Mountain Lion Attack....UPDATE
I'm sure folks will be holding a candlelight vigil mourning the death of the mountain lion also.......[:(!][:(!]
rider
UPDATE:
Here is more info from the shooter....Jeremy Kocar
Only stars and the glimmer from a 140-pound mountain lion's fierce gaze provided light in the midnight darkness of Boulder County's foothills for Jeremy Kocar to cock and aim his rifle.
Still, Kocar said his eyes adjusted "quick enough" when the cougar looked up from the puppy in its clutches.
"I took the shot, and that was the end of it," said Kocar, 31, who now finds himself facing possible criminal charges for shooting the adult male lion.
It's been three days since Kocar said he saved his family's Rottweiler-Labrador mix, Duke - and possibly his own life - by shooting the lion that attacked the 8-month-old puppy. But, Kocar said, it will be much longer before he's able to get over the moment he stared down the cat as it crouched in a "pouncing" position.
"That's one thing you don't ever want," Kocar said Monday while standing outside the trailer that he, his wife and their two children are living in near Nederland. "You don't want to come face-to-face with a lion."
Jeremy Kocar, a Wisconsin man temporarily living near Nederland, sits with 8-month-old Duke, who was mauled by a mountain lion near Kocar's trailer early Friday. Kocar shot and killed the cougar, and now may face criminal charges.
The Colorado Division of Wildlife confiscated the cougar that Kocar killed at approximately 1:30 a.m. Friday in a clearing east of Gross Reservoir. Wildlife officers are reviewing the shooting, and DOW spokeswoman Jennifer Churchill said her agency is "investigating what will happen to the person who shot the lion."
"We do have laws that allow people to protect their safety and their livestock," Churchill said. "But this is the tricky gray area of it being a dog."According to Colorado law, it's legal "to trap, kill or otherwise dispose of bears, mountain lions or dogs in situations when it is necessary to prevent them from inflicting death or injury to livestock or human life."
That's exactly what Kocar said he was doing when the lion tucked Duke under his belly, as if "it was protecting its kill," and turned its attention to Kocar.
"I'm from Wisconsin - and we take care of things there," Kocar said.
Close encounters
There have been numerous mountain lion sightings, attacks and encounters in Boulder County this year.
Here are some:
Past week: Numerous residents living in the Nederland area reported dogs being attacked or killed by a mountain lion.
Sept. 27: A Nederland couple's 60-pound Australian shepherd was killed by a mountain lion.
Sept. 12-13: Multiple people reported seeing a mountain lion wandering in the area of 13th Street and Columbine Avenue in Boulder.
Sept. 2: A mountain lion killed a 15-year-old miniature horse seven miles west on Magnolia Road.
Aug. 29: A family's 7-year-old yellow Labrador was attacked by a mountain lion in northwest Boulder.
May 24: Wildlife officers killed a mountain lion in northwest Boulder after a resident reported the cougar in his backyard.
May 13: A couple's 16-pound cat, Big Guy, was killed by a mountain lion outside their home in the 3100 block of 11th Street.
April 12: Wildlife officers tranquilized a mountain lion caught feasting on a deer in north Boulder, in the 500 block of Kalmia Avenue.
Kocar, his wife, Angela Kocar, 25, and their children - Alena, 4, and Jacob, 8 months - are living out of a trailer parked in a mountain clearing near Nederland while they work on a wildfire mitigation project for West Range Reclamation.
Until the attack, the Kocars said they had heard little about mountain lions, and every night they'd chain their two puppies - Duke and Taffy, a blue heeler - outside the trailer.
They won't do that anymore, Angela Kocar said.
She was the first person to hear - and then see - the lion's teeth around her dog's neck early Friday. As her husband slept, Angela Kocar said she heard a growl and a yelp that she thought was a raccoon.
She grabbed a flashlight, pulled on her shoes and ran out to break up the fight. What she saw, though, was far from a small-animal scrap.
"I came within 10 feet of the cat that was standing there with the dog in its mouth," she said. "I froze and dropped the flashlight."
