Leak in PVC Pipe
I hooked up the water supply from the well to the pressure tank under the house. This is schedule 40 one inch PVC.
At one of the connections about a foot from the tank, there is a slight leak. Evidently there was a little water in the pipe when I glued up the joint. I used the purple primer and orange cpvc glue.
I made the connection yesterday. I connected up all the pipe, waited an hour for the glue to set, and turned on the water, to 55psi. I could not see any leaks, in 22 joints, so I was pleased. But, seventeen hours later, this morning, I came back, and this one connection near the pressure tank was wet. I watched for five minutes and could not see it drip.
I dried it off, came back in an hour, it was wet again. It must be leaking at about a rate of 3 or 4 drips per hour.
This is above a dirt floor composed of sandy clay. You can't see a puddle, it just soaks into the dirt. This is in a dark crawl space, about 4 feet head space.
In other words, it is a leak that no one will ever see, and it won't do any damage. This house sets at the bottom of a steep bank, and after rain, half of the floor of the crawl space is damp from moisture seepage.
So my question is, will this leak be likely to get worse, or is it stable? Once that PVC glue sets, will that leak be stable, or, given that it is a bad joint, is it liable to deteriorate?
At one of the connections about a foot from the tank, there is a slight leak. Evidently there was a little water in the pipe when I glued up the joint. I used the purple primer and orange cpvc glue.
I made the connection yesterday. I connected up all the pipe, waited an hour for the glue to set, and turned on the water, to 55psi. I could not see any leaks, in 22 joints, so I was pleased. But, seventeen hours later, this morning, I came back, and this one connection near the pressure tank was wet. I watched for five minutes and could not see it drip.
I dried it off, came back in an hour, it was wet again. It must be leaking at about a rate of 3 or 4 drips per hour.
This is above a dirt floor composed of sandy clay. You can't see a puddle, it just soaks into the dirt. This is in a dark crawl space, about 4 feet head space.
In other words, it is a leak that no one will ever see, and it won't do any damage. This house sets at the bottom of a steep bank, and after rain, half of the floor of the crawl space is damp from moisture seepage.
So my question is, will this leak be likely to get worse, or is it stable? Once that PVC glue sets, will that leak be stable, or, given that it is a bad joint, is it liable to deteriorate?
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Duct tape. 0 -
The glue has already set. It would worry the hell out of me even though it will probably get no worse and an impurity might even seal it over time.
Personally I would redo it and have 23 joints to look at. The cost is minimal.0 -
That small of a leak may even quit on its own from sediment from your well water.
I would keep a close watch on it for a few weeks and if it doesn't get any worse I would cut that section out and replace it.0 -
I had that problem too, 4 times. Finally, I bought cleaner to go with my primer and glue (fast drying). I wiped pipe with rag to dry then another rag to clean, then used cleaner and then primer and then glue. It dripped every time until i used the cleaner. I could be crazy but from now on i will use cleaner when connecting lines that will be under pressure. 0 -
sweating???? 0 -
I had one that cracked in a real tough place to get to in order to replace. My daughter dumped hot water from boiling potatoes down the sink drain which was against an outside wall. Not good in January.
I mixed up a little two stage epoxy paste - bondo type of thing - put it on and it has held just fine for over five years now.
I would also guess that calcium buildup will eventually seal the leak, but that's pure speculation on my part. It would here, but I've got a well with lots of lime in it, not city water.[:)]
I'd still redo it if you can get to it easily.0 -
make sure its dry and redo it, the constant leak under your house may attract termites, and is not good for the foundation. If it gets worse you may never know it. It should only take a few minutes to cut it out and redo it. 0 -
you used cpvc orange glue to glue pvc sch40 pipe?
that is not the correct cement to use on pvc sch40. Its a different poylmer from cpvc. I suspect all will leak over time.
I would replace that leaking fitting (and all of them, really, for piece of mind) using blue pvc cement, which is used in wet situations (IPS/Weldon calls it Turf-n-Ag). Use the purple primer as well.
