Applying for an FFL.. A few questions.
I am planning to apply for an FFL sometime around the first of Feb. or March of 08.
Them being harder to get now days along with hearing that 60 to 70% are denied an FFL on the first attempt. I would like to make my first shot count as much as possible. So I have been studying everything I can find in regards to laws and rules (both fed and state) that a firearms dealer must follow. I wanted to learn all I can before I request the packet from the ATF.
My questions are.
#1. Once you get the finger print card. Where do you have it completed?
#2. Same for the photograph. Does it have to be an "official" photograph from local law enforcement and what type of photo do they ask for?
#3. Once the Local law enforcement is notified that you are applying for an FFL. Do they come out and inspect the property where you will be doing business? In this my home for the time being.
#4. If they do come out. What do they look for when looking at where the firearms will be stored?
#5. I know that the yellow form must be posted at the front entrance where it can be seen from outside. But where in your home do you post such papers as the ones pertaining to handgun sales and all of the others that go with it or do they need to be posted?
This is more of an opinion question than anything.
Say that I was granted an FFL.
#6. Would it be a good or bad idea to contact the states AFT or local law enforcement to go over your paper work after a sale or two to make sure that you are doing things by the books?
This is what brings this question up.
? 178.58 State or other law.
A license issued under this part confers no right or privilege to
conduct business or activity contrary to State or other law. The holder of such a license is not by reason of the rights and privileges granted by that license immune from punishment for operating a firearm or ammunition business or activity in violation of the provisions of any State or other law. Similarly, compliance with the provisions of any State or other law affords no immunity under Federal law or regulations.
That could be rather harsh and ugly for someone who just started out and made an honest mistake with paperwork.
TIA for any advice that you can throw my way.
Them being harder to get now days along with hearing that 60 to 70% are denied an FFL on the first attempt. I would like to make my first shot count as much as possible. So I have been studying everything I can find in regards to laws and rules (both fed and state) that a firearms dealer must follow. I wanted to learn all I can before I request the packet from the ATF.
My questions are.
#1. Once you get the finger print card. Where do you have it completed?
#2. Same for the photograph. Does it have to be an "official" photograph from local law enforcement and what type of photo do they ask for?
#3. Once the Local law enforcement is notified that you are applying for an FFL. Do they come out and inspect the property where you will be doing business? In this my home for the time being.
#4. If they do come out. What do they look for when looking at where the firearms will be stored?
#5. I know that the yellow form must be posted at the front entrance where it can be seen from outside. But where in your home do you post such papers as the ones pertaining to handgun sales and all of the others that go with it or do they need to be posted?
This is more of an opinion question than anything.
Say that I was granted an FFL.
#6. Would it be a good or bad idea to contact the states AFT or local law enforcement to go over your paper work after a sale or two to make sure that you are doing things by the books?
This is what brings this question up.
? 178.58 State or other law.
A license issued under this part confers no right or privilege to
conduct business or activity contrary to State or other law. The holder of such a license is not by reason of the rights and privileges granted by that license immune from punishment for operating a firearm or ammunition business or activity in violation of the provisions of any State or other law. Similarly, compliance with the provisions of any State or other law affords no immunity under Federal law or regulations.
That could be rather harsh and ugly for someone who just started out and made an honest mistake with paperwork.
TIA for any advice that you can throw my way.
0
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Good luck!
I want dad to get a C&R0 -
First of all, make sure you are ok with your local zoning regs...and I believe you are. I had an FFL in WV and I believe the only county that had a zoning dept was Jeffersen County...so you are probably ok with this one.
#1...the local police dept can help you get your prints
#2...I took our photos and used them
#3...no they do not
#4...N/A
#5...I'm not sure what "yellow form" you are referring too. The handgun sales brochures get handed out when a handgun is sold.
#6...Just wait for your first inspection...we were scared to death, but we did fine[;)]
Last but not least, PLEASE KEEP IN MIND...if you operate a firearms business out of your home, you are opening up your entire home for inspection by the ATF...to include your personal firearms. The only way this would not apply is if a certain area of your home (which had a seperate entrance and could be secured from the rest of the home) was dedicated as your place of business...and oh, BTW...try not to make any mistakes. They can put you away for a long time.[;)]
It's really not sooo bad...0 -
ECC
Thanks for the input.
