armed struggle in mexico
for those here who are not aware of the Zapatista movement in south mexico ill give a little info.
1994 in the state of chiapas an armed group of indigenious rose up against the mexican government. an act for wich they have been brutaly repressed. they would of been tottaly obliterated had it not been for the huge amount of support they received from grassroots organizing inside and outside of mexico.
these rebels occupied much of chiapas but eventually lost most of the cities but still hold on to much of the mountains and rural regions.
here is my question to you, ive heard a million times the Save Our State/ minute man crowd say about illegal immigrants "why dont they go back and change their country, instead of coming here to work"
do these same people then lend their support to the
libertarian socialist guerillas of the zapatista army? do you?
after all they do share allot of the libertarian views i have read on here.
especailly the way they encourage the peoplie living in the liberated territory to arm themselvs.
1994 in the state of chiapas an armed group of indigenious rose up against the mexican government. an act for wich they have been brutaly repressed. they would of been tottaly obliterated had it not been for the huge amount of support they received from grassroots organizing inside and outside of mexico.
these rebels occupied much of chiapas but eventually lost most of the cities but still hold on to much of the mountains and rural regions.
here is my question to you, ive heard a million times the Save Our State/ minute man crowd say about illegal immigrants "why dont they go back and change their country, instead of coming here to work"
do these same people then lend their support to the
libertarian socialist guerillas of the zapatista army? do you?
after all they do share allot of the libertarian views i have read on here.
especailly the way they encourage the peoplie living in the liberated territory to arm themselvs.
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The problem is that we, Americans, unreported by our Media and surely not discussed by our "leaders", send tax dollars by the bucket to Mexihole to protect the American interests (read: plants set up to avoid paying the Union employees ridiculous wages to do half-ass work).
D.0 -
quote:Originally posted by slackmason
for those here who are not aware of the Zapatista movement in south mexico ill give a little info.
1994 in the state of chiapas an armed group of indigenious rose up against the mexican government. an act for wich they have been brutaly repressed. they would of been tottaly obliterated had it not been for the huge amount of support they received from grassroots organizing inside and outside of mexico.
these rebels occupied much of chiapas but eventually lost most of the cities but still hold on to much of the mountains and rural regions.
here is my question to you, ive heard a million times the Save Our State/ minute man crowd say about illegal immigrants "why dont they go back and change their country, instead of coming here to work"
do these same people then lend their support to the
libertarian socialist guerillas of the zapatista army? do you?
after all they do share allot of the libertarian views i have read on here.
especailly the way they encourage the peoplie living in the liberated territory to arm themselvs.
If what you say is true, then if there is some way that a contribution of mine could be sure to reach the right people I would help. But don't expect offers of help from many others here. GB.com seems to be overrun with people who like to shoot off their mouth for free about their rights. But when asked to join various organizations, donate some funds for the resistance to run on, or even to donate some of their volunteer time, those same loudmouths will suddenly find countless reasons why the movement that is asking for their help DOES NOT DESERVE THEIR HELP.
Now as all of you mount your attack on me for posting this TRUTH, at least remember that there are people here on GB.com who ARE quilty of what I am charging and there are people here who are absolutely innocent of my charges.
You all know who you are, so now launch your attack.0 -
quote:Originally posted by AZEX
The problem is that we, Americans, unreported by our Media and surely not discussed by our "leaders", send tax dollars by the bucket to Mexihole to protect the American interests (read: plants set up to avoid paying the Union employees ridiculous wages to do half-ass work).
D.
not to mention the military support sent to the same part of the world to supress insurrection under the banner of "the war on drugs"
the Zapatistas have been accused of smuggling drugs. they have made it clear that drug smugglers are not welcome in their territory
and drug use in the zapatista territory is seriously looked down upon.0 -
quote:Originally posted by slackmason
for those here who are not aware of the Zapatista movement in south mexico ill give a little info.