Good luck0 -
Personally, I'd redo it, and fix it right.[;)] 0 -
Wrong glue. Use Weld-on 705 or better yet 721 blue glue. Christy's makes "red hot blue glue" as well. Wet or dry glue is an option as well but you have to use a different primer with it. I personally would redo all of those joints as you may have problems later. I have been in the irrigation business for over 20 years and here is how I suggest you glue fittings. After you cut your pipe (if you use a saw bevel the edges) then use P70 primer on both pipe and fittings. Put glue on both pipe and fittings and then as you put the fitting on the pipe turn your fitting 90 degrees. As you turn the fitting it will spread the glue and you will get a better seal. There is a couple of epoxy based cloth products for fixing leaks but you are better off starting over. 0 -
BEHAVIN
plus 1!0 -
I agree you need too redo the joints.By using the wrong glue you will likely have more leaks,at best or total failure of a connection.The advice to use the "hot" blue is right on .This is the best on the market.I have been plumbing and drilling water wells for almost 35 years .Never had a bad joint if preeped right,ie primed and glued with a good glue.Also your statement about the crawl space being wet every time it rains spells trouble in the long run .The moisture is gonna damage the house from rot,fungus ,mold etc.This a problem needs immediate attention. 0 -
CVPC does not work on PVC. Redo the whole thing and use Rain / Shine PVC. You can glue it with the water on and it will stick tight. 0 -
I went back to check this leak. It is not in a PVC glue joint. All the PVC glue joints are tight.
I installed a plastic shutoff in the pipe. Into this shutoff you screw in two one inch male adaptors. Then you glue the pipe into the male adaptors.
The guy at the hardware store told me to use two wraps of the white teflon tape around the threads. This is what I did. It is these threaded joints that are leaking. I suspect that I needed more teflon tape. How many wraps of white teflon tape do y'all use?
As to the glue, boys, this could be a big problem. This morning, I filled the ditch back in. This took three hours of hard work. To dig out the ditch would take a good five hours, hard to dig in a four inch wide, 2 foot deep ditch, 97 feet long.
I am looking at the glue and primer here. The purple primer says "for PVC and CPVC." The glues says "For CPVC pipe through 3 inch diameter schedule 40 and schedule 80."
The guy at the hardware store told me specifically to use this orange glue, and he knew what pipe I was using.
Have you guys had this orange primer fail on one inch schedule 40 PVC pipe when using purple primer?
Seems like, if it holds for an hour, it would hold forever.
These joint have now held for 30 hours with no problems.0 -
The rule of thumb is to use 3-5 wraps for liquids, 8-10wraps for vacuum fittings.
Those threaded joints will probably seal themselves, worst case is that you will need to cut the plastic on one side (3-4" away) of the shutoff valve, unscrew and reseal the threads and than insert a union where you cut the pipe (besides that way you can remove the valve, if needed, in the future). Use 2 wrenches when you tighten the threads, one on the valve and one on the fitting.0 -
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
I went back to check this leak. It is not in a PVC glue joint. All the PVC glue joints are tight.
I installed a plastic shutoff in the pipe. Into this shutoff you screw in two one inch male adaptors. Then you glue the pipe into the male adaptors.
The guy at the hardware store told me to use two wraps of the white teflon tape around the threads. This is what I did. It is these threaded joints that are leaking. I suspect that I needed more teflon tape. How many wraps of white teflon tape do y'all use?
As to the glue, boys, this could be a big problem. This morning, I filled the ditch back in. This took three hours of hard work. To dig out the ditch would take a good five hours, hard to dig in a four inch wide, 2 foot deep ditch, 97 feet long.
I am looking at the glue and primer here. The purple primer says "for PVC and CPVC." The glues says "For CPVC pipe through 3 inch diameter schedule 40 and schedule 80."
The guy at the hardware store told me specifically to use this orange glue, and he knew what pipe I was using.
Have you guys had this orange primer fail on one inch schedule 40 PVC pipe when using purple primer?
