difference in 40cal btwn.180gr.and 165/155gr.ammo?
I just bought 200 rounds of Winchester white box 165 grain 40 cal. FMJ ammo. from Wal-Mart.
I didn't realize 'til I got home that they weren't the usual 180 grain ammo. I'd been used to getting in the white box for 50.
I was just happy to get them at about $19 per box of 100.
All my pistols are used to gobbling up 180 gr. ammo.
Will they act noticably different in my semi-auto pistols, please?
I didn't realize 'til I got home that they weren't the usual 180 grain ammo. I'd been used to getting in the white box for 50.
I was just happy to get them at about $19 per box of 100.
All my pistols are used to gobbling up 180 gr. ammo.
Will they act noticably different in my semi-auto pistols, please?
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I shoot both in Glock 23. I can't tell any real difference and both print close to Point of aim.. 0 -
Cool, William81
I have a Glock 23 also(and love it)....I also shoot my Sig239, Beretta Cougar, Taurus Millenium Pro, Springfield XD subcompact, and Steyr M40....All 40 caliber.
Any idea about using the 165 gr. in them too?0 -
I also have an XD tactical that I recently purchased and have shot both though it without any problems. I can not imagine any difficulties with any of your firearms in using the 165's. 0 -
super!
I'm just now starting to learn about ballistics and reloading. I haven't set up the gear yet, I still lack one critical piece of equipement.
But I think I've read in ballistic articles that a 155 or 165 gr. load is a "hotter round"(higher muzzel and 50 yrd(feet?). velocity) than a 180 gr. load.
Seems like a paradox to me. But is that right, guys?
(I'm still learning)0 -
The 155's and 165's aren't really "Hotter" rounds, but they can achieve much higer velocities with them than a 180 grainer.
The most powerful 40 caliber defense ammo will be in 155-165gr bullet weights.0 -
OK, so when I was starting to gather the supplies for reloading my 40 cal. brass, I bought some 180 grain slugs. Those shouldn't be used in 155/165 grained reloads, right? 0 -
not a big difference 0 -
they are a higher velocity
180 grain fmj 990 fps 390 f#'s '178 power factor
165 grain fmj 1060fps 412 f#'S, 174.9 power factor
it takes less powder to move a heavier bullet, this is why a lighter bullet uses more powder, and is considered "hotter"
while the 165 may have more fps and foot pounds, it has a lower power factor which will translate into lower recoil
grain x weight divided by 1,000 = pf
weight x velocity x 2 divided by 450400= foot pounds
now with that being said, allot of companies such as corbon use the lighter bullet, and push it at 1,100 pfs for a much hotter round, but will translate into much more recoil0 -
I reload 155gr RN's for my plinking ammo. Shoots just fine. I think the 40 pushes the 155's a little faster than said earlier.
I've seen data of 155's pushed to 1200+ FPS in factory ammo.
Hodgdon show's a 135gr NOS HP tipping the meters at 1480fps.
^ that load is hot and would be a stopper. But I'd shy away from keeping reloads as a defense round.
On the other hand, when comparing my plinking ammo(reloads/factory) vs. my 155gr Remington Golden Sabres. The Golden Sabres are almost painful to shoot. They are really hot loads.0 -
try 155 in a .45, then you'll know why they call them flying ash trays 0 -
thanks guys,
I'm still trying to digest all that physics0 -
What the hell are you doing shopping at Walmart in the first place? Try supporting someone who isn't selling us out to the chinese. 0 -
who are you and why should he pay more for WINCHESTER or REMINGTON ammo somewhere else, if cost is a factor 0 -
Sorry if you were offended.... I'll try to remember some people have sensitive feelings, and others have difficulty appreciating humor when it has an element of irony to it.
As for who I am, my name is Doug and I'm a guy who is sickened by the fact that it's virtually impossible for a Walmart store to NOT make it (and drive a bunch of little guys out of business) because almost everyone seems to automatically go there to shop. It's difficult for me, as a fiscal conservative, to disagree with such a simple practice of shopping where things are cheaper... but there comes a point where we should draw the line. There's more at stake here than a couple of bucks.
Also, traditionally Walmart has taken the money made from your purchases (yes, even the gun and ammo purchases) and donated money to democrat candidates (can anyone say "Arkansas, Sam Walton, and Bill Clinton"?
That was back when one of their selling points was almost everything they sold was made in America. Where does it all come from now??? How about the country with a billion people who are planning to fight us in the next world war?
Up for a little challenge? Make a list of non-grocery items you would like to have, then go to wal mart and see how many of those items you can find that weren't made in china. Then of all the non-chinese items, how many of them were made in the USA? I'll be here when you get back.. unless of course I'm banned from the forum for offending someone's delicate sensitivities.
...........................................
Or maybe next time I want to just joke around with someone, I'll send them a private message instead of posting on the forum. Just to be on the safe side, maybe ALL comments made by anyone should be made in private instead of in the forum. That way, no one is offended. After all, we can't take any chances, can we?0 -
Please forgive me, guys.
I'm still not understanding some of those ballistics principles.
