Should naturalized citizenship be revoked??
A Muslim friend of mine believes that the US government should be one and the same with religion - Islam. He fully believes in a secular government with religious leaders deciding everything. So my question is this - he is a naturalized US citizen - should his US citizenship be revoked?
He must have lied during his Q/A since his beliefs go against the constitution.
As a funny aside - He has 5 daughters and no sons - is this a sign from "Allah"?
He must have lied during his Q/A since his beliefs go against the constitution.
As a funny aside - He has 5 daughters and no sons - is this a sign from "Allah"?
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you should turn him in as a possible terrorist. 0 -
Some friend 0 -
So there is no more freedom of religion and no more free speech? What he wants would be anathema to me, but so it the Klan and any form of bigotry, and any attempts to eliminate the rights of citizens. 0 -
If he is a true friend, he will not mind when you slap him upside the head for such a stupid idea.
Don0 -
quote:Originally posted by slipgate
So my question is this - he is a naturalized US citizen - should his US citizenship be revoked?
Yes, and then deported. To Gitmo.0 -
He is a citizen now and entitled to his own opinions no matter how revolting we might feel about them. Unless the muslim population should somehow become a major political power and gain a majority in our government I wouldn't be worried. Europe on the other hand had better watch out. I don't think it will be long (probably not in my lifetime) that we will see some European countries become governed by muslims. 0 -
He's entitled to his opinions - he's as much an American as those who advocate arming up for the inevitable conflict with our government. I can't say I care much for his opinion, but if unpopular opinions were ever treason, we'd all be traitors sooner or later. 0 -
quote:He fully believes in a secular government
So do I.
Secular, Adjective:
"of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests."
We have a (mostly) secular government already- the constitution is entirely secular, the only deviation we have from a secular government comes from when we elect religious people whose religion affects the way they run the government.
A secular government is the exact opposite of a religious Theocracy.
Aside from your mistake using secular, I agree with you in spirit.
He was supposed to take an oath to the constitution, wasn't he?
His beliefs are clearly against it, and I doubt his views changes since becoming a citizen, so if he believed this when he took the oath, that should invalidate his oath, and invalidate his citizenship. If he came to this belief after becoming a citizen- well, people can believe whatever they want, without loosing their citizenship, I just don't think he should have been a citizen in the first place.0 -
Demonstrate to him the glory of American Freedom, by acknowledging his opinion, and explaining that it's a valuable part of what makes America the greatest country on Earth....
...then retort by taking a copy of the Quran, refer to it as the Poo-Ran or Queer-Ran, ripping out a few pages of it and take a large dump on it, then wipe your butt with the pages you've torn out. After that, further demonstrate the wonder of Free Expression by explaining that Mohammed was a child-raping druggie who stole his brother's wife and is now blowing goats in Hell.
FREEDOM FOREVER.
D.0 -
I have not met one Muslim that really worships US soil. I would like to send them all back on a ship with a leaky hull. 0 -
Just tell him he has the right to believe anything he wants. That that is what makes this country greater than any Shiitehole country that is run by religious fools whom are followed by stupid son's of female jackels. 0 -
My Father's a naturalized citizen. He leans closer to most of the members on this board on the issues than I do. So 'should naturalized citizenship be revoked?' NO.
Should there be a mechanism by which we can revoke the citizenship of naturalized citizens? I think only if it can be shown that the naturalized citizen committed fraud during the naturalization process, should his citizenship be revoked.
I'll agree with the others who said that your Muslim friend has beliefs that are patently offensive, but if he was naturalized and committed no fraud in the process, then he's entitled to his opinion as a citizen. He also needs to understand that his opinion is absolutely untenable in this country because our constitution stipulates separation of church and state....and I don't care how he wants to talk about a secular government with religious leaders deciding everything that gets done--that's just a slight of hand. Separation of church and state is a pretty straightforward concept.
And yes, he needs to be able to acknowledge your right to take a dump on the Koran, just as I do....even though I as a non-Muslim think that to do such a thing is an incendiary action and in very poor taste.0 -
that's why it would be so profound.