Not making any mistakes is why I am doing all of the research that I can and not jumping head first. I want to be as prepared as possible before even requesting the ATF's FFL kit.
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I can not find it at the moment. But I have read that and if I remember correctly it lets people know that you are storing firearms at the location where the sign is hung.
Got this after a quick web search from someone selling so called "FFL Kits".
"The required yellow BATF Wall Sign. Another item that is easy to forget but that can burn you if you don't comply."0 -
quote:Originally posted by LesWVa
ECC
Thanks for the input.
Not making any mistakes is why I am doing all of the research that I can and not jumping head first. I want to be as prepared as possible before even requesting the ATF's FFL kit.
============================================
I can not find it at the moment. But I have read that and if I remember correctly it lets people know that you are storing firearms at the location where the sign is hung.
Got this after a quick web search from someone selling so called "FFL Kits".
"The required yellow BATF Wall Sign. Another item that is easy to forget but that can burn you if you don't comply."
There are a couple of posters that you are supposed to display, but they come with your initial package from the ATF. You also must display your FFL and reseller permit (state license). Zoning is the biggest problem most folks run into. It was a problem for us, when I opened a shop in the Eastern Panhandle of WV...it should not be a problem for you. The ATF folks out of the Martinsburg office are good people. I don't know if this is the branch you'll be dealing with, but they are very professional. I can hook you up with a rep there if you think it might help you some.?.?
Just keep your paperwork in order and all else should be ok...well, at least until that day comes.0 -
Have lots of insurance.
Have a good mouth piece on standbuy.And in this state Pa.. Wheelchair access is required. Good Luck.0 -
quote:Originally posted by LesWVa
I am planning to apply for an FFL sometime around the first of Feb. or March of 08.
Them being harder to get now days along with hearing that 60 to 70% are denied an FFL on the first attempt. I would like to make my first shot count as much as possible. So I have been studying everything I can find in regards to laws and rules (both fed and state) that a firearms dealer must follow. I wanted to learn all I can before I request the packet from the ATF.
My questions are.
#1. Once you get the finger print card. Where do you have it completed? I used a ink pad and did it myself, plus the goverment has my prints already if they want them
#2. Same for the photograph. Does it have to be an "official" photograph from local law enforcement and what type of photo do they ask for?I used a photo booth at the mall
#3. Once the Local law enforcement is notified that you are applying for an FFL. Do they come out and inspect the property where you will be doing business? In this my home for the time being.
The batfe came out, it was kind of funny, the inspector called, said he wanted to inspect my books, I said what books? I am not licensed yet.
#4. If they do come out. What do they look for when looking at where the firearms will be stored?He really just wanted to check my ID, they had the media apply for licenses in dogs names etc.
#5. I know that the yellow form must be posted at the front entrance where it can be seen from outside. But where in your home do you post such papers as the ones pertaining to handgun sales and all of the others that go with it or do they need to be posted?
like Eric said, they will send you everything you need
This is more of an opinion question than anything.
Say that I was granted an FFL.
#6. Would it be a good or bad idea to contact the states AFT or local law enforcement to go over your paper work after a sale or two to make sure that you are doing things by the books?
I would have contacted the agent who inspected me if I had had a question
This is what brings this question up.
? 178.58 State or other law.
A license issued under this part confers no right or privilege to
conduct business or activity contrary to State or other law. The holder of such a license is not by reason of the rights and privileges granted by that license immune from punishment for operating a firearm or ammunition business or activity in violation of the provisions of any State or other law. Similarly, compliance with the provisions of any State or other law affords no immunity under Federal law or regulations.
That could be rather harsh and ugly for someone who just started out and made an honest mistake with paperwork.
TIA for any advice that you can throw my way.
Like Eric said, the toughest hurdle is the zoning, if you have proper zoning,and your state re-sellers permit/license you should be good to go.