Her husband, annoyed that the dog had woken him up, came out and picked up the light. Angela Kocar said she ran inside to be with her children and to watch from the trailer's window.
Jeremy Kocar said he confronted the lion, shouting and waving his arms in the air. The lion responded like something out of a "wildlife documentary," he said.
"He was thrashing the dog in its mouth," he said.
Angela Kocar added: "He was whipping the dog around trying to get it off the chain."
"He was not leaving here without the dog," she said. "And he wasn't afraid of us at all."
After her husband shot the lion, Angela Kocar drove five miles to where she could get reception on her cell phone and called 911. Jeremy Kocar stayed at the trailer and attended to the dog that he thought was dead.
He said he cautiously walked up to the motionless lion and lifted its paw off the puppy.
"I said, 'Come on, Duke,' but I thought he had snapped his spine," he said.
When the dog leapt to his feet, Jeremy Kocar said he was stunned.
"He jumped up, shook himself off, and his tail was waggin'," he said.
Duke has been treated for head-to-toe bruises and multiple slashes. He has 50 stitches, and Angela Kocar said, "The vet said he was damn lucky."
Since the shooting, the couple said about 20 neighbors have stopped by say "thank you," making the Kocars feel like "little celebrities." Numerous area residents said they suspect the slain lion is responsible for killing a man's pet miniature horse Sept. 2 and a couple's 60-pound Australian shepherd Sept. 27, and attacking several other pets in the neighborhood.
Division of Wildlife officers said lab tests on the lion might provide clues as to whether the animal can be linked to other attacks. Wildlife officers in September tried to capture and euthanize a mountain lion after it killed a miniature horse, but traps weren't successful in snagging the cat.
Angela Kocar said her neighbors "have been living in terror up here."
"So we've had nothing but gratitude," she said. "One woman brought Duke homemade dog treats and a turkey loaf."
Neighbor Scott Johnson, 46, said it's sad such a beautiful animal was killed.
"But I feel safe now," he said.
BOULDER, Colo. - Colorado wildlife officials Monday were considering whether a man will face charges in the shooting of a mountain lion that was attacking a puppy.
The shooting happened about 1:30 a.m. Friday in a home near Gross Reservoir west of Boulder, Colorado Division of Wildlife spokeswoman Jennifer Churchill said.
People inside the home heard the attack on one of three dogs that were chained outside the house, went outside, and started yelling at the adult mountain lion. That's when the lion headed toward the armed man, who shot the cat.
"We're investigating what will happen to the person who shot the lion," Churchill told the Daily Camera. "We do have laws that allow people to protect their safety and the their livestock. But this is the tricky gray area of it being a dog."
The puppy was expected to survive. Wildlife officials confiscated the mountain lion.
At least two other mountain lion attacks have been reported in the area, including the Sept. 2 death of a pet miniature horse in the Nederland area southwest of Boulder and the death of a 60-pound Australian shepherd in Nederland on Sept. 27.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,300499,00.html
rider
UPDATE:
Here is more info from the shooter....Jeremy Kocar
Only stars and the glimmer from a 140-pound mountain lion's fierce gaze provided light in the midnight darkness of Boulder County's foothills for Jeremy Kocar to cock and aim his rifle.
Still, Kocar said his eyes adjusted "quick enough" when the cougar looked up from the puppy in its clutches.
"I took the shot, and that was the end of it," said Kocar, 31, who now finds himself facing possible criminal charges for shooting the adult male lion.
It's been three days since Kocar said he saved his family's Rottweiler-Labrador mix, Duke - and possibly his own life - by shooting the lion that attacked the 8-month-old puppy. But, Kocar said, it will be much longer before he's able to get over the moment he stared down the cat as it crouched in a "pouncing" position.
"That's one thing you don't ever want," Kocar said Monday while standing outside the trailer that he, his wife and their two children are living in near Nederland. "You don't want to come face-to-face with a lion."