How better to show, that Freedom for others means that one must endure their Right to Free Expression even if they are particularly offended, or for that matter, if said expression is SPECIFICALLY designed to offend them personally.
I havent seen anything in the Constitution that disallows "Incendiary" anything.
D.0 -
SOS spit on a scroll
Many americans belive this is a christian country and should be rulled by christians.0 -
I think treason against the Constitution is enough reason to revoke citizenship whether naturalized or born to!
Allen0 -
quote:Originally posted by AZEX
that's why it would be so profound.
How better to show, that Freedom for others means that one must endure their Right to Free Expression even if they are particularly offended, or for that matter, if said expression is SPECIFICALLY designed to offend them personally.
I havent seen anything in the Constitution that disallows "Incendiary" anything.
D.
Nope, nothing in our constitution disallows incendiary action and I tried to make that clear. If you want to do it, I claim you have the right to do it. I still think it's in poor taste to s**t on another person's religion, and I'm entitled to that opinion.0 -
quote:Originally posted by minitruck83
I think treason against the Constitution is enough reason to revoke citizenship whether naturalized or born to!
Allen
Define 'treason against the Constitution.' Should all cases that are brought before the Supreme Court in which the plaintiff fails to prevail result in revocation of citizenship for the complainant?
Because what else is treason against the Constitution, other than a failed case before the Supreme Court?0 -
quote:A Muslim friend of mine believes that the US government should be one and the same with religion - Islam. He fully believes in a secular government with religious leaders deciding everything. So my question is this - he is a naturalized US citizen - should his US citizenship be revoked?Screw him...he shouldn't be here as a citizen. That is a big part of our country's problem. We keep letting more and more foreigners in and grant them citizenship. Do you honestly think that this helps the American people? No... it doesn't, it hurts us and our country. I mean let's be honest here. It's not to hard to figure out. And I'm not saying that this is the only reason, but it is definitely one of the reasons. Sorry if it's offensive to some of you...but it's the truth. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by watrulookinat
quote:A Muslim friend of mine believes that the US government should be one and the same with religion - Islam. He fully believes in a secular government with religious leaders deciding everything. So my question is this - he is a naturalized US citizen - should his US citizenship be revoked?Screw him...he shouldn't be here as a citizen. That is a big part of our country's problem. We keep letting more and more foreigners in and grant them citizenship. Do you honestly think that this helps the American people? No... it doesn't, it hurts us and our country. I mean let's be honest here. It's not to hard to figure out. And I'm not saying that this is the only reason, but it is definitely one of the reasons. Sorry if it's offensive to some of you...but it's the truth.
We probably do need to look at the standards we require to naturalize a citizen. We need to do that because under our own laws, once a person is a citizen then they have the rights of a citizen.0 -
quote:Originally posted by spurgemastur
quote:Originally posted by minitruck83
I think treason against the Constitution is enough reason to revoke citizenship whether naturalized or born to!
Allen
Define 'treason against the Constitution.' Should all cases that are brought before the Supreme Court in which the plaintiff fails to prevail result in revocation of citizenship for the complainant?
Because what else is treason against the Constitution, other than a failed case before the Supreme Court?
Is that something like "define sex"? [:)]
Should I have said "towards"?
Example
Attempts by government officals (including the Supreme Court) to destroy the sovereignity of the USA along with appointments to the SC of judges who use subversion of the original intent of the Constitution AS WRITTEN (writ?) to accomplish private or partisan agenda's. To me that is a treasonable offense and a direct attack on the Constitution and by default our system of government. Deserving at the least revocation of citizenship and deportation.
I may be wrong but its my .02 worth.
Allen0 -
quote:Originally posted by minitruck83
quote:Originally posted by spurgemastur
quote:Originally posted by minitruck83
I think treason against the Constitution is enough reason to revoke citizenship whether naturalized or born to!
