whatever happened to small motorcycles ?
When I was a teenager growing up during the 1960s,everybody had small motorcycles.Most were around 50 to 250 CCs in engine size.Alot of kids rode them to middle school and high school. There was Honda's,Yamaha's Bridgestone's,Dacati's,some moped's and scooter's.I knew a couple of guys that had Harley Scats,Pacer's and later,M50'S.You rarely saw females riding them by themselves.Why is there so few small bikes nowadays ?
EvilDr235
EvilDr235
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60 yamaha in 73.I was 13.Put over 5000 miles on that rascal and never got over 1/2 mile from home or on the road. 0 -
You guys are making me sigh. Sold some cattle in 1970 and bought a brand spankin' new Honda CL70. I was 12. It was candy Orange and grey. Worked my way through a Cl 90 to and SL 350 - what a heavy piece - but it would out run anything near it after it spent time with a special tuner. Rode a CB 360G in college for 2 years, with no other transportation - it got rode regardless of weather.
A good friend had a Honda S90 that we took apart when we were 15. Got the parts from Japan when we were 16 and a half! Took all the parts out of the buckets and trash bags and put it together. Had a half a bucket of parts left. We shrugged our shoulders and poured in a quart of oil. It ran out as fast as we poured it in! Took it back apart, put the gasket in it that we forgot and poured the oil back in it. pushed it down the road about 30 yards and it cranked and ran for 3 years! The good old days....
Got a 4-wheeler now with a bigger engine than anything i ever rode down the highway.....0 -
The Honda 50 brings a big premium when you can find them. I had the Trail 50 when I was young and beat the crap out of it for years.
There are a bunch of hot rod parts available for them.
I found a 1980 Honda XL185 a couple days ago. Has 4000 miles on it and is great condition. No dents or anything. $800 and it is mine.0 -
Many of these small engined bikes wont keep up with traffic that's gotten 20 mph faster since the 60s and 70s. Cars and trucks get annoyed with you and crowd you causing accidents.
You need enough power to keep out of trouble.
To ride safe, a bike today needs to to be able to cruise at 70mph and have a little to spare. It also needs to accelerate at least as fast as most cars.
That would exclude a lot of bikes below 500ccs and most scooters.0 -
All of my 450s would do well over 100MPH, factory stock.
Doug0 -
I have a 1970 CB450 that I picked up for $500.00 at vintage bike days 2 years ago. I tuned it up, cleaned it up a bit, new tires, and it's a blast to ride. It will keep up with today's traffic, but it's not a lot of fun over about 65 mph. I've had it around 75, but you really have to keep the revs up, and in 5th gear, you've got no power.
I have a 1966 BMW r50 that I restored, and I have never been able to get it over 55-60. Admittedly, I have since gotten a new advance unit/points cam, as the other one I had was ground wrong, and I couldn't set the timing, and since then, i've gotten it right, but I've not had a chance to open it up. Supposedly top speed is 83 or so.
I have a 1971 R75/5 that is in storage, and I don't remember taking it more than 70 mph, but that was due more to some suspension issues than the motor...0 -
In 1963 my friend Jimmy got a used Sears Allstate moped.In 1964 he got a new Honda 90 and my other friend laddie got the moped.In 1965 laddie also got a new Honda 90 and I got the moped.I quickly found out why the flywheel should have a cover on it.I ran into my friend Okie Custer's garage and had the moped fall on me and eat a big hole in my left leg.later I got a Honda cub 50.It was a early one with a 3 speed transmission.The moped would not keep up with my two friends Honda 90s.To go ridin with them I would go down to the Chevron gas station where they rented Yamaha 80s for 2 dollars a hour.The 2 Honda 90s would reach speeds of 65 miles an hour and the Yamaha's would do 55 if in tune.laddie let another friend Paul ride his one night back in 1967 and totaled it out by hittig a deer with it.Jimmy still had his up in till 2000 when he died of a stroke.I don't know what happened to th bike.I also had a Honda 160 scrambler.My girl friend/later wife bought a new Honda 125 street bike and would let me ride it if she was in a good mood.I have had friends that have owned bikes over the years and would let me ride them. I really liked the Harley Scats and Pacers (baby hogs).I had a kawasaki KZ250 about 10 years ago.It would do 75 wide open on level ground.I forgot to check the oil one day and it started knocking on the way to work.I could not afford to repair it and sold it at a garage sale.Everytime I look at the scars on myself,they bring back fond memories of friends and bikes long gone. PS cars too.