Seems like, if it holds for an hour, it would hold forever.
These joint have now held for 30 hours with no problems.
Glue is for CVPC. You need PVC glue. CVPC glue will eventually let go. I know from experience. Glued a joint with CVPC on PVC pipe in an emergency and it held. I thought... wow.. fixed it and didn't go back and redo the connection. It let go months later.. just came apart like it never was glued.0 -
This is from the wm. harvey web site
http://www.wmharvey.com/about/faqs.php
They describe themselves in this way:
"Welcome to the William H. Harvey Company, today we have more than 3500 plumbing specialty items that are sold throughout North and South America. It would be difficult to find a hardware store that does not stock some products made by the Harvey Company. 135 sales representatives call on over 5,000 plumbing and hardware wholesalers nationally. New items are added every year.
We specialize in the areas of:
* Solvent Cements, Primers & Cleaners
* Pipe Thread Sealants & Tapes, Lubricants and Gasket Materials
* Wax Toilet Bowl Gaskets and Toilet Installation Kits
* Epoxy & Plumbers Putty, Caulks and Sealants
* Washing Machine Hoses, Washing Machine Boxes, Sink/Tub/Drain Products
* Toilet Repair Parts and Fasteners
* Soldering and Abrasive Supplies
* Antifreeze, Spa/Hot Tub Chemicals and Hand & Surface Cleaners
* Drain Cleaning Chemicals and Tools
* Genuine Sloan Valves, Repair Parts and Urinal Screens
* Sinks/Tub/Drain Replacement Parts "O" Rings & Faucet Washers
* Shower Pan Liner, Plumbing Construction Materials and Tools
* Plastic & Corrugated Bin Boxes, Nipple Caddies and Accessories
SITE MAP
Copyrightr 2005 William H. Harvey Co."
Here is the wmharvey c&p on this subject, which is in the link above:
Q: Can I use CPVC solvent cement on PVC Pipe? Can I use PVC solvent cement on CPVC pipe?
A: CPVC solvent cement can be used on CPVC and PVC pipe. PVC solvent cement can only be used on PVC pipe.
PVC stands for poly vinyl chloride. CPVC stand for Chlorinated poly vinyl chloride. CPVC is harder, stronger pipe. It requires a stronger solvent cement than PVC pipe. CPVC solvent cement is strong enough to bond CPVC pipe and fittings, so it is strong enough to bond PVC pipe and fittings as well. But PVC solvent cement is not strong enough to properly bond CPVC pipe and fittings and should not be used on CPVC.0 -
select-fire:
You glued a pvc joint with orange cpvc glue, and in a few months it failed.
What type primer did you use?0 -
PVC solvent. CVPC glue came from Lowes. Learned my lesson. Clear glue (PVC ) goes on PVC and orange glue CVPC goes on CVPC. 0 -
If your glued fittings are underground, I doubt they will let go due to the lateral movement resistance of the earth. Don't know for sure, but I've never dug up piping that did. 0 -
I've installed Hot water heaters all over upstate NY and I have never had CPVC glue fail on a PVC fitting, the product I bought at HD has both types pipe listed on the label. I have never had a pipe fail that wasn't primed/cleaned either.I'm lazy and I just glue them but have never had one not work? 0 -
I would leave it alone. The worst that can happen is it'll start leaking. If it does then you can dig it up and fix it at that time. Otherwise you're going to fix it and it's not broken and it just might not ever leak.
But on the other hand when something breaks it will always happen during the worst possible weather at night on a holiday when nothing is open.[:D]
Smitty0 -
quote:Originally posted by BHAVIN
Wrong glue. Use Weld-on 705 or better yet 721 blue glue. Christy's makes "red hot blue glue" as well. Wet or dry glue is an option as well but you have to use a different primer with it. I personally would redo all of those joints as you may have problems later. I have been in the irrigation business for over 20 years and here is how I suggest you glue fittings. After you cut your pipe (if you use a saw bevel the edges) then use P70 primer on both pipe and fittings. Put glue on both pipe and fittings and then as you put the fitting on the pipe turn your fitting 90 degrees. As you turn the fitting it will spread the glue and you will get a better seal. There is a couple of epoxy based cloth products for fixing leaks but you are better off starting over.
