We don't need no stinking labor shortage
I guess that's one way to deal with the predicted labor shortage if a state gets really serious about cracking down on illegal immigrants.
I don't think it's such a bad idea, either. Pay for the inmates seems a little low, but then I don't know what it costs the state to administer a program like this. And it is a voluntary program for the inmates....hell if I was locked up I'd probably be happy to take 60 cents per day to get out into the sunshine and do some work.
NY Times article (might need to register to see it).
Inmates Will Replace Migrants in Colorado Fields
By DAN FROSCH
Published: March 4, 2007
DENVER, March 3 - As migrant laborers flee Colorado because of tough new immigration restrictions, worried farmers are looking to prisoners to fill their places in the fields.
Joe Pisciotta Jr., a farmer in Pueblo County, is concerned about finding enough migrant workers under Colorado's tougher immigration laws.
In a pilot program run by the state Corrections Department, supervised teams of low-risk inmates beginning this month will be available to harvest the swaths of sweet corn, peppers and melons that sweep the southeastern portion of the state.
Under the program, which has drawn criticism from groups concerned about immigrants' rights and from others seeking changes in the criminal justice system, farmers will pay a fee to the state, and the inmates, who volunteer for the work, will be paid about 60 cents a day, corrections officials said.
Concerned about the possible shortage of field labor, Dorothy B. Butcher, a state representative from Pueblo and a supporter of the program, said, "The workers on these farms do the weeding, the harvesting, the storing, everything that comes with growing crops for the market."
"If we can't sustain our work force, we're going to be in trouble," said Ms. Butcher, a Democrat.
The program will make its debut in Pueblo County, where farmers have been hit hard by the labor shortage. Frank Sobolik, director of a Colorado State University extension program that works with farmers in Pueblo County, said he expected that about half of the 300 migrant workers employed by area farms might not return this season.
"There's a feeling, a perception that these laborers won't be back because it's safer for them to find work in other states," Mr. Sobolik said. "The farmers are really concerned. These are high-value crops we're talking about here with a high labor requirement."
Last year, the Colorado General Assembly passed tough legislation that included giving local law enforcement broader powers to check immigration status and restricting access to social services for workers without proper documentation.
The Colorado Immigrant Rights Coalition estimates that there are 150,000 illegal immigrants in Colorado, many of them involved in agriculture. Migrant workers typically travel here from Mexico, Texas and New Mexico for the crop season, where their labor can last from May through the late fall, before returning home to their families. But those numbers could soon be reduced drastically, as workers who are in the country illegally are unwilling to risk exposing their status.
Joe Pisciotta Jr., who owns a 700-acre produce farm in Pueblo County, said he had about 20 workers and expected to lose half of them. Mr. Pisciotta, a third-generation farmer, worried that such a reduction would undercut his ability to supply buyers with the watermelons, onions and pumpkins he grows.
"It's very frustrating," he said. "I'm definitely going to lose customers. We've never had an issue like this. With all of us trying to get enough workers on our farms, I'm worried this is going to turn into farmer against farmer."
Although chain gangs and prison farms have long been staples of American correctional culture, the concept of inmates working on private farms is unusual. But there are signs that other states are following suit. The Iowa Department of Corrections is considering a similar program because of a migrant labor shortage in that state.
Several Iowa farmers called recently to request inmates in lieu of migrant workers, said Roger Baysden, the director of the state's prison industries program. One farmer asked for as many as 200 inmates, Mr. Baysden said.
In Colorado, Ms. Butcher said she hoped that the program, which could send up to 100 inmates to Pueblo County farmers, would remedy a situation that might otherwise turn into an economic disaster.
Immigrant rights group, however, said the Colorado program was myopic.
"Many immigrants are leaving Colorado for other states that will actually embrace their contributions as good citizens and hard workers," said Julien Ross, state coordinator for the Colorado Immigrant Rights Coalition. "This exodus from Colorado has profound negative consequences on our economy and the very fabric of our society."
Mr. Ross said his group was organizing a weeklong boycott of Colorado businesses beginning March 25 to demonstrate the workers' impact on the regional economy.
A group calling for changes in sentencing, the Colorado Criminal Justice Reform Coalition, is also uneasy about the program. The group views the inmates' pay as problematic.
"This feels like the re-invention of the plantation," said Christie Donner, the group's executive director. "You have a captive labor force essentially working for their room and board in order to benefit the employer. This isn't a job training program. It's an exploitative program."
But Ari Zavaras, executive director of the Colorado Department of Corrections, said the merit of a hard day's work outdoors was invaluable to an inmate.
"They won't be paid big bucks, but we're hoping this will help our inmates pick up significant and valuable job skills," Mr. Zavaras said. "We're also assisting farmers who, if they don't get help, are facing an inability to harvest their crops."
