Import Gun ban.
The importing laws are pretty tough in this country, and seems to be getting tougher. My question is why. The answer to it lies in a rule that one guy who sorta took me under his wing when I came to USA have taught me: If something happens, look for a rich white man. He made it happen, because he will make money off it happening.
It didn't take me a long time to see to whos advantage is the tough import laws: to US gun manufacturers, who can now safely jack up the price, since they do not have competition.
Before the lastet laws, teh Bulgarian AKs fetched 400-500 bucks, now, they are being "reworked" by american company insto SLR rifles and are worth 900. Who would buy a Ruger Mini-14 if there is a good AK version using the same rounds for half the price?
Who would buy a Springfield M1A (M14), if there would be a genuine G3/HK91 or FN/FAL for the same money? Or if there was a Norinco M14 for $300? So what if it has a bad barrel? I will spend another $200 and get a new barrel, having an M14 for 500 instead of 1100 bucks. Who would buy an AR-15 if there was an HK33 available for the same money. Probably less then half of the people buying it now. I know I wouldn't, since I shot HK33 and SIG223 and SLR, and IMHO, compare to any of them, standard AR15 is junk. What if Valmet, Galil, Beretta AR70, HK91, HK 91, High Capacity VEPR .308, SVT, TIGR, ROMAK-3 and Cetme were allowed to come freely into the coutnry? US Gun companies would have all gone under. They show little innovation and creativity, and their guns are greatly overpirzed. I have shot an AR-15, and found it not nearly as comfortable as HK-33 or SIG 556. I am well aware that there are some wonderful developments of AR-15 and AR-10, but they are just variation on the same theme, they also happen to be just as temperamental and high maitanence as M16 itself.
IT seems to me that US gun manufacturers are in HUGE trouble. Very few innovations come out of them, they are contining to put out the same old itesm with new twists: AR-15 versions, Colt M1911, M14.
Who won US army contract for a pistol? Beretta, an Italian company.
Who won a US army contract for a rifle? HK, a German company.
What is the most popular pistol now on the police/civilian market?
Glock, an austrian gun. What guns are being bought in huge quantities? CZ, Taurus, Tanfoglio, Beretta.
There is now a very popular american gun - XD, it is a wonderful gun, I have it in 357 Tactical, except that it was made in Horvatia, and not an innovation of an american armourer.
I have shot Colt M1911, and I found it a rather bad gun, preffering to it a Tanfoglio Witness in 10mm. I see no reason to buy a Colt, when there is Glock available. Sure, Colt is a part of US heritage, but, I am paying my own money, so I would like the most bang for my buck, and that isn't Colt, or Springfield (with exception of M1A, which I am seriously considering), or Remington, or S&W.
I do have to say that I was IMPRESSED by Ruger 89 pistol:-).
Situation is similar with Revolvers. I shot Smith and Wesson one. Have NOTHING but good things to say about it. It is great Then again, I have nothing but good thigns to say about Taurus 608 and it is CHEAPER, though S&W has a better handle. To get a S&W wooden handle is not expensive at all and then I will put it on Taurus.
If you go into a bolt action rilfes, the situation is just as dire: Various Mauser, CZ, Tula and Baikal/Izh, etc versions, if allowed to flood the market, would have taken out all remington and other rifles. Why bother with 600 Remington Rifle, when a Yugo Mauser is just as good?
It seems to me, and I may be mistaken, but the attempt to ban import guns and gun parts, is an attempt by a dying US arms industry to save itself, with help of Senate Republicans and Democrats, they are the ones who cut away the competition and do away with free market in such manner. Winchester is, pretty much dead. Colt is stuck in a loop, making an M16/Colt M1911 versions again and again and again. Remington is making shotguns and rifles.
Springfield Armory was pretty much SAVED by XD pistol (invented in Croatia/Horvatia)
So, basically, next time you are wondering how come VEPR II rifles or HK, or Valmet or Galil, anything else is so hard to fine, you know whom to thank. Not only an anti gun part of Democratic Party, but also the US Gun manufacturers who, interstingly enough, now, do not have to compete with foreign manufacturers and can jack up the prices as high as they want, because we simply do not have an alternative.
It didn't take me a long time to see to whos advantage is the tough import laws: to US gun manufacturers, who can now safely jack up the price, since they do not have competition.
Before the lastet laws, teh Bulgarian AKs fetched 400-500 bucks, now, they are being "reworked" by american company insto SLR rifles and are worth 900. Who would buy a Ruger Mini-14 if there is a good AK version using the same rounds for half the price?
