When you shoot an animal, how come...?
If you get the shot just right, how come they sit down and then fall over? I was watching a hunting show the other day, and they were going after hogs. Can't remember if the guy was using a shotgun or center fire rifle, but every time he killed one, the hog would sit down first, then fall over in the direction of the bullet's path.
It was weird. It was like it took a second for the shot's force to knock it over. Anyway, in a non-morbid way, I think it's funny that they sit down first.
It was weird. It was like it took a second for the shot's force to knock it over. Anyway, in a non-morbid way, I think it's funny that they sit down first.
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If it were to knock it off it's feet, then you would not be able to see it (equal forces in opposite directions, gun physics geek stuff). If the hunter hit it and it dropped down, it was a good hit, not like some on t.v. who hit the animal and then it runs 200 yards and bleeds out. 0 -
that is why I like the .22-250 shot right behind the point of the shoulder about 1-1/2 inches below the spine, drops'em like a bad habit, no meat loss
if they all like that it is because it shocks the central nervous system and is more humane than a heart lung shot and it don't pump adrenaline into the meat0 -
quote:Originally posted by jabronij3
that is why I like the .22-250 shot right behind the point of the shoulder about 1-1/2 inches below the spine,
What part of the anatomy are you hitting there?[?]0 -
Often times when they fall down immediately it was a spine shot.
If you hit them in the heart or lungs they can and will run some distance. That does not mean it was not a good shot.
Please don't use the staged and edited hunting shows as a gauge of your hunting or shooting skills. They are there to sell stuff and are very unrealistic alot of the time.0 -
quote:Originally posted by guntech59
Please don't use the staged and edited hunting shows as a gauge of your hunting or shooting skills. They are there to sell stuff and are very unrealistic alot of the time.
Oh yea, I know and agree. I was just curious as to the physics and anatomy of that particular shot. With all due respect to the animals we kill, it's still kind of humorous to watch them sit, then fall over.0 -
I just watched on of those scenes on tv where the deer drops it's rear then falls over on it's side. It appeared to be a high hit toward the back of the lung area which would shock the spine enough to cause that type of reaction. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by jabronij3
it shocks the central nervous system and is more humane than a heart lung shot and it don't pump adrenaline into the meat
Not necessarily. I have seen deer remain alive for over thirty minutes after being spine shot (not by me). It sure takes them down fast but you may have to go quickly to administer a kill shot. Humane? I don't think so. Also, the spine is a much smaller target than the lungs.0 -
SHOT PLACEMENT! SHOT PLACEMENT! SHOT PLACEMENT!
(shooter's ability + equipments' capability = humane harvest)
I know that it was eventually lead to spine shots vs. heart/lung controversy. Last year, I shot at a mature MT muley doe feeding about 200 yards away using 180g in .300 WM. It was a heart/lung shot. She dropped at the spot. When I butchered her, I found out her spine snapped.
(C&P, huntingnet.com). The bottomline, every ethical bow and firearm hunter owes it to the animal he/she hunts to exercise good judgment and be knowledgeable of shot placement. There is simply no second guessing or chance shooting when it comes to placing an ethical shot. We owe it to the animal to dispatch it as quickly and humanely as we can and then utilize the animal once it is down. Take the time to mentally imagine different shot situations and shot angles so that when it comes time in that brief time frame to make the shot on that buck of a lifetime or doe for the freezer you will know exactly when and where to place your shot. Remember, it is all about shot placement...because there's no finer feeling than quickly recovering the animal you worked so hard to hunt.
Good luck!0 -
I have spine shot several deer (not on purpose), and none of them died immediately. They did fall over like hit with a hammer, and with all of them, I had to shoot in the head with my .22 pistol when I got to them. I always try for a double lung shot, right behind the front shoulder. They might run a little ways, but if hit right, are spraying blood like a water hose, and they won't run far. No meat damage either! 0 -
quote:Originally posted by guntech59
quote:Originally posted by jabronij3
it shocks the central nervous system and is more humane than a heart lung shot and it don't pump adrenaline into the meat
Not necessarily. I have seen deer remain alive for over thirty minutes after being spine shot (not by me). It sure takes them down fast but you may have to go quickly to administer a kill shot. Humane? I don't think so. Also, the spine is a much smaller target than the lungs.
why would you let an animal lie there for thirty minutes?[;)][}:)] sir, I have taken several whitetails with the shot that I described UNDER THE SPINE not in the spine and they fall dead as you watch thru the scope like you're watching someone else do it on tv in other words drt [dead right there] lung shots are great IF that's all you got or are archery hunting, alot of people use too much gun and all they're doing is punching right thru and the bullet does not expend all of it's energy in the animal i.e 22-250 243 308etc-whitetails and such
300 win mag 338 300 short mags-elk, moose etc0 -
A quick drop does not equal a quick kill. A paralyzed animal (spine shot) can live for a long time. A quick follow to the vitals is only humane. 0 -
When I squirrel hunt with my 300 win. mag. , they fall dead everytime(sometimes they flop over 6-8 times.). I never have to track them.[:D][:D][:D][:D] 0 -
Forkliftking: if they are flopping that much i think you should look at getting a larger gun.