Jeremy Kocar, a Wisconsin man temporarily living near Nederland, sits with 8-month-old Duke, who was mauled by a mountain lion near Kocar's trailer early Friday. Kocar shot and killed the cougar, and now may face criminal charges.
The Colorado Division of Wildlife confiscated the cougar that Kocar killed at approximately 1:30 a.m. Friday in a clearing east of Gross Reservoir. Wildlife officers are reviewing the shooting, and DOW spokeswoman Jennifer Churchill said her agency is "investigating what will happen to the person who shot the lion."
"We do have laws that allow people to protect their safety and their livestock," Churchill said. "But this is the tricky gray area of it being a dog."According to Colorado law, it's legal "to trap, kill or otherwise dispose of bears, mountain lions or dogs in situations when it is necessary to prevent them from inflicting death or injury to livestock or human life."
That's exactly what Kocar said he was doing when the lion tucked Duke under his belly, as if "it was protecting its kill," and turned its attention to Kocar.
"I'm from Wisconsin - and we take care of things there," Kocar said.
Close encounters
There have been numerous mountain lion sightings, attacks and encounters in Boulder County this year.
Here are some:
Past week: Numerous residents living in the Nederland area reported dogs being attacked or killed by a mountain lion.
Sept. 27: A Nederland couple's 60-pound Australian shepherd was killed by a mountain lion.
Sept. 12-13: Multiple people reported seeing a mountain lion wandering in the area of 13th Street and Columbine Avenue in Boulder.
Sept. 2: A mountain lion killed a 15-year-old miniature horse seven miles west on Magnolia Road.
Aug. 29: A family's 7-year-old yellow Labrador was attacked by a mountain lion in northwest Boulder.
May 24: Wildlife officers killed a mountain lion in northwest Boulder after a resident reported the cougar in his backyard.
May 13: A couple's 16-pound cat, Big Guy, was killed by a mountain lion outside their home in the 3100 block of 11th Street.
April 12: Wildlife officers tranquilized a mountain lion caught feasting on a deer in north Boulder, in the 500 block of Kalmia Avenue.
Kocar, his wife, Angela Kocar, 25, and their children - Alena, 4, and Jacob, 8 months - are living out of a trailer parked in a mountain clearing near Nederland while they work on a wildfire mitigation project for West Range Reclamation.
Until the attack, the Kocars said they had heard little about mountain lions, and every night they'd chain their two puppies - Duke and Taffy, a blue heeler - outside the trailer.
They won't do that anymore, Angela Kocar said.
She was the first person to hear - and then see - the lion's teeth around her dog's neck early Friday. As her husband slept, Angela Kocar said she heard a growl and a yelp that she thought was a raccoon.
She grabbed a flashlight, pulled on her shoes and ran out to break up the fight. What she saw, though, was far from a small-animal scrap.
"I came within 10 feet of the cat that was standing there with the dog in its mouth," she said. "I froze and dropped the flashlight."
Her husband, annoyed that the dog had woken him up, came out and picked up the light. Angela Kocar said she ran inside to be with her children and to watch from the trailer's window.
Jeremy Kocar said he confronted the lion, shouting and waving his arms in the air. The lion responded like something out of a "wildlife documentary," he said.
"He was thrashing the dog in its mouth," he said.
Angela Kocar added: "He was whipping the dog around trying to get it off the chain."
"He was not leaving here without the dog," she said. "And he wasn't afraid of us at all."
After her husband shot the lion, Angela Kocar drove five miles to where she could get reception on her cell phone and called 911. Jeremy Kocar stayed at the trailer and attended to the dog that he thought was dead.
He said he cautiously walked up to the motionless lion and lifted its paw off the puppy.
"I said, 'Come on, Duke,' but I thought he had snapped his spine," he said.
When the dog leapt to his feet, Jeremy Kocar said he was stunned.
"He jumped up, shook himself off, and his tail was waggin'," he said.
Duke has been treated for head-to-toe bruises and multiple slashes. He has 50 stitches, and Angela Kocar said, "The vet said he was damn lucky."