Three questions please:
---And please, Is there a way to try to describe these principles in "moderate dummy"(relative layman's)explainations and without abbreviations?---please try...I Really REALLY want to understand this and would Very Much appreciate your effort, if possible. All related to 40 caliber.
1)Why does it take less powder to move a heavier bullet?
2)Why would lower powder react with more recoil?
3)And with 40 cal. what combination of lower amounts powder and grain rated slug weight would give the straightest trajectory over 30 yards?
Oops....one more(if I haven't asked too much already)...4)good combination of powder rating and slug weight for takedown effect at say 12 yrds? (with a hollow point)
Thank you SO much for letting me "tap into the knowledge bank" here of all you very experienced people!0 -
Each gun/load combination will behave differently.
You can have two identical guns, with sequential S/N's. One will shoot fantastic with one load, the other will shoot horribly.
You have to suit your load to the gun.
I strongly suggest NOT reloading your own hollowpoints in a pistol not intended for hunting(the 40 cal fits this bill). If, god forbid, you ever have to defend yourself, they will try to charge you with concocting a "super-deadly, ultra-highpowered" round, "intended for killing people". Don't ask why, because, sure as rain, they will question you.
Use factory-available defense ammunition for defense. Handloads for plinking.0 -
Exactly, cubslover my friend!
I Never would think of putting the life of myself or a loved one "on the line" with a reload....anyones!
That much I know for a fact. And never, never have considered that for self defence. I was speaking of 40 cal. factory self-defence ammo of different powder grain rating.0 -
quote:Originally posted by first_timer
Exactly!
I Never would think of putting the life of myself or a loved one "on the line" with a reload....anyones!
That much I know for a fact. And never, never have considered that for self defence, my friend. I was speaking of 40 cal. factory self-defence ammo of different powder grain rating.
I had figured you knew that.
The 155gr Remingtons, Hydrashocks, or Gold Dots are your best bet for defense ammo out of a 40caliber. I carry the Golden Sabres from Remington. Hornady's TAP ammo is good stuff as well.
Typically a lighter bullet will shoot flatter than a heavier bullet. At typical ranges of the automatic pistols, you won't notice much of a difference. Beyond 20yds you may notice it.
However, the difference in trajectory between a 155 and 165grainer won't be noticeable. The 155 at a high velocity may push more energy than the 165, just slightly more. It seems the 155er is the perfect blend of weight and speed for the 40, to give your best energy levels. The 135grain Nosler reload that I mention earler is a high energy round due to its high velocity, but you won't find that light of a weight round from the factory.0 -
Right, I may be a relative newbie, but I'm not foolhearty, careless with loved one's lives(or "ignrant"...Ha!)wanting to save money on self defence. I'll take the BEST, please mister ammo sales guy, screw the cost!
OK, here's true newbie question:
Is the powder grain number related to amount/volume of powder in a load, the size the accelerant particle "grains" themselves? (or what determines the grain number, please)?0 -
I don't reload...but the grain has to do with the weight of the bullet. (At least that is what I have figured out from ordering things for people.) 0 -
The grain number you see is the weight of the bullet.
When you see a box stating a 155gr JHP..That's a Jacketed Hollow Point Bullet weighing 155grains. You won't see a description for the powder charge.0 -
thanks guys,
That makes sence.
(and now starts to make the discussion slightly more understandable for me....I had mistakenly invisions grains or tiny pellets of powder being the "grains"...Ha!...thanks)
But jumping ahead in my future reloading endeavor.....how does a reloader guage how much accelerant to reload into a cartridge to make various performing rounds?0 -
That data is given to you.
With all do respect, you'd better grab a few books on reloading. It's more of a science than anything. If you don't know EXACTLY what you are doing, you may just ruin your day, your gun, or your life.
Seriously.
Get a few books. The ABC's of reloading, Speer Manual, Hornady manual, etc. Read those books, cover to cover, then read them again.
The manuals will have load data for the different calibers/powders/and bullets. You don't just guess how much powder to use with each bullet weight. The manufacturers have done the research and have the data available to you.
Check out these websites...
www.handloads.com
www.thereloadbench.com
www.hodgdon.com <----will have load data
www.alliantpowder.com <
will have load data
www.hornady.com
www.chuckhawks.com
It really sounds like you need to learn and understand more aspect of ballistics and the science behind the fired cartridge before you start reloading.
Don't take it personally. I've only been doing it just over a year, but I do a lot of reading on the subject and on ballistics. I still have TONS to learn.0 -
Yea ever since one of our local small gun shops that has been in business closed down, and we had a gander mountain store open, the prices on everything have skyrocketed. Academy used to be a real good place to buy stuff but they started keeping their prices just under gander mountain which ment they all went up. Walmart seems to be the only place to get cheap ammo here anymore unless you reload or mail order. 100rd box of 40sw $19.99 is as cheap as it gets. No one else has anything that compares. Gander charges $30 for that exact same 100rd box of 40sw Winchester whitebox 165gr FMJ ammo... Acadamy doesn't even sell it, they just have the 50rd boxes for $15 ea. I absolutely hate Walmart. But sometimes you have to compromise to the evil empire. I figure if I'm going to buy anything at all at walmart, its going to be guns. At least it will add to the "people buy guns from us" statistic or something.