1994 in the state of chiapas an armed group of indigenious rose up against the mexican government. an act for wich they have been brutaly repressed. they would of been tottaly obliterated had it not been for the huge amount of support they received from grassroots organizing inside and outside of mexico.
these rebels occupied much of chiapas but eventually lost most of the cities but still hold on to much of the mountains and rural regions.
here is my question to you, ive heard a million times the Save Our State/ minute man crowd say about illegal immigrants "why dont they go back and change their country, instead of coming here to work"
do these same people then lend their support to the
libertarian socialist guerillas of the zapatista army? do you?
after all they do share allot of the libertarian views i have read on here.
especailly the way they encourage the peoplie living in the liberated territory to arm themselvs.
If I was going to aid a foreign organization with an agenda, it sure as hell wouldn't be the zapatistas. They are nothing more or less than warmed-over communists and totalitarians committed to statist policies and control over everything possible: people, jobs, prices, wages, trade, capital, everything. To say they are anything close to libertarians is nothing short of a blatant falsehood and a perverse joke.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nemesisenforcer
If I was going to aid a foreign organization with an agenda, it sure as hell wouldn't be the zapatistas. They are nothing more or less than warmed-over communists and totalitarians committed to statist policies and control over everything possible: people, jobs, prices, wages, trade, capital, everything. To say they are anything close to libertarians is nothing short of a blatant falsehood and a perverse joke.
what do you know and where do you get your info?
having fallowed the progress of the zapatista cause for quite a few years now ive not once heard them express even a rudimentary desire. or even out of school comment about installing a statist government. and the only one of them that was ever a marxist is Subcomandante Marcos. and he is allways talking about how he has come to understand that marxism can not succeed because it doesn't allow for the different peoples to exist and interact acording to the traditions of their various cultures.0 -
Well, no matter who or what they are, if they are fighting against the present corrupt, incompetent, racist (anti-Gringo)and crooked Mexican government, I for one gotta love em'
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Well, no matter who or what they are, if they are fighting against the present corrupt, incompetent, racist (anti-Gringo)and crooked Mexican government, I for one gotta love em'
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
and it helps that they are honest freedom fighters too VIVA!0 -
quote:Originally posted by slackmason
quote:Originally posted by nemesisenforcer
If I was going to aid a foreign organization with an agenda, it sure as hell wouldn't be the zapatistas. They are nothing more or less than warmed-over communists and totalitarians committed to statist policies and control over everything possible: people, jobs, prices, wages, trade, capital, everything. To say they are anything close to libertarians is nothing short of a blatant falsehood and a perverse joke.
what do you know and where do you get your info?
having fallowed the progress of the zapatista cause for quite a few years now ive not once heard them express even a rudimentary desire. or even out of school comment about installing a statist government. and the only one of them that was ever a marxist is Subcomandante Marcos. and he is allways talking about how he has come to understand that marxism can not succeed because it doesn't allow for the different peoples to exist and interact acording to the traditions of their various cultures.
They came to prominence with their anti-NAFTA riots in the 90s. They're against free trade, the free movement of capital, goods, services, and other commodities across borders. They wanted the govt. of Mexico to "do something" for the poor and downtrodden that they claimed to represent: i.e. give them a handout. A socialist "journal" (read: worthless rag) is called "Z" in honor of the zapatistas. Don't sound like any libertarians I've ever heard of. They may have changed their tune, but I seriously doubt this particular leopard has changed its spots.0 -
nemesisenforcer
You hit the nail right on the head with these guys!
quote:If I was going to aid a foreign organization with an agenda, it sure as hell wouldn't be the zapatistas. They are nothing more or less than warmed-over communists and totalitarians committed to statist policies and control over everything possible: people, jobs, prices, wages, trade, capital, everything. To say they are anything close to libertarians is nothing short of a blatant falsehood and a perverse joke.
What do I know? Well for one thing I've gone to numerous meetings in LA to hear those SOB's speak. I used to work at radio station KPFK 90.7 and used to hear them BS all the time!