Since the shooting, the couple said about 20 neighbors have stopped by say "thank you," making the Kocars feel like "little celebrities." Numerous area residents said they suspect the slain lion is responsible for killing a man's pet miniature horse Sept. 2 and a couple's 60-pound Australian shepherd Sept. 27, and attacking several other pets in the neighborhood.
Division of Wildlife officers said lab tests on the lion might provide clues as to whether the animal can be linked to other attacks. Wildlife officers in September tried to capture and euthanize a mountain lion after it killed a miniature horse, but traps weren't successful in snagging the cat.
Angela Kocar said her neighbors "have been living in terror up here."
"So we've had nothing but gratitude," she said. "One woman brought Duke homemade dog treats and a turkey loaf."
Neighbor Scott Johnson, 46, said it's sad such a beautiful animal was killed.
"But I feel safe now," he said.
BOULDER, Colo. - Colorado wildlife officials Monday were considering whether a man will face charges in the shooting of a mountain lion that was attacking a puppy.
The shooting happened about 1:30 a.m. Friday in a home near Gross Reservoir west of Boulder, Colorado Division of Wildlife spokeswoman Jennifer Churchill said.
People inside the home heard the attack on one of three dogs that were chained outside the house, went outside, and started yelling at the adult mountain lion. That's when the lion headed toward the armed man, who shot the cat.
"We're investigating what will happen to the person who shot the lion," Churchill told the Daily Camera. "We do have laws that allow people to protect their safety and the their livestock. But this is the tricky gray area of it being a dog."
The puppy was expected to survive. Wildlife officials confiscated the mountain lion.
At least two other mountain lion attacks have been reported in the area, including the Sept. 2 death of a pet miniature horse in the Nederland area southwest of Boulder and the death of a 60-pound Australian shepherd in Nederland on Sept. 27.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,300499,00.html
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The only Tricky part is taking off the safety to shoot the critter. 0 -
yup, they will hang him if the hippies in boulder get their way.
Some one once said to me this about bears, mountain lions and hippies. "They will change their minds, once those bears and cats start chitin hiking boots and tennis shoes"[;)]0 -
Puppy is livestock in my book, and I am a cat lover. 0 -
The boulder freaks are going to put his guy through the ringer.[:(] Here kitty kitty...BANG! 0 -
Made me think of a story of a guy who got arrested and prosecuted for death of a bear around lake Tahoe not too long ago. He saw a bear in a tree on his property and fired a (!!) .22 in her direction, the bear fell down and later died. Crazies are prosecuting the guy for wrongful death of a bear.
Here is another one:
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/08/12/news/state/16_51_248_11_07.txt
It's spreading just like cancer.0 -
i dont know about this case in particular, but when a wild animal is feeding on a domestic pet then a person should not have the right to kill the wild animal.
all animals are wild, they are animals. its their food chain and their life. if you dont want your pet to be eaten then leave it inside the house where pets live. if it is outside then thats where wild animals live.0 -
The article says the Lion came at the armed man when he tried to get it to stop attacking the dog...... sounds like self defense to me.
Nevermind the dog. It was coming after him. He should be able to shoot it.0 -
I shot the mountain lion coming at me. Who is to say me nay?
....then I remember the Jon Benet fiasco. Where the [Colorado] investigators weren't allowed to interview the parents seperately, because the parents didn't want to be apart during the interrogation.
All bets are off. Joe0 -
quote:Originally posted by BarkingDog
i dont know about this case in particular, but when a wild animal is feeding on a domestic pet then a person should not have the right to kill the wild animal.
all animals are wild, they are animals. its their food chain and their life. if you dont want your pet to be eaten then leave it inside the house where pets live. if it is outside then thats where wild animals live.