With the start of the farming season looming, Colorado's farmers are scrambling to figure out which crops to sow and in what quantity. Some are considering turning to field corn, which is mechanically harvested. And they are considering whether they want to pay for an urban inmate who could not single out a ripe watermelon or discern between a weed and an onion plant.
"This is not a cure-all," Mr. Pisciotta said. "What our farm laborers do is a skill. They're born with it, and they're good at it. It's not an easy job."
I don't think it's such a bad idea, either. Pay for the inmates seems a little low, but then I don't know what it costs the state to administer a program like this. And it is a voluntary program for the inmates....hell if I was locked up I'd probably be happy to take 60 cents per day to get out into the sunshine and do some work.
NY Times article (might need to register to see it).
Inmates Will Replace Migrants in Colorado Fields
By DAN FROSCH
Published: March 4, 2007
DENVER, March 3 - As migrant laborers flee Colorado because of tough new immigration restrictions, worried farmers are looking to prisoners to fill their places in the fields.
Joe Pisciotta Jr., a farmer in Pueblo County, is concerned about finding enough migrant workers under Colorado's tougher immigration laws.
In a pilot program run by the state Corrections Department, supervised teams of low-risk inmates beginning this month will be available to harvest the swaths of sweet corn, peppers and melons that sweep the southeastern portion of the state.
Under the program, which has drawn criticism from groups concerned about immigrants' rights and from others seeking changes in the criminal justice system, farmers will pay a fee to the state, and the inmates, who volunteer for the work, will be paid about 60 cents a day, corrections officials said.
Concerned about the possible shortage of field labor, Dorothy B. Butcher, a state representative from Pueblo and a supporter of the program, said, "The workers on these farms do the weeding, the harvesting, the storing, everything that comes with growing crops for the market."
"If we can't sustain our work force, we're going to be in trouble," said Ms. Butcher, a Democrat.
The program will make its debut in Pueblo County, where farmers have been hit hard by the labor shortage. Frank Sobolik, director of a Colorado State University extension program that works with farmers in Pueblo County, said he expected that about half of the 300 migrant workers employed by area farms might not return this season.
"There's a feeling, a perception that these laborers won't be back because it's safer for them to find work in other states," Mr. Sobolik said. "The farmers are really concerned. These are high-value crops we're talking about here with a high labor requirement."
Last year, the Colorado General Assembly passed tough legislation that included giving local law enforcement broader powers to check immigration status and restricting access to social services for workers without proper documentation.
The Colorado Immigrant Rights Coalition estimates that there are 150,000 illegal immigrants in Colorado, many of them involved in agriculture. Migrant workers typically travel here from Mexico, Texas and New Mexico for the crop season, where their labor can last from May through the late fall, before returning home to their families. But those numbers could soon be reduced drastically, as workers who are in the country illegally are unwilling to risk exposing their status.
Joe Pisciotta Jr., who owns a 700-acre produce farm in Pueblo County, said he had about 20 workers and expected to lose half of them. Mr. Pisciotta, a third-generation farmer, worried that such a reduction would undercut his ability to supply buyers with the watermelons, onions and pumpkins he grows.
"It's very frustrating," he said. "I'm definitely going to lose customers. We've never had an issue like this. With all of us trying to get enough workers on our farms, I'm worried this is going to turn into farmer against farmer."
Although chain gangs and prison farms have long been staples of American correctional culture, the concept of inmates working on private farms is unusual. But there are signs that other states are following suit. The Iowa Department of Corrections is considering a similar program because of a migrant labor shortage in that state.
Several Iowa farmers called recently to request inmates in lieu of migrant workers, said Roger Baysden, the director of the state's prison industries program. One farmer asked for as many as 200 inmates, Mr. Baysden said.
In Colorado, Ms. Butcher said she hoped that the program, which could send up to 100 inmates to Pueblo County farmers, would remedy a situation that might otherwise turn into an economic disaster.
Immigrant rights group, however, said the Colorado program was myopic.
"Many immigrants are leaving Colorado for other states that will actually embrace their contributions as good citizens and hard workers," said Julien Ross, state coordinator for the Colorado Immigrant Rights Coalition. "This exodus from Colorado has profound negative consequences on our economy and the very fabric of our society."
Mr. Ross said his group was organizing a weeklong boycott of Colorado businesses beginning March 25 to demonstrate the workers' impact on the regional economy.
A group calling for changes in sentencing, the Colorado Criminal Justice Reform Coalition, is also uneasy about the program. The group views the inmates' pay as problematic.