Who would buy a Springfield M1A (M14), if there would be a genuine G3/HK91 or FN/FAL for the same money? Or if there was a Norinco M14 for $300? So what if it has a bad barrel? I will spend another $200 and get a new barrel, having an M14 for 500 instead of 1100 bucks. Who would buy an AR-15 if there was an HK33 available for the same money. Probably less then half of the people buying it now. I know I wouldn't, since I shot HK33 and SIG223 and SLR, and IMHO, compare to any of them, standard AR15 is junk. What if Valmet, Galil, Beretta AR70, HK91, HK 91, High Capacity VEPR .308, SVT, TIGR, ROMAK-3 and Cetme were allowed to come freely into the coutnry? US Gun companies would have all gone under. They show little innovation and creativity, and their guns are greatly overpirzed. I have shot an AR-15, and found it not nearly as comfortable as HK-33 or SIG 556. I am well aware that there are some wonderful developments of AR-15 and AR-10, but they are just variation on the same theme, they also happen to be just as temperamental and high maitanence as M16 itself.
IT seems to me that US gun manufacturers are in HUGE trouble. Very few innovations come out of them, they are contining to put out the same old itesm with new twists: AR-15 versions, Colt M1911, M14.
Who won US army contract for a pistol? Beretta, an Italian company.
Who won a US army contract for a rifle? HK, a German company.
What is the most popular pistol now on the police/civilian market?
Glock, an austrian gun. What guns are being bought in huge quantities? CZ, Taurus, Tanfoglio, Beretta.
There is now a very popular american gun - XD, it is a wonderful gun, I have it in 357 Tactical, except that it was made in Horvatia, and not an innovation of an american armourer.
I have shot Colt M1911, and I found it a rather bad gun, preffering to it a Tanfoglio Witness in 10mm. I see no reason to buy a Colt, when there is Glock available. Sure, Colt is a part of US heritage, but, I am paying my own money, so I would like the most bang for my buck, and that isn't Colt, or Springfield (with exception of M1A, which I am seriously considering), or Remington, or S&W.
I do have to say that I was IMPRESSED by Ruger 89 pistol:-).
Situation is similar with Revolvers. I shot Smith and Wesson one. Have NOTHING but good things to say about it. It is great Then again, I have nothing but good thigns to say about Taurus 608 and it is CHEAPER, though S&W has a better handle. To get a S&W wooden handle is not expensive at all and then I will put it on Taurus.
If you go into a bolt action rilfes, the situation is just as dire: Various Mauser, CZ, Tula and Baikal/Izh, etc versions, if allowed to flood the market, would have taken out all remington and other rifles. Why bother with 600 Remington Rifle, when a Yugo Mauser is just as good?
It seems to me, and I may be mistaken, but the attempt to ban import guns and gun parts, is an attempt by a dying US arms industry to save itself, with help of Senate Republicans and Democrats, they are the ones who cut away the competition and do away with free market in such manner. Winchester is, pretty much dead. Colt is stuck in a loop, making an M16/Colt M1911 versions again and again and again. Remington is making shotguns and rifles.
Springfield Armory was pretty much SAVED by XD pistol (invented in Croatia/Horvatia)
So, basically, next time you are wondering how come VEPR II rifles or HK, or Valmet or Galil, anything else is so hard to fine, you know whom to thank. Not only an anti gun part of Democratic Party, but also the US Gun manufacturers who, interstingly enough, now, do not have to compete with foreign manufacturers and can jack up the prices as high as they want, because we simply do not have an alternative.
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Dmitry - can you train me up in your profession??
D.0 -
...and the tarrifs and duty charges as well, can't forget the giant finger print of Uncle Sam on all this..."he" may just be the biggest beneficary of all this...not U.S gun manufactures...[;)] 
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Well, Doug. That depends what proffession is it.
I have 2 bachelor degrees from US: Biology and History. Have some Master degree courses as well.
I have several Computer Science certificates.
I had a rank of Praporshik in Soviet Army (was given to me at the 3rd year of Military School)
But I mostly read a lot:-)
Then again, all of my degrees and knowledge didn't help me much.
I can't afford to buy two 1000 dollar guns in one month.0 -
How about? When the Gov. wants to ban something more ends up in the hands of the citizens. This is known to always happen.
Why sould the Gov. want to ban guns when it knows there will be more in circulation. Then there was talk about gun powder, more was sold. Same for primers, more were bought. Remember Y2K and storage food? All that happened was more out there in case of a big collapse. If a collapse is what the Gov. is expecting there will be little the Gov. can do to hep us. We will be on our own! Maybe I am off base on this, but that is the way I see it.0 -
The import laws are bad but if the HR1022 passes you won't be able to buy any of those rifles anyway. [V] US gun manufactures will take a big hit if it passes. 0 -
What you are describing is called todays 'Capitalism'...that being a condition of big business and big government cozily in bed together...the government making laws protecting whomever slips them the most bucks...or furnishes the little boys or girls...