EvilDr2350 -
I have an old Yamaha RD 350 from 1974 in the barn.But maybe that's a mediumsized motorcycle.
At low rews it were weak like a 50 cc scooter.But at high rews it turned in to a dangerously fast missile [:)] awfully fast.
You know, like pull the gas and nothing happens,then nothing happens and then something starts to happen (nice finally) and then opps iiiiIIIIIIHHH Ziiiiiing !0 -
quote:Originally posted by EVILDR235
When I was a teenager growing up during the 1960s,everybody had small motorcycles.Most were around 50 to 250 CCs in engine size.Alot of kids rode them to middle school and high school. There was Honda's,Yamaha's Bridgestone's,Dacati's,some moped's and scooter's.I knew a couple of guys that had Harley Scats,Pacer's and later,M50'S.You rarely saw females riding them by themselves.Why is there so few small bikes nowadays ?
EvilDr235
# 1 - back then there were no laws about min speed required to be street legal. the smaller motors prevent enough speed today to be certified by DOT
# 2 - bikes todsay are luxury items ridden by two types of people....young dare devils who want SPEED (crotch rockets) and older men who like cruising (harelys)
# 3 - insurance !!!
# 4 - people today are scared of riding bikes because of dangerous car drivers. roads are much more crowded today.
# 5 - law today requires motorcycle license in most states. many casual riders dont want to bother with the hassle.0 -
Back in the 1960s when i still lived in Commiefornia motorcycles had to have at least 15 horsepower to drive them on the freeway.
EvilDr2350 -
quote:
# 2 - bikes todsay are luxury items ridden by two types of people....young dare devils who want SPEED (crotch rockets) and older men who like cruising (harelys)
# 3 - insurance !!!
Not all older guys like cruisers (especially Harleys). I am 43 and I sure don't. And I ride with over a dozen guys my age or older and only one has a Harley. The rest of us ride crotch rockets or in my case a Tiger, which is just a crotch rocket with an upright sitting position. And at our age, the insurance is cheap.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Talented
I have an old Yamaha RD 350 from 1974 in the barn.But maybe that's a mediumsized motorcycle.
At low rews it were weak like a 50 cc scooter.But at high rews it turned in to a dangerously fast missile [:)] awfully fast.
You know, like pull the gas and nothing happens,then nothing happens and then something starts to happen (nice finally) and then opps iiiiIIIIIIHHH Ziiiiiing !
Is it for sale?
You do know you have a very desirable collectible, and a fast one.
I had a RD400 that would eat 4 cylinder 750s all day long.0 -
The decline of small bikes is due to an excess of testoserone!!!!!When I went looking for a new bike in '04 there was really nothing available I wanted except the Royal Enfied 500 or 350. Lack of a reliable dealer put a stop to that. I ended up with a yamaha Vstar 650.Nice bike but not what I wanted. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Talented
I have an old Yamaha RD 350 from 1974 in the barn.But maybe that's a mediumsized motorcycle.
At low rews it were weak like a 50 cc scooter.But at high rews it turned in to a dangerously fast missile [:)] awfully fast.
You know, like pull the gas and nothing happens,then nothing happens and then something starts to happen (nice finally) and then opps iiiiIIIIIIHHH Ziiiiiing !