"This feels like the re-invention of the plantation," said Christie Donner, the group's executive director. "You have a captive labor force essentially working for their room and board in order to benefit the employer. This isn't a job training program. It's an exploitative program."
But Ari Zavaras, executive director of the Colorado Department of Corrections, said the merit of a hard day's work outdoors was invaluable to an inmate.
"They won't be paid big bucks, but we're hoping this will help our inmates pick up significant and valuable job skills," Mr. Zavaras said. "We're also assisting farmers who, if they don't get help, are facing an inability to harvest their crops."
With the start of the farming season looming, Colorado's farmers are scrambling to figure out which crops to sow and in what quantity. Some are considering turning to field corn, which is mechanically harvested. And they are considering whether they want to pay for an urban inmate who could not single out a ripe watermelon or discern between a weed and an onion plant.
"This is not a cure-all," Mr. Pisciotta said. "What our farm laborers do is a skill. They're born with it, and they're good at it. It's not an easy job."
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Why NOT give the work to criminals from this country instead of criminals from Mejeekow?? 0 -
I, for one, certainly object to "expoiting" criminals.
We should give them law offices, and let the lawyers pick the melons. It would be healthy for them to be outdoors, and would teach them a socially redeeming skill.
D.0 -
Don't know how things are now, but thirty-five years ago I would deliver meat to a Conservation Camp in Northern California. The prisoners housed there was almost in a work release situation. Rather than sitting in a cell at San Quinten or Folsom they lived in a camp-like atmosphere. When called up for fighting fires they were paid a wage, though I don't know the amount. Seemed like a good deal from what I saw of it. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
I, for one, certainly object to "expoiting" criminals.
We should give them law offices, and let the lawyers pick the melons. It would be healthy for them to be outdoors, and would teach them a socially redeeming skill.
D.
[:D][:D][:D]0 -
Doug Wilson said..."I, for one, certainly object to "expoiting" criminals."
State makes contract to provide labor. State finds out it makes money and/ or it can't provide enough labor. State arrests more people and contracts them out. New (or revised Chinese) form of slavery is established.0 -
OK, I've lost the ability to track most of your sentiments.
There's a whole bunch of answers to this, and I can't parse most of them. Will you make it simple for me, please?
I think this sounds like a good program. $0.60 seems low to me as a daily wage. On the other hand, I don't know what the state pays to administer this program, and I don't think the state should lose money on this program.
Can we take it from there and be plain in what we're saying, please?0 -
but i thought the majority of the inmates are illegal immigrants?
Replacing illegal immigrants with illegal immigrants, ha0 -
quote:Originally posted by CA sucks
but i thought the majority of the inmates are illegal immigrants?
Replacing illegal immigrants with illegal immigrants, ha
at $0.60/day are you going to complain?0 -
why pay the inmates anything? pay the guards wages, not the criminals.
I'm not complaining, I'm just stating its kinda ironic they want to replace illegal immigrants of whom the majority are not violent criminals, with criminals, the majority of whom are violent illegal immigrant criminals.
As to the new form of slavery, before any such system go into widespread use, we would need to make sure out courts are giving fair trials0 -
It would be nice if the Big Three in Michigan were allowed to use criminals instead of the UAW to build American cars. I realize there is not much difference between the UAW and the criminal element but the cost of manufacturing would be down and the American people as a whole would benefit...not just some overpaid and spoiled union scum. Unemployed UAW workers would then have the wonderful opportunity to compete equally for jobs like the rest of American workers and truly become part of the American workforce[;)].
We could could even have have a new sales promotion slogan for all of the auto manufacturing industry, "Our workers are really working to give back to America." And think about giving the criminal workers time off for better quality in production...they would certainly work to deliver what the UAW failed to deliver...better quality at a lower price. Beach0 -
I agree with this whole heartedly. If this spreads, maybe us honest citizens won't have to pay to house and feed the dishonest ones, their labor can pay for it. 0 -
I don't know about Ari Z, sometimes...
"They won't be paid big bucks, but we're hoping this will help our inmates pick up significant and valuable job skills," Mr. Zavaras said. "We're also assisting farmers who, if they don't get help, are facing an inability to harvest their crops."
I addressed this on my show Friday. And these inmates are actually going back to Compton/Detroit/Five Points and saying,"Nah, man. I don't ever need to sell drugs again, now that I know how to swing a beet knife"
Give me a freakin' break.0 -
They won't be paid big bucks, but we're hoping this will help our inmates pick up significant and valuable job skills," Mr. Zavaras said. "We're also assisting farmers who, if they don't get help, are facing an inability to harvest their crops."