The gun angle also plays into the Elitests interests...that being the elimination of firearms in the hands of the public.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Tigerclaw_x
The importing laws are pretty tough in this country, and seems to be getting tougher. My question is why. The answer to it lies in a rule that one guy who sorta took me under his wing when I came to USA have taught me: If something happens, look for a rich white man. He made it happen, because he will make money off it happening.
It didn't take me a long time to see to whos advantage is the tough import laws: to US gun manufacturers, who can now safely jack up the price, since they do not have competition.
Before the lastet laws, teh Bulgarian AKs fetched 400-500 bucks, now, they are being "reworked" by american company insto SLR rifles and are worth 900. Who would buy a Ruger Mini-14 if there is a good AK version using the same rounds for half the price?
Who would buy a Springfield M1A (M14), if there would be a genuine G3/HK91 or FN/FAL for the same money? Or if there was a Norinco M14 for $300? So what if it has a bad barrel? I will spend another $200 and get a new barrel, having an M14 for 500 instead of 1100 bucks. Who would buy an AR-15 if there was an HK33 available for the same money. Probably less then half of the people buying it now. I know I wouldn't, since I shot HK33 and SIG223 and SLR, and IMHO, compare to any of them, standard AR15 is junk. What if Valmet, Galil, Beretta AR70, HK91, HK 91, High Capacity VEPR .308, SVT, TIGR, ROMAK-3 and Cetme were allowed to come freely into the coutnry? US Gun companies would have all gone under. They show little innovation and creativity, and their guns are greatly overpirzed. I have shot an AR-15, and found it not nearly as comfortable as HK-33 or SIG 556. I am well aware that there are some wonderful developments of AR-15 and AR-10, but they are just variation on the same theme, they also happen to be just as temperamental and high maitanence as M16 itself.
IT seems to me that US gun manufacturers are in HUGE trouble. Very few innovations come out of them, they are contining to put out the same old itesm with new twists: AR-15 versions, Colt M1911, M14.
Who won US army contract for a pistol? Beretta, an Italian company.
Who won a US army contract for a rifle? HK, a German company.
What is the most popular pistol now on the police/civilian market?
Glock, an austrian gun. What guns are being bought in huge quantities? CZ, Taurus, Tanfoglio, Beretta.
There is now a very popular american gun - XD, it is a wonderful gun, I have it in 357 Tactical, except that it was made in Horvatia, and not an innovation of an american armourer.
I have shot Colt M1911, and I found it a rather bad gun, preffering to it a Tanfoglio Witness in 10mm. I see no reason to buy a Colt, when there is Glock available. Sure, Colt is a part of US heritage, but, I am paying my own money, so I would like the most bang for my buck, and that isn't Colt, or Springfield (with exception of M1A, which I am seriously considering), or Remington, or S&W.
I do have to say that I was IMPRESSED by Ruger 89 pistol:-).
Situation is similar with Revolvers. I shot Smith and Wesson one. Have NOTHING but good things to say about it. It is great Then again, I have nothing but good thigns to say about Taurus 608 and it is CHEAPER, though S&W has a better handle. To get a S&W wooden handle is not expensive at all and then I will put it on Taurus.
If you go into a bolt action rilfes, the situation is just as dire: Various Mauser, CZ, Tula and Baikal/Izh, etc versions, if allowed to flood the market, would have taken out all remington and other rifles. Why bother with 600 Remington Rifle, when a Yugo Mauser is just as good?
It seems to me, and I may be mistaken, but the attempt to ban import guns and gun parts, is an attempt by a dying US arms industry to save itself, with help of Senate Republicans and Democrats, they are the ones who cut away the competition and do away with free market in such manner. Winchester is, pretty much dead. Colt is stuck in a loop, making an M16/Colt M1911 versions again and again and again. Remington is making shotguns and rifles.
Springfield Armory was pretty much SAVED by XD pistol (invented in Croatia/Horvatia)
So, basically, next time you are wondering how come VEPR II rifles or HK, or Valmet or Galil, anything else is so hard to fine, you know whom to thank. Not only an anti gun part of Democratic Party, but also the US Gun manufacturers who, interstingly enough, now, do not have to compete with foreign manufacturers and can jack up the prices as high as they want, because we simply do not have an alternative.
Damn HAIRY...is that the best user name you could come up with?0 -
The Tiger is a most prolific writer today.