Also I noticed that my glock 22 seems to favor the 165gr over the 180gr. I get a noticeably tighter group, but there really isn't any felt difference in recoil or anything.0 -
I understand why you hestite to tell me that, Cubslover.
And I shouldn't have "jumped ahead so far" in my curiousity.
I know you think I'll just use your info. and jump right into pressing out "exploding bad garbage" that would hurt me and ruin my guns. I understand....I got the same responce from "Ask The Experts", when I asked a question that showed my lack of knowledge too. They didn't want to answer and said to study up from books.
And I'm doing that. I'm slowly(as I go through other things in my life)...reading both Lee's "Modern Reloading Manual"...and the Lyman "48th Edition" Reloading Handbook(recommended by a reloading former Special Forces friend, who I've unfortunately lost contact with).
Believe me, I'm both excited and a little spooked about reloading and will do it, deliberately, thoughtfully and cautiously as a new reloader when I've read and reread the manuals, other things...and asked questions of those already into it.
Sorry.
Thanks for your concern for my safety, friend.0 -
about the reloads cubs is referring to legality
i would trust my reloads more than any factory ammo made, one of the first things to learn about reloading is while it is the cheapest way to go, you cannot compare the final product to wwb, i produce match quality ammo that can only be compared in quality, and accuracy to the 20.00 a box of 20 ammunition
but some people feel strongly about not using them for self defense0 -
FT, those are two fantastic books on reloading. I'm glad you're reading them. Reloading is both fun and a little scary. When you first put a load together and take them out for the first time, you wonder how they're going to perform. Then you know that load will or will not work for you and go from there. It's a rewarding experience.
Safety is the #1 concern, as you know. We don't want someone to get hurt or ruin a gun.
Like I said, I'm a rookie, but I can answer a few questions. I'll try to answer any question that I know the answer to. If I don't know the answer, I'll try to find it. The guys on this forum are extremely knowledgeable (NoNonsense, 1911-fan, Heavyiron, perryshooter, etc), they'll be able to answer your questions in the future, once you have a good understanding of the whole aspect of reloading. These guys are a wealth of information. Best of luck!0 -
Thank you, friend.
As I read and learn, and come across something of interest that I need thoughts from someone with "hands on experience" to clarify....I'll ask you.
Thank you kindly!
Right now, I'm having one Hell of a good time at the range with my toys!(and continuing to scoop up the brass for the future)0 -
First_timer
You will enjoy shooting 10 times more if you can save 50% on your ammo. You say, "How" and so will alot of guys.
well, bear with me
here it goes
brass is the most exspecsive componet but you can find once fired on ebay and a few other places for about half the cost if not less than half.
brass $125.99... for 1000 New, $65 once fired
powder. 15.99.... 1lb = 7000grs of powder
primers 22.99... for 1000
bullets 79.99... for 1000 155gr fmj
total... $245 ...for 1000, about 12.25 per box w/ new brass, by buying the once fired cost is $184 for 1000 about 9.20 a box,
I know your thing "I still dont save much money??"
this is where it gets crazy cheap.
now that you have the brass and you SAVE it. do the math without the cost of the brass!! and let me tell you i have some brass that has been reloaded 10-12 times. i can reload for about 6 bucks a box. and if i shop around i can get some of the componets for up to 3-4 dollars less than what i have showed above. Buy cheap and in bulk and soon you will be shooting for between 4.50 and 6 bucks a box. about 12 cents a piece, i once run an audit and, once found that i got such a good deal on the bullets, that i was shooting for 8.5 cents a piece, 4.25 a box. and if you shoot a cast lead bullet even cheaper.
Pick up your brass and your buddies if he doesn't it all adds up in the long run. go to the gun range and dig through the brass barrel if they dont keep it and sell it themselves, Ours here gets raided once twice a week buy different guys looking for different cal brass. if you can pick up a couple 1000 pieces of brass @ little or no cost you will soon be shooting for at most 6 bucks a box. shoot the brass until you dont dare anymore.
My reload recipe is in the speer manual 40s$w reduced LEO load. (its like 5 and some grs, i cant remeber off top of my head) but, is a great for plinking and beginer shooters and easy on the brass, that is why i can reload 12+ times before i will huck the brass never had one come apart or seperate yet. and both my ruger and sig love this recipe.
Good Luck Have fun0 -
Great...that's what I'm looking for!
What Pi--ses me of is when I'm firing at a range and look done to the guy to my right picking up MY brass too!! Boy, did he get a "Earful" of "get your *&^%$# Damn hands off those...I'm going to reload too, buddy".
Tell me your thoughts on this, guys.
I probably have about 1000 casings(and growing every week). I TRULY want to go FMJ, but have only purchased a box of 200 40 cal. slugs, so far.
DO you think the war is going to make the price and availability of FMJ slugs and powder skyrocket anytime soon? Should I start bulk buying them now?0
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