C&R license info... thoughts...
I am not even sure what the process is to obtain a C&R license and would like to know more about it... and the pros and cons of having one (there is always a con side to offset any pro side)... any thoughts on the subject?... Thanks, Joe
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This question is aked at least once a month or more. Please check the past post on this question I think you will find all the answers. 0 -
http://www.cruffler.com/becomingcruffler.html
If you are planning on purchasing firearms over 50 years old it may in fact be of use to you. I saved enough on transfer fees with my first two purchases to more than pay for the license.
The link above will walk you through the simple process. Forms available at the BATF website.0 -
quote:Originally posted by duckhunter
This question is aked at least once a month or more. Please check the past post on this question I think you will find all the answers.
...Sound advice. Click on search, and type in "C&R". There will be enough to keep you reading for quite some time. It's a good deal, just don't plan on buying guns to sell to friends. That'll get some unwanted attention.0 -
its cheap,,its fun if your into old or collectable guns,,You can buy a yugo SKS and have it delivererd to your door for $100 ,,you can use it as part of the process to buy from CMP,several good things about a C&R,,,Down side you can not buy to sell,,,they have to be for you,,and burn all your credit cards because they will make you spend way too much $ when you see all they can be used for,, 0 -
If you are going to collect old military stuff you could save money. I had a C&R and collected a lot of guns but after having two ATF agents at the house for several hours ( I made them wait until the next day and make an appointment they just showed up)explaining to them the difference betwen the serial number and model number in some cases when they felt the numbers didn't match my book or having them make comments like "Why do you have so many guns"? and "what's the purpose of your collection" and then "you know these couple of sales bother us" even though I sold a few guns only to enhance my collection which was perfectly legal and clearly spelled out in the book I had to show them. Anyway I decided to let it expire, and I use a local FFL for transfers at 20.00 bucks I don't need all the scrutiny and headache, and I can get anything I want sent to him with no hassle and because I have a CCL he doesn't even have to call in for an approval. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
If you are going to collect old military stuff you could save money. I had a C&R and collected a lot of guns but after having two ATF agents at the house for several hours ( I made them wait until the next day and make an appointment they just showed up)explaining to them the difference betwen the serial number and model number in some cases when they felt the numbers didn't match my book or having them make comments like "Why do you have so many guns"? and "what's the purpose of your collection" and then "you know these couple of sales bother us" even though I sold a few guns only to enhance my collection which was perfectly legal and clearly spelled out in the book I had to show them. Anyway I decided to let it expire, and I use a local FFL for transfers at 20.00 bucks I don't need all the scrutiny and headache, and I can get anything I want sent to him with no hassle and because I have a CCL he doesn't even have to call in for an approval.
that's exactly why i let mine run out, while it was more of a novelty, i found little real reason for me to have one, my purchases never really warranted the risk of a knock on the door, and to be honest neither did my purchases, unless you plan on buying a hundred guns i personally don't think it is worth the hassle0 -
Even if you never use it to buy a gun, it is worth it for the dealer discounts at Midway, Graf's etc.
Pete0 -
It depends on your motivation, as others have said. If you collect older guns, it is well worth it. If you don't, it is a wasted $30.00.
Plus it depends on where you live.0 -
Can't agree with HobbyGuy and neither does the ATF. Having an FFL dealer's license is for people who are serious about DEALING in firearms, not for personal use.
The C&R is only useful for guns 50 years of age or specifically listed as C&R. So if you are only interested in newer guns it isn't of much use.
If you think you might buy an occasional older gun it's cheap and easy to get a C&R and unlike having the 001 FFL which means constant scrutiny from the feds the ATF pretty much leaves the C&R folks alone. I yet have to hear of any C&R holder actually being inspected.0 -
Form 7 CR (5310.16)
on the BATF site.......0 -
I enjoy collecting so it is a good deal for me and they may leave 03's alone but they can scrutinize you more than John Doe if they choose. I have not heard of it either. Do it right and you won't have any problems ! [:)] 0 -
IF you plan to be selling a lot of guns- NO. If you plan to be collecting, YES. To get an 01, you must be "engaging in the business". And have a business license, be zoned for business, etc. If you sell an occasional weapon to enhance your collection, no biggy. If you are buying, and then immediately selling the same gun, yer headed for trouble. Have had on 03 since 1978, no problems. 0 -
Well there is alot of BS in the thread,,I will not call the people on it because I dont want to start a war,,,I have held a C&R for many many years and I know the rules very well,lets just say no one will come to your house if you have a C&R ,unless they suspect you of being in business selling firearms,,,if they believe this you do not even have to have any type of lic for them to show up ,,,and if you do have a lic of any kind they do not need an appointment,,,they do not even need a warrent unless they are there to sieze something.if they just want to inspect your bound book they will just call you in to their office,,,here is the regs,,,,,
SELECTED REGULATIONS (27 C.F.R.) APPLICABLE TO LICENSED COLLECTORS
? 178.11 Meaning of terms. Collector: Any person who acquires, holds, or disposes of firearms as curios or relics.Collection premises: The premises described on the license of a collector as the location at which he maintains his collection of curios and relics. Licensed collector: A collector of curios and relics only and licensed under the provisions of this part. Person: Any individual, corporation, company, association, firm, partnership, society or joint stock company.