I had one of those RD350s. Those bikes are light and really fast if you keep the revs up. It would beat Honda 750s stoplight to stoplight. Top speed on mine was around 110mph slightly downhill with a tail wind. Missed a gear once when I was getting on it, it pegged the tachometer and shattered a piston.[B)] Rebuilt it and drove it another two years. Ended up trading it to my brother for a Fiat.0 -
'on any sunday' sold more jap bikes than any other marketing plan in history.
small bikes were marketed for fun and economics.
what happened was, the market exploded and places to ride became less and less. a lot of owners broke laws and started riding dirt bikes on streets, on private property, and started wrapping themselves around trees. back then, safety laws werent in place.
in the 60's/70's small bikes are what atv's are today. the dreaded rec-vehicle.
remember, the 60's and early 70's were muscle car years and having little putt putts on the road caused a big stink.
laws were made so that you couldnt go on highways unless it was 250cc and then helmet laws, then mandatory turn signal laws, then tire laws,,,,,,,,,etc...... blah blah blah....basically the small bike game got old. then the gas crunch came. epa emissions killed the 2 strokes. then everyone wanted commuter bikes like 350cc's and etc. it went from small to mid-size bikes, then to road crusiers like the goldwing 1000.
then the widow makers came out.
the H2's, the z's, honda 6, all the muscle bikes.
then came long suspension. then mono shocks.
then 400 and 600cc dirt bikes took over.
small bikes with 3" travel got left behind. the breed died.
small bikes are like old tractors in peoples yards sitting rusting. once proud treasures of history. today just a memory.
the 60's and 70's were the manufacturers testing grounds. 80% of what was made one year was obsolete the next year.
air cool, water cool, 4 speed 6 speed, 21" 23" 17" 19" 18" tires. this combo that combo...whew! you couldnt keep up. but if you did, your yard started to look like a dealership of mistakes lined up as far as the eye could see.
all the time the companies were raking in your hard earned cash.
i learned a long time ago that you had to get off the capitalizm ride, be satisfied, and stop looking or it would consume you.
im glad i did.
all thats left now is:
2- 71 SL125'S
1- H2C KAWASAKI TRIPLE
1- 73 CL450K5
and i ride them all to this day.0 -
I started out on one zactly like this.... The Super Simplex...Worth a small fortune today.... 
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I like both ends of the spectrum.
On one hand, my '79 KZ1300(its slow but it gets crummy gas mileage).
On the other, my '79 Yamaha SR500, kick only. 55mpg. People whisper when I go by. Don't know what they're saying but I can usually make out the words 'monkey' and 'football'.[:D]0 -
I find it interesting that the standard against which all other street bikes are measured is the Honda 750. The small bike standards also seem to be set by Honda.
In the early '70s, my best Friend - now my Father-in-Law - was a track steward at Ontario Motor Speedway. I had an early 450 Honda and he had a built Kawasaki 500 triple (2 stroke). As a result of his position, and our friendship, I had the opportunity to ride many different bikes on the track, and see what speeds they would do on the electronic timers. His Kaw was timed at 161, my fastest 450 - a '69 - would do 117. My built 750 Honda (with a Power Roll 836 kit) did a best of 128. The fastest I ever road there was 143 on a Z-1 Kawasaki 900, another UJM, which, at the time, was the undisputed king of the street for production bikes.
As mentioned by bobski, these were the muscle car days, and there was a lot of very fast iron out on the streets of LA. It was not unusual to be at Bob's or The Pit on a weekend evening and see guys in full-house race cars getting a Coke and a Hot Pastrami. Several (NHRA) A and B Class Supercharged cars were always around - GMC blown Chrysler 392 Hemis, 450 inch injected (straight-stack mechanical Hilborns) Oldsmobiles, zippy little small block Chevy's and some really marginal FE Fords. Most with B&M 4 speed stick Hydros and racing slicks - not DOT approved - I'm not even sure that the DOT existed, then. No cars had ANY electronics. Along with this mix of brutal big-blocks were the hard corps biker trash, with some really outlandish put-togethers. I particularly remember a welder named Roger Hitchcock who built himself a two wheeled street bike that he constructed around a mildly built 327 Chev. Roger weighed about 350, and the bike(?) wasn't particularly fast, but it could melt the big M&H slick into blindingly thick clouds of pungent rubber smoke. I could go on and on - wait, I already have - so I guess a little more won't hurt.