Allen
Define 'treason against the Constitution.' Should all cases that are brought before the Supreme Court in which the plaintiff fails to prevail result in revocation of citizenship for the complainant?
Because what else is treason against the Constitution, other than a failed case before the Supreme Court?
Is that something like "define sex"? [:)]
Should I have said "towards"?
Example
Attempts by government officals (including the Supreme Court) to destroy the sovereignity of the USA along with appointments to the SC of judges who use subversion of the original intent of the Constitution AS WRITTEN (writ?) to accomplish private or partisan agenda's. To me that is a treasonable offense and a direct attack on the Constitution and by default our system of government. Deserving at the least revocation of citizenship and deportation.
I may be wrong but its my .02 worth.
Allen
I guess it's fine enough to know what you're talking about, but if you want a good legal framework, you also need to be able to define what you're talking about.
Slick Willie had a field day with that one.
That doesn't mean it's ok to decline to define what you're talking about. So what is treason against the Constitution? And definition by example doesn't usually work so good. Let's get a good definition.
What I read in your response is a few things that really ticked you off. Still, they don't constitute a good definition of treason against the Constitution.
Help me out if I'm missing something, but I'd like you to define BY DEFINITION what you're talking about.0 -
No.
Tell your friend that if he wants a country where it is ruled by religious leaders to decide everything to take his pick of countries in the M.E. and to move there. They have already ruined their own countries, hands off ours.0 -
Don't we have the power to revoke citizenship under certain circumstances? I could swear that's been done before.
Saying that, the man is entitled to his opinion. We may not like it, but I'd hate for my citizenship to be revoked because I believe, for instance, that abortion is disgusting, there should be a gun in every home, we should be deporting illegals as soon as we find them, and other unpopular ideas.
Now, if he were to actually conspire to do something Bad, then he should be arrested, tried, and have his citizenship revoked.0 -
quote:We probably do need to look at the standards we require to naturalize a citizen. We need to do that because under our own laws, once a person is a citizen then they have the rights of a citizen.It's simple, We just need to stop letting foreigners in and giving them citizenship. 0 -
casocks....you best relearn history. our constitution ISNT secular.
go back and read up on the moral law and who wrote the constitution. need i post some pictures of how congress started every meeting?
the reason the constitution appears secular is because the people in which it governed turned away from GOD and his trust and pursued secular interests, and slowly filtered out GOD in every day government.
our constitution is very much spiritual and GOD GIVEN thru GOD FEARING men....from a time when the world feared us because of our allegence WITH THE GOD.
the reason usa is such a BLESSED country is because of our obiedience to GOD. the longer we stray, the less blessing we will have. 17% of usa is christian. there is no doubt the other 83% are recveiving the blessings of God from the 17% who pray for Gods guidance, mercy, andwho enforce God inspired laws, but just dont admit or acknowledge it.
"God causes the rain to fall on the righteous and the unrighteous."
the problem is simple, people are coming to america but not becoming americans. they are dragging their laws and governments ideas here and expecting to set up camp, instead of becoming americans and following american law and customs. face it, every one of us has immigrant roots.0 -
we enjoy many freedoms - treason and advocating the overthrough of the government are not among them - when will the world be done with the muslim? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by watrulookinat
quote:We probably do need to look at the standards we require to naturalize a citizen. We need to do that because under our own laws, once a person is a citizen then they have the rights of a citizen.It's simple, We just need to stop letting foreigners in and giving them citizenship.
Yeah, we sure screwed up letting in Einstein, Von Braun, Rand, Marconi, Tesla, Swartzenegger (sp?), Kissinger, and MAYBE a few others....[;)][:p][:p]0 -
I am not even going to reply on this one, I got banned from other forums stating my opinion about this muslim matter 0 -
Good read bobski.. and it shall pour down like Hail for those who go against America. 0 -
quote:the problem is simple, people are coming to america but not becoming americans. they are dragging their laws and governments ideas here and expecting to set up camp, instead of becoming americans and following american law and customs. face it, every one of us has immigrant roots.Very well said. 0
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