? 178.23 Right of entry and examination. (a) Except as provided in paragraph (b), any ATF officer, when there is reasonable cause to believe a violation of the Act has occurred and that evidence of the violation may be found on the premises of any licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, may, upon demonstrating such cause before a Federal magistrate and obtaining from the magistrate a warrant authorizing entry, enter during business hours (or, in the case of a licensed collector, the hours of operation) the premises, including places of storage, of any such licensee for the purpose of inspecting or examining:
1.) Any records or documents required to be kept by such licensee under this part and
2.) Any inventory of firearms or ammunition kept or stored by any licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer at such premises or any firearms curios or relics or ammunition kept or stored by any licensed collector at such premises.
(c) Any ATF officer, without having reasonable cause to believe a violation of the Act has occurred or that evidence of the violation may be found and without demonstrating such cause before a Federal magistrate or obtaining from the magistrate a warrant authorizing entry, may enter during hours of operation the premises, including places of storage, of any licensed collector for the purpose of inspecting or examining the records, documents, firearms, and ammunition referred to in paragraph (a) of this section (1) for ensuring compliance with the recordkeeping requirements of this part not more than once during any 12-month period or (2) when such inspection or examination may be required for determining the disposition of one or more particular firearms in the course of a bona fide criminal investigation. At the election of the licensed collector, the annual inspection permitted by this paragraph shall be performed at the ATF office responsible for conducting such inspection in the closest proximity to the collector's premises.
(d) The inspections and examinations provided by this section do not authorize an ATF officer to seize any records or documents other than those records or documents constituting material evidence of a violation of law. If an ATF officer seizes such records or documents, copies shall be provided the licensee within a reasonable time.0 -
quote:Originally posted by sharpshooter039
Well there is alot of BS in the thread,,I will not call the people on it because I dont want to start a war,,,I have held a C&R for many many years and I know the rules very well,lets just say no one will come to your house if you have a C&R ,unless they suspect you of being in business selling firearms,,,if they believe this you do not even have to have any type of lic for them to show up ,,,and if you do have a lic of any kind they do not need an appointment,,,they do not even need a warrent unless they are there to sieze something.if they just want to inspect your bound book they will just call you in to their office,,,here is the regs,,,,,
SELECTED REGULATIONS (27 C.F.R.) APPLICABLE TO LICENSED COLLECTORS
? 178.11 Meaning of terms. Collector: Any person who acquires, holds, or disposes of firearms as curios or relics.Collection premises: The premises described on the license of a collector as the location at which he maintains his collection of curios and relics. Licensed collector: A collector of curios and relics only and licensed under the provisions of this part. Person: Any individual, corporation, company, association, firm, partnership, society or joint stock company.
? 178.23 Right of entry and examination. (a) Except as provided in paragraph (b), any ATF officer, when there is reasonable cause to believe a violation of the Act has occurred and that evidence of the violation may be found on the premises of any licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, may, upon demonstrating such cause before a Federal magistrate and obtaining from the magistrate a warrant authorizing entry, enter during business hours (or, in the case of a licensed collector, the hours of operation) the premises, including places of storage, of any such licensee for the purpose of inspecting or examining:
1.) Any records or documents required to be kept by such licensee under this part and
2.) Any inventory of firearms or ammunition kept or stored by any licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer at such premises or any firearms curios or relics or ammunition kept or stored by any licensed collector at such premises.
(c) Any ATF officer, without having reasonable cause to believe a violation of the Act has occurred or that evidence of the violation may be found and without demonstrating such cause before a Federal magistrate or obtaining from the magistrate a warrant authorizing entry, may enter during hours of operation the premises, including places of storage, of any licensed collector for the purpose of inspecting or examining the records, documents, firearms, and ammunition referred to in paragraph (a) of this section (1) for ensuring compliance with the recordkeeping requirements of this part not more than once during any 12-month period or (2) when such inspection or examination may be required for determining the disposition of one or more particular firearms in the course of a bona fide criminal investigation. At the election of the licensed collector, the annual inspection permitted by this paragraph shall be performed at the ATF office responsible for conducting such inspection in the closest proximity to the collector's premises.
(d) The inspections and examinations provided by this section do not authorize an ATF officer to seize any records or documents other than those records or documents constituting material evidence of a violation of law. If an ATF officer seizes such records or documents, copies shall be provided the licensee within a reasonable time.
Well I will call you on this because all I had was a collectors license and ATF did show up for a "routine" inspection. They do have to allow you to either come to the office, which these two were traveling and staying in a hotel or make the appointment, since they had nothing to believe I did anything wrong this was not a bust in type inspection. It is humerous to me that an expeirence I lived through is called BS by you becasue you dont think that will happen or has not happened to you. If the ATF thought I was dealing for some reason they never indicated that other then after seeing a couple sales in my book asking about them. These are not illiegal a C&R can sell a firearm to enhance his collection, he just can't make a habit of buying and selling.0
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