My pet dog is not a meal for a wild animal no matter where the hell he might be. These dogs were chained and on private property. Whenever a wild animal comes on my property and attacks my animals, he is fair game, no matter what the authorities say....IMO, when this cat started towards this man, the part I highlighted in red, he wasn't just looking for food, either.
rider0 -
quote:Originally posted by BarkingDog
i dont know about this case in particular, but when a wild animal is feeding on a domestic pet then a person should not have the right to kill the wild animal.
all animals are wild, they are animals. its their food chain and their life. if you dont want your pet to be eaten then leave it inside the house where pets live. if it is outside then thats where wild animals live.
Well, the mountain lion happens to be one link on the food chain below a human with a firearm.0 -
quote:IMO, when this cat started towards this man, the part I highlighted in red, he wasn't just looking for food, either.
Why on earth would you say he was not seeing the human as food?
You figure he was looking for love in all the wrong places?[}:)]0 -
Those mountain lions would be in a world of hurt if they came to my house. 
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Dangerous animal...in my yard...attacking my family....Sorry, you're gonna die!!! Just that simple. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by guntech59
Dangerous animal...in my yard...attacking my family....Sorry, you're gonna die!!! Just that simple.
...can we get an Amen?...0 -
Kitty, Kitty, Bang, Bang, I'd love to!!!!!!
Lance0 -
sounds like self defense if the lion turned towards him[}:)]
me i would have taken a cheeseburger outwith me to bait the cat then bang0 -
CA, OR and WA states have all outlawed hunting Cougars with handguns and the population of their species is booming.[:0][:0]
The positive side of this issue is that they are now attacking the liberal hikers, bikers and pot growers in the rural areas. This will reduce the votes available for the socialist side of the ticket.[;)][:0][:0]0 -
We can only hope.....[}:)][:D][8D] 0 -
Unless necessary never drop the critter in your yard.
Remember that a few wellplaced shots to the midsection
(guts) will allow the problem wildlife to travel a long ways before he is no more. Saves the trouble of the 3 S's Shoot shovel shutup.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by guntech59
Dangerous animal...in my yard...attacking my family....Sorry, you're gonna die!!! Just that simple.
...can we get an Amen?...
Amen, amen. I kill nothing, willingly, except when I intend to eat it. I will, however, protect my family, of which my dogs are a part.
Mine, BTW, live in the house -- but I do insist they step out to do their business. They are then in a fenced yard. They are not fair game for anything that happens to see them as food, sport, whatever. This, by the way, most adamantly includes human beings.
Guess I ought to change my username to "treehugger". Maybe after deer season.... The Greenpeace and PETA folks would probably show up to do my admissions interview as I was butchering Bambi -- very embarressing.0 -
Ask them if they're hungry.[:0] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by rider
"We're investigating what will happen to the person who shot the lion," Churchill told the Daily Camera. "We do have laws that allow people to protect their safety and the their livestock. But this is the tricky gray area of it being a dog."
Liberal city, liberal state. Wonder if he's any kin to the liberal liar Ward Churchill?0 -
Remind the Colorado Division of Wildlife that a speedy trial is guaranteed. Ask for a jury trial. Go to the same place, same time of night with a cougar next to it's kill and have Churchill of the Colorado Division of Wildlife, unarmed and ten feet away from the cougar, demonstrate to the jury what he would do. 0 -
I would have shot the thing too. However, I would have followed the SSS operations procedure.
I just don't get the whole "call 911" mentality. Unless someone is dying or dead, I am not calling 911.0 -
Just so we don't get ourselves into this situation, let's all rehearse together. "It was about to kill me."
That's the only thing you say without a lawyer present, and be sure to say it after every time you shoot. THe people at the range must think I'm crazy after every shot "I was afraid for my life. He pointed a gun at me." Gotta be ready to say that. How can they argue?0 -
Sept. 27: A Nederland couple's 60-pound Australian shepherd was stolen by a black man.
Sept. 12-13: Multiple people reported seeing a black man wandering in the area of 13th Street and Columbine Avenue in Boulder.
Sept. 2: A black man killed a 15-year-old white girl seven miles west on Magnolia Road.
Aug. 29: A family's 7-year-old white daughter was attacked by a black man in northwest Boulder.
