads.
Who knows maybe if I keep practicing my typing skills I'll get up to 5 or maybe 6 words a minute. ha ha ha I Laugh To Keep From Crying.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Txs
What the state's ttorney general says is that no person can be charged with this offense, not that the vehicle isn't still yours.
If it's entered in NCIC, you have the title showing you're the owner and the original reporting agency can confirm for them that they have a report of it being stolen, contact the local LE agency where the car's located and they'll recover it for you.
I think you hit the nail right on the head. I Just got off the phone with the local sheriffs dep. where the car phisicaly is and they assured me that the reporting agency must go down there and then they could assist them in what ever has to be done from there like obtaining search warrents etc. They said they couldent start a new investigation on another agencies case. So I called the origonal investigator and left a detailed message explaining how the ball is now back in his court.0 -
quote:Originally posted by OldNavyGuy
Hi,
I think it's "Statute" of limitations, not "statue". That's what I learned from watching Seinfeld re-runs anyway.
Machinist Mate 1st Class, United States Navy (Retired)
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quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
quote:Originally posted by OldNavyGuy
Hi,
I think it's "Statute" of limitations, not "statue". That's what I learned from watching Seinfeld re-runs anyway.
Machinist Mate 1st Class, United States Navy (Retired)
Thanks for the spelling lesson but I think THE OLD NAVY GUY beat you to it. In fact you guy sound like you know one another are you sure your not related OH and I used to be a machinist too back in the day.0
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