Yep! some Skill, picking an apple off a tree or plucking berries from a bush..I can see it on a resume, "I pull a mean apple off a tree" or "I can pick a berry with out smashing it"[:o)][:o)]
You know the "Do Gooder" crowd isnt going to allow anyone to force convicted criminals to work, That would be cruel and unusual punishment.[:0]0 -
Originally posted by beachmaster73
It would be nice if the Big Three in Michigan were allowed to use criminals instead of the UAW to build American cars. I realize there is not much difference between the UAW and the criminal element but the cost of manufacturing would be down and the American people as a whole would benefit...not just some overpaid and spoiled union scum. Unemployed UAW workers would then have the wonderful opportunity to compete equally for jobs like the rest of American workers and truly become part of the American workforce[;)].
We could could even have have a new sales promotion slogan for all of the auto manufacturing industry, "Our workers are really working to give back to America." And think about giving the criminal workers time off for better quality in production...they would certainly work to deliver what the UAW failed to deliver...better quality at a lower price. Beach
[/quote/]
You equate UAW workers with criminals? Your whole post is ridiculous garbage, and exposes you, and all who agree with you, as mindless cretins. What you propose is one of the methods employed by China to gain price advantages in the World market. I assume your kind welcomes the illegal aliens and can't wait to buy the Chinese cars when they arrive here.[:(!]0 -
As far as I'm concerned all illigal aliens should be deported back to their own countries. With the number of unemployed Americans I don't belive there will be a labor shortage. One way to avoid a labor shortage is to quit giving food stamps, fuel oil, etc to those lasy b@$^&(^$ that won't work because they are better off living off the rest of us. Anyone who is on welfare should be required to do some type of work at least a couple days a week. As far a prisoners go they should be worked hard 8hours a day 5 days a week and receive no extra pay. We are already feeding them, housing them, and clothing them.
Have a son in the national guard going to Arizona in a couple weeks to build fences. Thats a bunch of crap. They should be taking machine guns and firing on anyone headed in this direction that crosses a well marked certian point.0 -
quote:Originally posted by 41 nut
As far as I'm concerned all illigal aliens should be deported back to their own countries. With the number of unemployed Americans I don't belive there will be a labor shortage. One way to avoid a labor shortage is to quit giving food stamps, fuel oil, etc to those lasy b@$^&(^$ that won't work because they are better off living off the rest of us. Anyone who is on welfare should be required to do some type of work at least a couple days a week. As far a prisoners go they should be worked hard 8hours a day 5 days a week and receive no extra pay. We are already feeding them, housing them, and clothing them.
Have a son in the national guard going to Arizona in a couple weeks to build fences. Thats a bunch of crap. They should be taking machine guns and firing on anyone headed in this direction that crosses a well marked certian point.
How true. There's no shortage of workers to fill the jobs the Mexicans are doing, there is, however, plenty of employers unwilling to pay Americans a fair wage.0 -
If a fair wage was paid to pick lettuce , Lettuce would cost 10.00 dollars a head.
We live down near the strawberry fields, most people I know wouldnt pick strawberries for 10 bucks an hour. I tried it once about 20 years ago, no thanks..In the summer all the teenagers try to get jobs at Mcdonalds or at one of the local malls, tell them to go pick strawberries and they ask if you are nutz..
Hell blackroses cant get part time help taking care of the cats, pays around 10 bucks an hour.. "What? me clean out a cat cage" NAH!!!!!!!0 -
quote:Originally posted by Classic095
If a fair wage was paid to pick lettuce , Lettuce would cost 10.00 dollars a head.
Then $10 a head would be a fair price? You are correct though about much of the youth being lazy these days. That would be the fault of the parents. What are these nuckleheads going to do when they're on their own with this kind of attitude?0 -
Agricultural production is one of the only major sectors of our economy which still represents closely the competitive economic model. Agricultural producers accept what is offered to them for their products. Individually (and even collectively through coops), they have little bargaining power with the larger (read fewer in number) concerns that purchase their products. In turn, they purchase their inputs from large businesses and pay what is asked. If they do not want to pay it, they do not get it.
Agricultural wages are low, generally speaking, at least for hand labor (unskilled). However, producers are in a poor position to pay more as it comes directly from their "profit" (which presumes that there is a profit). Often it would only increase the loss that is incurred. Farming is a tough way to make a living.
Prices paid for agricultural products at the farm level, in general, are one of the few things in this country that do not inflate. Basic grain prices today are higher than they have been in recent times, but are below the amounts received by farmers 30-40 years ago. I am not using inflation adjusted comparisons --- rather $$$ per bushel or per cwt. Few of us would want to work for the same payment that our father received. Farmers do that!!!!!! They can survive only through constant improvement in efficiency. The ultimate beneficiary of the improved efficiency is the consumer. More of our industries should have such motivation.0
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