May 24: Wildlife officers killed a black man in northwest Boulder after a resident reported the black man in his backyard.
May 13: A couple's 16-pound cat, Big Guy, was stolen by a black man outside their home in the 3100 block of 11th Street.
April 12: Wildlife officers tazzered a black man caught feasting on a fried chicken in north Boulder, in the 500 block of Kalmia Avenue.
Its getting dangerous out there folks. Kill all black man at first site.0 -
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
Just so we don't get ourselves into this situation, let's all rehearse together. "It was about to kill me."
That's the only thing you say without a lawyer present, and be sure to say it after every time you shoot. THe people at the range must think I'm crazy after every shot "I was afraid for my life. He pointed a gun at me." Gotta be ready to say that. How can they argue?
X-ring.
Mouth-discipline AFTER a shooting is harder to manage than trigger discipline DURING a shooting.
"I was in fear of my life. I have nothing else to add at this time without the benefit of legal counsel".
Then let the State go and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person who shot the cougar that just took a bite out of Fluffy did NOT have a legitimate fear of imminent grievous injury or death.
Without anything else, no prosecutor would even dare to press that case.
Incidentally, I think this is more of a PR-type maneuver on behalf of the authorities.
They're "investigating" charging him? Bull. They know what happened, yet they don't have enough to file charges yet?
They just want to hassle the shooter a bunch so neither he nor anyone else viewing this mess thinks its OK to go and shoot Mountain lions in that jurisdiction.
That's the point here.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Johnnylikesguns
Unless necessary never drop the critter in your yard.
Remember that a few wellplaced shots to the midsection
(guts) will allow the problem wildlife to travel a long ways before he is no more. Saves the trouble of the 3 S's Shoot shovel shutup.
And creates a blood trail that interestingly, leads right to your backyard.
If you just want the thing gone, why not just fire a shot into the ground next to it. Its unlikely to stick around after ANY shot being fired.0 -
I can't believe they are even messing with this guy. Seems pretty clear cut to me. IF the guy had done something wrong, he wouldn't have reported it in the first place. At least I wouldn't have.
SSS makes the best sense here.0 -
quote:Originally posted by BarkingDog
Sept. 27: A Nederland couple's 60-pound Australian shepherd was stolen by a black man.
Sept. 12-13: Multiple people reported seeing a black man wandering in the area of 13th Street and Columbine Avenue in Boulder.
Sept. 2: A black man killed a 15-year-old white girl seven miles west on Magnolia Road.
Aug. 29: A family's 7-year-old white daughter was attacked by a black man in northwest Boulder.
May 24: Wildlife officers killed a black man in northwest Boulder after a resident reported the black man in his backyard.
May 13: A couple's 16-pound cat, Big Guy, was stolen by a black man outside their home in the 3100 block of 11th Street.
April 12: Wildlife officers tazzered a black man caught feasting on a fried chicken in north Boulder, in the 500 block of Kalmia Avenue.
Its getting dangerous out there folks. Kill all black man at first site.
The point of most of these posts isn't about killing all cougars. It's about our agreement that, finding one in the yard, mauling one of our animals, then seeing it turn toward one of us -- we would kill that cougar.
FWIW, in case it might be assumed that since I would kill a cougar in my yard, mauling my dog, I would kill any dangerous wild animal, any chance I got -- no. In Arizona, on the two occasions I encountered rattlers, it was well outside town, there was no one else around, particularly no kids, so I gave the snakes a wide berth and left them be. They're more valuable to me, alive, for the damage they do to disease-carrying rodents, than for the bragging rights of saying I'd killed a snake. Likewise a cougar, a wolf, a bear, whatever -- if it's in the wild, I'm not hunting it, and there's no imminent danger to my scrawny butt, I'm going to watch the animal for as long as I can and be thankful for the chance to see one. You don't, very often.
But self-defense is another situation entirely. A one-shot deal, pun intended. One does what needs doing and then, hopefully, goes about one's business as usual. That's exactly what the guy who shot the cougar in Colorado should be allowed to do.0
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