Don0 -
When I applied for my FFL, I went to our local sheriff's office to be fingerprinted and photographed. I think a agent of law enforcement has to sign off on the fingerprint cards. When I notified the sheriff my intentions of opening up a gun business, he took my paperwork with a confused look and said OK. I think his copy of my application ended up in file 13. I then was off to the county zoning commissioner to get my zoning. I included a copy of this with my packet. The ATF appreciated that, because sending in the zoning paperwork saves them footwork. I bundled all this together and mailed in with the funds and waited. Right before I was issued a license, ATF called me and we went over the rules and regs on the phone and I was in business. I hope I don't jinx myself, but the only time I have ever had a ATF in my shop was to buy a gun. I didn't know it until after the fact. 0 -
Sarge, I included a copy of the township zoning regs also, the township I live in passed a special ordinance after the crime bill, they flat out told me they did not like the feds telling them what their residents could do.[:D]
Don0 -
Eric the zoning laws here are about as lax as they get.. lol
A carryout store got a license back in the Spring to sale hard liquor and they are located less than 100' from a middle schools property line across the street and less than 250' from the front door of the school. I have this place in town and another with a few acres that is located well out of town that could serve as a place to set up shop. That and the town has a few small vacant store buildings that they would love to see be put to use. Since we are a small town of about 1200 people the town needs all of the money that they can generate through any type of business. The one hardware store that is located in the middle of town did have firearms for sale but stopped selling them due to lack of sales. All they offered thou was cheap imported military rifles that he tried to sale for three times what they were worth. Over half of them he did not even stock ammo for.
I had planned on getting a copy of the zoning laws from the towns Mayor after Christmas.
I remember when the migrate works came into the Northern Panhandle a few years ago to harvest apples and decided to make the Martinsburg area their own for drug traffic. It being so close to DC would make it tougher on someone.
Again thanks for the input. For I would like to get as much knowledge as possible and have my act at least partly together before even requesting the BATF FFL kit.0 -
When I got my C&R the local agents were most helpful. If I were applying for an FFL I would not hesitate to talk with the local agents telling them I wanted to get it right and asking what they considered most important to doing so. 0 -
My uncle Joe had more trouble with the city than he did with the ATF.
ATF did most everything over the phone, or through the mail
When he applied for a buisness licience with the city they gave him the run around.
-1st the city told him all the guns personal and NIB had to be stored in a safe or "locked room" at all times. So He put a keyed lockset on a bedroom door.
Then Fire marshall showed up to do the final inspection.
Told him the guns had to be store in a FIRE PROOF SAFE. or a room with fire resistant gyp walls and ceiling and a rated door. Then he had to have so many fire exstingishers on hand and in certian places. I think he bought 3 and if they where not in plane sight then he hand to have the "fire exstingisher inside" label visable at all times.
Then he gave him the 411 on storing ammunition and powder/ primers in the garge (all of which was his personal supply). He had cutting and welding equipment In which one or the other needed to be relocated.
All in all the ATF was fairly easy to deal with I guess city/county can be a real bear.
good luck0 -
Odawgp
That is all part of the license process to opening any business.
Inspectors from many different service departments must conduct inspections before you can open for business.
Everyone that I know that owns a small business has went through the process and given time to make corrections before the license is granted for that location.0 -
quote:Originally posted by LesWVa
Odawgp
That is all part of the license process to opening any business.
Inspectors from many different service departments must conduct inspections before you can open for business.
Everyone that I know that owns a small business has went through the process and given time to make corrections before the license is granted for that location.
Sounds like you have done your home works, I was just letting you know(if you already didn't) about some of the possible hoops that you will be jumping threw.
good luck0 -
quote:Originally posted by Odawgp
quote:Originally posted by LesWVa
Odawgp
That is all part of the license process to opening any business.
Inspectors from many different service departments must conduct inspections before you can open for business.
Everyone that I know that owns a small business has went through the process and given time to make corrections before the license is granted for that location.
Sounds like you have done your home works, I was just letting you know(if you already didn't) about some of the possible hoops that you will be jumping threw.
good luck
Thankfully, I did not have to deal with any of this kind of stuff.0 -
Eric
You must have been very lucky when you applied or well informed.
Odawgp
I have been kicking the idea of applying for an FFL for over six months now. And I appreciate any input. I consider any and all advice given. For like I have said. I want to be as prepared as possible before even applying.0
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