While his views are different, his writing style reminds me more or that 1776 dude.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Tigerclaw_x
Well, Doug. That depends what proffession is it.
I have 2 bachelor degrees from US: Biology and History. Have some Master degree courses as well.
I have several Computer Science certificates.
I had a rank of Praporshik in Soviet Army (was given to me at the 3rd year of Military School)
But I mostly read a lot:-)
Then again, all of my degrees and knowledge didn't help me much.
I can't afford to buy two 1000 dollar guns in one month.
heck dmitri, you are in good shape then! i am lucky if i can buy a $100 dollar gun every 3-4 months!
thats why i pay close attention when the smith shows me something, then i take another persons "junk" and MAKE myself another fine addition to my collection...pics of new projects comeing soon!0 -
Tiger,
While I agree that the import ban serves to protect the American gun industry from competition, I think that the ban is the cause of the lack of innovation amongst American gun companies, not the other way around.
In the presence of protectionist measures, the stifling of free market forces reduces the need of any producer to innovate to maintain their market share.
But before you say American guns have priced themselves out of the market, I'd like to point out that the FN FS2000, a French/Belgian gun, costs approximately $2000. For that you could get a tricked-out Robinson Arms M96 or multiple Kel-Tec SU-16s.
The XD is indeed a Croatian design, but then again, most Taurus pistols are Beretta knock-offs. And Berettas and Sigs, far from being cheap, run about as much as American-made pistols of the same caliber. H&K's? I've seen cars go for cheaper than some of their firearms. And if you want to talk about stagnation, why is it Russia only makes AK-derivatives? China's only innovation is the QBZ-95 and that thing is so riddled with design flaws it's not even funny.
Another issue is reliability - if you've ever fired a 20 year old Smith and Wesson, you know that barring grotesque mistreatment of the firearm that it would be perfectly safe to fire. Could you say the same of a twenty year old Taurus/Rossi? A friend of mine owned a Rossi that went out of time after roughly two hundred rounds. He saved a few hundred bucks in the short term, but guns are not a short term investment.
All in all, there's good and bad to be said about the American gun industry and it gets to be mostly bad when you toss politics into the mix - after all, there was never anything so good in this world that politics couldn't sully it beyond redemption.
Taken as a whole, however, the American gun industry is not dying or outmatched. It has taken this ridiculous ban as an excuse to stagnate a bit, but I don't see it going extinct any time soon, especially since European guns are, by and large, no cheaper than American guns and Chinese and Russian guns aren't allowed into the country.0 -
quote:If something happens, look for a rich white man. He made it happen, because he will make money off it happening.
You need to apologize for this statement. All we need in America is some commie SOB from the USSR telling us about economics! LOL
Dean0 -
quote:Originally posted by mcaso
How about? When the Gov. wants to ban something more ends up in the hands of the citizens. This is known to always happen.
Why sould the Gov. want to ban guns when it knows there will be more in circulation. Then there was talk about gun powder, more was sold. Same for primers, more were bought. Remember Y2K and storage food? All that happened was more out there in case of a big collapse. If a collapse is what the Gov. is expecting there will be little the Gov. can do to hep us. We will be on our own! Maybe I am off base on this, but that is the way I see it.naah, they do in fact ban stuff when they want to see it gone. for example, the ban on full auto. there is less and less available (to non- law enforcement, anyways) because of attrition. old stuff wears out, gets broken, lost, stolen, etc. they know that.
quote:Originally posted by Dean Cascio
quote:If something happens, look for a rich white man. He made it happen, because he will make money off it happening.You need to apologize for this statement. All we need in America is some commie SOB from the USSR telling us about economics! LOL
Deandean... it's true.0 -
soviet communists deserve to die 0 -
why? people aren't bad. governments are bad. 0 -
quote:Every snitch in a workplace was white.that's true also. 0 -
communists ARE the government 0 -
You see, Newt. Here is the difference between YOU and me.
I disagree with neocons and their corporate masters. I disagree where USA headed under King George II. However, it is YOUR right to be wrong if you love being a subject to a domestic spying program and everything else they have done. I would NEVER say that Neocons are masochists who vote for them must die. You have a right to your opinion, even if I disagree with it.
You see, that's the difference between a mench and a trash. I am ready for a discussion using words and ready to listen to your arguments. You, on another hand, having nothing to say and/or being unarticulate enough to spell anything then "die" reduce to making a pathetic show of yourself.
If you argument is "you disagree with me, you deserve to die" that means that you are about as Unamerican as it gets. Reality check, Newt. this is not Nazi Germany yet. However, the way where Neocons are going, thats where we are headed.
HEIL BUSH!!! Are you happy now?0
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