In those days, there were no smog laws, you could purchase a firearm and walk out the door with it, and no-one had even imagined unleaded gas. We shot at Grandad's Ranch, on the back side of Angeles Crest Highway, and raced at Lions or Irwindale Dragstrips, or out on Arrow Highway, in the middle of the night. All the present 1911 gunsmiths didn't exist - No Wilson Combat - that's hard to imagine.
The air - thick with smog as it was - tingled with 24 hour a day excitement. The sights, sounds and smells, and the thrills are etched into my soul.
I feel badly for the younger people that never have had a chance to experience those days of unregulated excitement. I know that it's impossible for you guys to even imagine what it was like, I wish you would have the chance to experience those days of unregulated fun.
You missed a lot.
Sorry for the hijack.
Doug0 -
Wow, Doug you are an old guy!
Remember this??
[img][/img]
and this:
[img][/img]0 -
my father has been trying to find an old trail 90 for the past 20 years. i'd love to get him one for his birthday. 0 -
[:)] The RD 350's is worth money nowadays ? Nice to hear.But i think it still would'nt be worth it to ship it over to you.But it would be nice to hear how much they're worth over there.
I just used it for one year when i were 18 after that something happened and it did'nt want to run properly unless on high revs.Eventually it did'nt start anymore.Its been sitting there in the barn now for about 20 years.Now with some light powdwerrust on the cromedetails ,but only bout 1250 miles on the meter.0 -
quote:Originally posted by sig232
Wow, Doug you are an old guy!
Remember this??
[img][/img]
Is that a 65 Cutlas or a 65 442?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Talented
[:)] The RD 350's is worth money nowadays ? Nice to hear.But i think it still would'nt be worth it to ship it over to you.But it would be nice to hear how much they're worth over there.
I just used it for one year when i were 18 after that something happened and it did'nt want to run properly unless on high revs.Eventually it did'nt start anymore.Its been sitting there in the barn now for about 20 years.Now with some light powdwerrust on the cromedetails ,but only bout 1250 miles on the meter.
Probably just needs a tune up and the carbs cleaned and it'll run great.0 -
"In the early '70s, my best Friend - now my Father-in-Law - was a track steward at Ontario Motor Speedway. I had an early 450 Honda and he had a built Kawasaki 500 triple (2 stroke)"
Parallel universe, Doug.
In the early seventies, I had a Honda 450 and my brother had the triple Kawasaki 2 stroke, you may recall it was named the Mach 3 500.
I know the 450 had plenty of power, because my brother rode on the back with me for a couple hundred miles up I85. We were doing 70, and we each weighed 200 pounds.
As for that Mach 3 500, in 1970 or 71 it was rated as the fastest production vehicle in the world. Had a separate oil tank, with oil injection.
I got that thing up to 125 on the Atlanta perimeter highway one night. That is something to pass a car, which is doing 60, and it looks like it is standing still.0 -
quote:Originally posted by bigtire
quote:Originally posted by sig232
Wow, Doug you are an old guy!
Remember this??
[img][/img]
Is that a 65 Cutlas or a 65 442?