I too have used my 280rem on squirrel. dang thing kept hiding on the back side of the tree no matter what way I walked, so I put the .22 away and smoked him right throught the tree trunk with the 280! [:D]0 -
Just a thought I couldn't help having. But if ethics dictate that any shot should be as humane as possible, that is, a quick acting killing shot, alleviating unnecessary suffering....what does one arrive at when following that concept out to it's logical conclusion?
Sahagan0 -
quote:Originally posted by jabronij3
quote:Originally posted by guntech59
quote:Originally posted by jabronij3
it shocks the central nervous system and is more humane than a heart lung shot and it don't pump adrenaline into the meat
Not necessarily. I have seen deer remain alive for over thirty minutes after being spine shot (not by me). It sure takes them down fast but you may have to go quickly to administer a kill shot. Humane? I don't think so. Also, the spine is a much smaller target than the lungs.
why would you let an animal lie there for thirty minutes?[;)][}:)] sir, I have taken several whitetails with the shot that I described UNDER THE SPINE not in the spine and they fall dead as you watch thru the scope like you're watching someone else do it on tv in other words drt [dead right there] lung shots are great IF that's all you got or are archery hunting, alot of people use too much gun and all they're doing is punching right thru and the bullet does not expend all of it's energy in the animal i.e 22-250 243 308etc-whitetails and such
300 win mag 338 300 short mags-elk, moose etc
I did not shoot it! It was about 500 yards across a farm field from me and I was looking through my binoculars. I was actually watching when the shot was taken.
Your "under the spine" shot is just shocking the central nervous system and may or may not kill the animal.
I also know people that swear by the neck shot. That's not where I was taught to shoot, so I don't.
I was directing my comments to calltuku, a new hunter, who seems to be unsure of shot placement. My advice is to shoot for the biggest target, with more room for error. That is sound advice.
As far as where you want to shoot, that's your business if you have the skill and equipment to do it. Not for me though. My shots are usually in the woods and fairly close while I'm standing or kneeling. Not good positions for anything but a shot at the biggest target.0 -
quote:Originally posted by SahaganBeta
Just a thought I couldn't help having. But if ethics dictate that any shot should be as humane as possible, that is, a quick acting killing shot, alleviating unnecessary suffering....what does one arrive at when following that concept out to it's logical conclusion?
Sahagan
Using a tactical nuke?[?]0 -
[:D]How would you eat it? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by guntech59
[:D]How would you eat it?
It's about eating?!?[:0][?]0 -
"that is why I like the .22-250 shot right behind the point of the shoulder about 1-1/2 inches below the spine, drops'em like a bad habit, no meat loss"
I believe you are talking about what we call the "high shoulder shot."
At any rate, the high shoulder shot is right in the middle of the shoulder, about 5 inches down from the top of the deer's back.
As you can see from this drawing of the deer's anatomy, to take the high shoulder shot, you would go straight up from the middle of the front leg. When you are about five inches below the top of the deer's back, you fire. You are aiming at the bottom of the spine. With good soft nose ammo, you will have about a 2 inch wound channel once you go through that shoulder. You will hit the spine which paralyzes the deer and makes him drop in his tracks. You also will hit the big artery which will cause unconsciousness in about ten seconds and death in about twenty seconds.
You also will hit both lungs which also causes death in ten to fifteen seconds. As the bullet goes through the shoulder blade and spine, bone shrapnel will fly off, like a hand grenade, and cause further damage to vital organs, might even take out the heart.
I have taken the high shoulder shot about ten times and it worked like a charm every time. The deer drops in his tracks and is, in effect, Dead Right There.
The disadvantage of the high shoulder shot is there is not as much margin for error as the lung shot.
If you hit 3 inches high on the high shoulder shot, you will just hit muscle above the spine. This will shock the deer and make him collapse. Then he will get up and run away, with a big bullet wound in his back.
I only take the high shoulder shot on a motionless deer at less than 60 yards. I like it when it is getting dark and I don't want to blood track.