I've also fought them in street-battles with SOS (Save Our State) in LA. I've never seen a SOS'er wear a hood, or wave a hammer and sycil flag ( Can you say Soviet?)during a fight but I have seen the Zap-a-shi77ers do it every time!
quote:what do you know and where do you get your info?
having fallowed the progress of the zapatista cause for quite a few years now ive not once heard them express even a rudimentary desire. or even out of school comment about installing a statist government. and the only one of them that was ever a marxist is Subcomandante Marcos. and he is allways talking about how he has come to understand that marxism can not succeed because it doesn't allow for the different peoples to exist and interact acording to the traditions of their various cultures.
About 70% of their BS is about getting rid of the white man and reclaiming their indian empire so they can setup their little bit of commie heaven! Guess who they are going to practice their human sacrifices on this time around? Can we say all of the non-indian mexicans?
quote:and it helps that they are honest freedom fighters too VIVA!0 -
..God, not again. Dude, I have been from one end of Mexico to the other, lived there. Mexico is a third world crap hole period. The people in the interior are some of the nicest people I have met anywhere in this world, and Ive seen my fare share of it.
...The police and EVERY law enforcement agency in Meh-heco is corrupt, and it goes straight up to the most tippy top of the government.
The militray and Ferderales are corrupt but...they have no problem in making anyone dissappear and controlling the outcome of elections.
Go a few hundred miles into Mexicos interior on an election day...the Federales out number the voters almost. Those Federales
look very smart in their drabs and toting those full autos...convincing too.
...Give me a call when you get this aid working for the "rebels". I know they have a staff of accounts to make sure any money or weapons would be used for it's intended purpose, afterall, they are trustworthy rebels, yeah uh huh.
...Be sure and give me a call when you get your militia together too, for sure.
...Sounds just like the guy on here that has short man syndrome that loves to talk big and bad about how we need a revolution here...but he's a follower not a leader and is waiting for SOMEONE else to get the revelution started before he decides to "maybe" join in.
...Yet he wants to huff and puff on everyone for not doing anything to start the revolution...I think he was maybe neutered as a young child...since he has no nads...[;)]
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From what I have seen the Zappatistas will back whatever will be empowering to them. They are most concerned about their own lack of soverignty and self-determination in their own land. Much of their rhetoric has Marxist overtones, but much of wht they believe in is completely contradictory to traditional Marxism.
They are like Marxist in that they are against corporate power and economic imperialism. But unlike Marxists, they favor the local government over the national government and believe that a system baced on small individual landholdings is the key to independence.
They are all about maintaining their "culture" against the forces of globalization and modernity. To me, they cross the line and seem xenophobic and possibly a bit racist, however it is easy to understand their motivations if you know a bit about the history of Oxacca.0 -
quote:What do I know? Well for one thing I've gone to numerous meetings in LA to hear those SOB's speak. I used to work at radio station KPFK 90.7 and used to hear them BS all the time!
I've also fought them in street-battles with SOS (Save Our State) in LA. I've never seen a SOS'er wear a hood, or wave a hammer and sycil flag ( Can you say Soviet?)during a fight but I have seen the Zap-a-shi77ers do it every time!
dean,had you payed attention while working at kpfk you might have a clue of what you are talking about , the Zapatistas are an organized group in he VERY southernmost state in mexico. they are not clamoring over the border to live and work here , they are fighting in their homeland for a life of their own. to be able to support themselves. and to live in the type of communities they feel is best for them and their culture. they want international interests to stop siphoning their natural resources away from them so that those resources can be used to increase their own standard of living.
and as the hammer and sickle go, the zapatistas speak only for themselvs. but they attempt to organize all the oppressed people of mexico into a single movement to overthrow the corrupt abusive government . and this includes communists. there will allways be communists and they deserve their say as much as anyone, iether you believe in freedom of speach for everyone or you just dont believe in freedom of speach.
and come on man. human sacrifices you obviously know MIERDA about the zapatistas.