I totaly agree w/this.I too have been in the irrigation field for over 25 years.I would add only 1 thing.If you go to your local plumbing/Irrigation supply house, and ask for a 1" "SLIP-FIX" and put it in where the leaky joint is. If you're in a cramped crawl-space, it'll be much easier than trying to put in a coupling and another 90/elbow.I only ever use primer on mains/pressure piping, if it's 2" or over, Sch.40 or not. As long as you use the "glue both fitting and pipe,and insert with a twist" method, you don't realy need primer.If you're using old or pre used pipe i would recomend cleaner.
Here in Palm BEach, we don't have a "freeze-thaw" condition, so pipes are usualy only burried deep enough that mowers/cars runnin over it won't break it.
IMHO, get yourself a "SLIP-FIX" and some med. duty clear glue, and be done with it.I have also found that "blue glue", over time will oxadise(sp) and leak.I've seen it many times, and made some good money replacing blue glue with clear..[;)]
Also, if you have a leak underground, and don't fix it right away, the sand churned-up by the leak will eat away at the outside of the pipe until it totaly blows-out!0 -
Just redo that section, get it right and don't have cause to worry. 0 -
I have put more than 2,000 feet of PVC pipe in the ground over the last 10 years. I have always used the Blue wet/dry PVC solvent cement and no primer. No failures, and some of these pipes are carrying 250 psi of air or water.
I will say that with well water a small leak will solve itself within one week. If not then you have a real problem and will have to replace the leaking parts. Standard practice is 3 wraps for threads. On some 10,000 psi fittings I have had to use 5 wraps then use food grade silicone grease to put threads together.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Alpine
I have put more than 2,000 feet of PVC pipe in the ground over the last 10 years. I have always used the Blue wet/dry PVC solvent cement and no primer. No failures, and some of these pipes are carrying 250 psi of air or water.
I will say that with well water a small leak will solve itself within one week. If not then you have a real problem and will have to replace the leaking parts. Standard practice is 3 wraps for threads. On some 10,000 psi fittings I have had to use 5 wraps then use food grade silicone grease to put threads together.
That's 1.825 feet per day...In a SOLID 15 years of installing irrigation systems , i could safely say i have laid at least 2,000 MILES of pipe, not to mention 10-12 female owner/builders.[:p]
Jeff0 -
I've been retired longer than you've been putting in irrigation systems, and I'm old. I don't get around as well as I used to. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. 0 -
+1 0 -
I wish I had inquired here before I did the job, and I would not have used the orange cpvc glue.
Nevertheless, due to the link from the harvey co, and other info, I believe that the orange cpvc glue will hold.
If not, it is my cross to bear, and I will have to fix it. I would just dig out the ditch with the ditchwitch, pretty easy to re-dig an already dug ditch. Probably do it in an hour. One half day on the ditch witch, $70.
Then redo the pipe. Cost of pipe and glue, about $50.
This job was on the neighbor's house. To do an experiment, I installed a test section of pipe in my own house. I hooked up a "T" into my own well supply pipe in my crawl space. From that I put in a "90" and then I glued in a shutoff. I glued all of these joints using CLEAR pvc glue, along with purple primer.
Past the shutoff, I put on a test section of pipe, about eighteen inches long, into which I put a 45 degree joint, a connector, and an end cap. So, counting gluing into the shutoff, there are 4 joints in the test section. On all of these joints I used purple primer and the orange cvpc glue. I used remnants of the same one inch schedule forty pvc pipe that I used on the neighbor's job on this test section.
So, if the orange cpvc glue is going to fail at my neighbor's house, it will fail here as well. If mine blows, I simply go into the crawl space and throw my shutoff, and I am ok.
Then, back to the neighbor's for some free warranty work.0
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