That is the Olds 442, four speed close ratio tranny, 400 cube engine, 350 hp and posi-trac rear end with 3.55 gears. Quick little car. bought it new when I was a student going to Indiana University in 1965.0 -
'65 and '66 were pretty damn good years. I had gotten out of the Army in '64 and was attending college at an extension service of LA State. In that time, Southern California was the heart of the car/bike subculture. Cars were cheap, as were bikes - I paid $995 out the door for my new 450 Honda in 1969 - and insurance companies hadn't yet figured out that people were actually driving/riding FAST. In a five year period starting in 1964, I owned 14 '57 Fords and a couple three '55s - almost all were street racers. I am pretty sure that I could still rebuild a Y-Block Ford, even today, without a shop manual. Big Willie and the LA Brotherhood of Street Racers were doing their thing in Compton and at Lions Drag Strip. I have no idea what the concealed carry laws were - just that I mostly carried my Brother's Model 60 or 36 in the hip pocket of my Levis.
Those years - '65 & '66 - were before pony cars got very fast - Barracudas, Mustangs, Camaros and Firebirds - so speedy people had to drive the first generation of Muscle Cars. Chevy had not put a big block 396 in the Malibu until late '66 and GMs fast line-up was Olds 442s (Four on the floor, Four barrel carb, and dual[2] exhausts), Buick Skylarks, and the legendary Pontiac GTO ("three deuces and a four speed"). Ford had 427 Fairlanes (the Thunderbolt), Chrysler put the Street Hemi into Dodge Coronets and Plymouth Belevederes, as well as cross-ram 426 wedges. AMC had a 343 in the Rambler and Studebaker had a Supercharged 289 BIG BLOCK. Standard Oil (Chevron) - white pump gas - Custom Supreme - was the hot ticket for high compression engines of 11 to 1 up to 12.5 to one. On the East Coast it was Sunoco 260 for those guys.
Gotta go.
More later.
Doug
* edited for content0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
'65 and '66 were pretty damn good years. I had gotten out of the Army in '64 and was attending college at an extension service of LA State. In that time, Southern California was the heart of the car/bike subculture. Cars were cheap, as were bikes - I paid $995 out the door for my new 450 Honda in 1969 - and insurance companies hadn't yet figured out that people were actually driving/riding FAST. In a five year period starting in 1964, I owned 14 '57 Fords and a couple three '55s - almost all were street racers. I am pretty sure that I could still rebuild a Y-Block Ford, even today, without a shop manual. Big Willie and the LA Brotherhood of Street Racers were doing their thing in Compton and at Lions Drag Strip. I have no idea what the concealed carry laws were - just that I mostly carried my Brother's Model 60 or 36 in the hip pocket of my Levis.
Those years - '65 & '66 - were before pony cars got very fast - Barracudas, Mustangs, Camaros and Firebirds - so speedy people had to drive the first generation of Muscle Cars. Chevy had not put a big block 396 in the Malibu until late '66 and GMs fast line-up was Olds 442s (Four on the floor, Four barrel carb, and dual[2] exhausts), Buick Skylarks, and the legendary Pontiac GTO ("three deuces and a four speed"). Ford had 427 Fairlanes (the Thunderbolt), Chrysler put the Street Hemi into Dodge Coronets and Plymouth Belevederes. AMC had a 343 in the Rambler and Studebaker had a Supercharged 289 BIG BLOCK. Standard Oil (Chevron) - white pump gas - Custom Supreme - was the hot ticket for high compression engines of 11 to 1 up to 12.5 to one. On the East Coast it was Sunoco 260 for those guys.
Gotta go.
More later.
Doug
Preach on Doug damn straight!0 -
quote:Originally posted by aramisvi
my father has been trying to find an old trail 90 for the past 20 years. i'd love to get him one for his birthday.
The question is... does he want the "old" one with the overlay sprockets or the "new" on with the hi/low range trans?0 -
iceracerx,
i have no idea. it was his first motorcycle when he was in his 20's. at one point he had a honda 750, don't remember the model, late 70's early 80's. sold it when i was 5 or 6.0 -
I know where there is a couple Trail 90s. Neither one for sale.
Here are some on ebay
http://motors.search.ebay.com/trail-90_Motorcycles_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQcatrefZC12QQfromZR40QQsacatZ60240
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