nemesisenforcer: they are not against trade. they do quite a bit of it them selves, Ie, zapatista coffee, their dolls and other art. and the only thing they want the Mexican government to do is go away, they arnt looking for handouts they are looking to take back for the indigenous what the indigenous earned. namely the "ejidos"
or land that was granted by the Mexican constitution to the indigenous to farm communally, this was what Emeliano Zapata fought for and to comply with NAFTA that article was deleted and they stole these lands from the poor indigenous and sold them to private ranchers and multinational corporations. and when all these subsistence farmers lost their land and their means of survival where do you think they went? to Guatemala? or Venezuela? no they went where the money is , the united states . that is except for the indigenous in the south western state of chiapas. they rose up in arms and demanded what was theirs
Colt: the things you mention are the EXACT things the zapatistas. and the oaxacenos of the APPO are trying to change. mexico is boiling under the surface.
nomadictao: at a glance it would seem that way, but they often have large "encuentro" gatherings where they invite people of all nations to come and teach them ways to improve their methods of doing things
and also to help teach thier ways of doing things to those that are interested, this is the anti thesis of xenophobia. so yea i know marcos rhetoric can be a little strong at times but their practices are far from xenophobic .0 -
The Z jerks are nothing more than Castro wannabes. Typical Central American tinpot dictator jrs. There is nothing in mexico worth my attention, much less my money. [:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Old Fool
The Z jerks are nothing more than Castro wannabes. Typical Central American tinpot dictator jrs. There is nothing in mexico worth my attention, much less my money. [:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!]
That is Classic xenophobia. seriously. most of you guys have given the subject verry little consideration and paint every group in broad generalities.
the Zapatista/oaxaca rebellions are offering mexico a chance to come out from under the controll of an opressive corrupt government
which will make mexico a decent place to live.
and hopefully THAT could help end the flow of displaced needy people across our borders.
so mabye a little less nay-saying and pessimism
i understand and dont expect any of you to become champions of their cause.
but i think we should be appreciative of people standing up to their government and saying "enough is enough". and taking the initiative to protect their families and communities from the herrasment of their government wich is more interested in selling the nations resources to foreign interests to fill their own pockets than raising the standard of living for the citizenry.
and THAT is the real story of the Zapatistas.
peace0 -
uh huh... the only thing wrong with Mexico is the government. Yeah.. 0 -
slamblow
There is not a week that goes by in which some zap-a shi77 is not on a speaking tour in LA asking for money. When I posted earlier I did not mean to imply that the zap-a-shi77s were quote:clamoring over the border to live and work here . What I did mean is that they come and speak and participate with every neo-commie group in LA and the SOB's do participate in street demonstrations/ brawls!
They do practice a neo-pagen religion and if you follow their political/religious rhetoric to its logical conclusion its just a matter of time before they pull out the old iron pots.
Dean0 -
I read about this all the time in SOF, but fear there may be some Godless Commies funding this thing... If I were the Rebel Commander I'd burn Mehico City to the ground first, than work the countryside. 0 -
What makes you think that these communist rebels would do anything other than oppress the Mexican people. Ever heard of a fellow named Castro?? Or Stalin??? Socialism does not work, nor does communism. Get a grip[:(!] 0 -
I got caught up in that uprising in, I think 1994 (years go by so quickly) we were driving a diesel pickup from the US to El Salvador and we were stopped by Mexican military at a roadblock and told we would have to go back. We told them we couldn't go back we had come 1400 miles. They called an officer and he said there was mortar fire on the road ahead and he couldn't clear us thru. We stuck to our story and he finally took the Pontius Pilate attitude and we proceeded down a road with cane growing on both sides. If I had had a US flag or white towel I would have been waving it like mad. We drove slowly and made it thru the zone he warned us about. No signs of any Zapatistas. Whether they let us thru or weren't there I'll never know. I was never so happy as when we saw Tapachula in the distance. 0 -
they are not communists, they make that clear. 0
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