As you can see the lung shot gives a much larger margin for error. This is what a rookie should aim for, and this is the shot I have made on 85 percent of the deer I have killed, including the big buck I killed last week. Got both lungs and heart, he ran 100 yards but left a great blood trail.0 -
just as important, is bullet type selected for quick clean kills! 0 -
quote:Originally posted by guntech59
quote:Originally posted by jabronij3
quote:Originally posted by guntech59
quote:Originally posted by jabronij3
it shocks the central nervous system and is more humane than a heart lung shot and it don't pump adrenaline into the meat
Not necessarily. I have seen deer remain alive for over thirty minutes after being spine shot (not by me). It sure takes them down fast but you may have to go quickly to administer a kill shot. Humane? I don't think so. Also, the spine is a much smaller target than the lungs.
why would you let an animal lie there for thirty minutes?[;)][}:)] sir, I have taken several whitetails with the shot that I described UNDER THE SPINE not in the spine and they fall dead as you watch thru the scope like you're watching someone else do it on tv in other words drt [dead right there] lung shots are great IF that's all you got or are archery hunting, alot of people use too much gun and all they're doing is punching right thru and the bullet does not expend all of it's energy in the animal i.e 22-250 243 308etc-whitetails and such
300 win mag 338 300 short mags-elk, moose etc
I did not shoot it! It was about 500 yards across a farm field from me and I was looking through my binoculars. I was actually watching when the shot was taken.
Your "under the spine" shot is just shocking the central nervous system and may or may not kill the animal.
I also know people that swear by the neck shot. That's not where I was taught to shoot, so I don't.
I was directing my comments to calltuku, a new hunter, who seems to be unsure of shot placement. My advice is to shoot for the biggest target, with more room for error. That is sound advice.
As far as where you want to shoot, that's your business if you have the skill and equipment to do it. Not for me though. My shots are usually in the woods and fairly close while I'm standing or kneeling. Not good positions for anything but a shot at the biggest target.
I understand you did not shoot it that is why I put the little blinky guy ther with the devil guy, just ribbing you a little and I do agree if you're not sure you can make the shot I described [which is easier with a rifle that dont kick a dip of snuff right outta ya mouth]PLEASE DO NOT TRY IT! the lung shot is far better for the less experienced as you stated and please don't shoot these animals in the shoulder to "break'em down" that IS wasteful0 -
quote:Originally posted by cowdoc
just as important, is bullet type selected for quick clean kills!
I'm using 350 grain depleted uranium. Is that OK?[:D][8D]0 -
I usually sneak up behind them and stick the muzzle of my .44 magnum at the base of their skull and pull the trigger. Any animal. Squirrel, bear, elk, chickadee, you name it. Just trying to be humane and make sure they don't suffer, ya know. Of course, it takes a little more skill than using one of them big fifty-ought sixes that'll kill 'em from 2 miles away, but I just don't like tracking a animal. ever step they take is just more unnecessary suffering. How'd you like to show up in heaven and there's that moose you shot in the spine that dragged himself 150 yards on his front little feet, crying and bleeding all the way? Not me. I'm gonna dispatch 'em quickly and humanely. 0 -
The best shot I have used on deer is where the neck and shoulder join.I have head shot them and they crash on the spot but kick for a few seconds. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by forkliftking
When I squirrel hunt with my 300 win. mag. , they fall dead everytime(sometimes they flop over 6-8 times.). I never have to track them.[:D][:D][:D][:D]
ROFLMAO[:D], with my .22-250 there is not much left to fall over.0 -
Worried about a spine shot? Ah, heck, just slit their throat with your knife. [}:)] 0 -
mid shoulder shot always drops them DRT,...lung will often make for a short run. Contrary to some posted info, a high shot just under the spine with an appropriate sized chambering and bullet construction, will knock them DRT also. I have never had the flopping around take place for more than a few seconds,...even when hitting them a little farther back than planned[B)]
A bullet of too heavy of a construction for the chambering, will quite often pencil through and not expend much energy. It takes properly matching the bullets construction, to the size game it will impact. A whitetail is a thin skinned animal that really doesn't require much to harvest, they will not provide enough resistance to cause the destabilization and expansion of many bullets made for larger/tougher game. Most often, a mid sized bullet for most bore dia's, and even a light bullet for the larger dia's, will perform better on deer than the heavier pills. It's called sectional density,..and it always proves correct.0 -
I often sit down before I tip over ....... [8D] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by EhlerDave
I often sit down before I tip over ....... [8D]
Beer time here! [:D]0
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