Just a thought!
Alot of you guys say that you have a thousand rounds plus sitting around in case SHTF. I my self have mags loaded and ready to go!If I buy rounds I always pick up a mag or two.For my 9mm I have 10 mags for my 45 I have 20,how about you![?]
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I have a few but I don't keep them loaded. Long term storage of loaded mags tends to reduce the spring effectiveness. I don't live in or near a dangerous neighborhood so I don't worry much.
During the Rodney King riots in LA I had every mag in the house loaded up and was ready for the war. That was a wake up call I can assure you.
I do think its smart to buy large capacity mags now before this group of Congressional bad guys/gals has a chance to do their dirty work on the second amendment.0 -
I have 5 mags for my Ruger 10-22 rifle and 5 or 6 for my Ruger .22 pistol. Reason being, I have lots of .22 ammo sitting around right now. BTW, none of them are loaded.
Jon0 -
nice reply! Anybody know the reduction in spring loaded mags?
Month or years?0 -
quote:Originally posted by SG_Niner
Alot of you guys say that you have a thousand rounds plus sitting around in case SHTF.
[:0][:0][:0]
Guns?
Ammo?
Mags sitting around the house for just in case?
Not me. No siree.
[;)][;)][;)]0 -
quote:nice reply! Anybody know the reduction in spring loaded mags?
Month or years?
The common answer is the you should cycle the spring once a month.
I have only had one mag go bad from being loaded to long. It was a Ruger 10-22 that was left loaded for 15 years.
Most of my guns are single shots, so I don't have to worry about keeping mags layng around.0 -
Thanks! 0 -
I really don't think any of us will live long enough to see a detrimental effect on mag springs by leaving them loaded. However, I'm so anal about it that I always jack my truck up every evening when I get home. I don't want the weight of that truck to eventually flatten it's springs.[:D][:o)] 0 -
Don't you worry about the compression effects on the jack hydralics? I know I do, and that is why I rotate my jacks so they only get used every third night. 0 -
[8D]--I only keep two of my 1911 mags loaded and cycled--
--[:D][:D]--JIMBO0 -
What wundudnee said.
Doug0 -
quote:Originally posted by SG_Niner
Alot of you guys say that you have a thousand rounds plus sitting around in case SHTF. I my self have mags loaded and ready to go!If I buy rounds I always pick up a mag or two.For my 9mm I have 10 mags for my 45 I have 20,how about you![?]
Speaking strictly in terms of SHTF
For a sidearm, I see little point in keeping that many mags loaded.
A pistol is an immediate defensive weapon. If a threat is in pistol range, I've already screwed up.
Basically speaking, I'd rather pack extra 6 mags for my rifle than 6 extra mags for my pistol.
JMHO
BTW: The myth about keeping mags loaded over time has been debunked on here several times. Spring weakness comes from the number of compressions, not the duration.....0 -
I recommend to all of my Range Officers to change Mags in the Spring when you change the time. And rotate again in the Fall when you set the clocks back. This keeps the Mags springs strong and they should last a lifetime under normal use. 0 -
Magazine spring madness: 'creep' to your 'elastic limit' to un-earth the urban legend of 'spring-set'
American Handgunner, May-June, 2003 by John S. Layman
The shooting sports are full of some of the most knowledgeable and capable people you'll meet anywhere. I've been impressed consistently with the abilities of those I meet at the range to diagnose and fix a gun problem with as little as some spray lube and a cotton swab. However, sometimes a myth will creep into the folklore.
The magazine spring myth has been around for many years and is growing in popularity. It goes something like this: "You should unload your magazines when they're not in use or the spring will weaken causing failures to feed." This has gone as far as shooting competitors actually unloading their magazines between stages to extend the life of their springs. A variant of this myth is: "You should never load a magazine to capacity and should always leave it one round short." What if you need that round some day?
Recently, I read an article in a gun magazine suggesting you rotate your magazines so the ones not in use can "recover and rest." The same author uses the phrase "spring-set" to describe weakness of a spring because it was compressed for a long time. Hogwash. There's nothing further from the truth. Springs don't care how long they're compressed and don't require rest, recreation or even a vacation from time to time.
To put this one to rest, you have to understand creep. Creep is the slow flow of a non-ferric metal like copper, brass and lead under force. At temperatures outside of a furnace, steel doesn't have any appreciable creep. Under most conditions, steel flexes and then returns to its original shape. When pushed past its elastic limit, steel will bend and not return to its original shape. All designers of well-made magazines make sure the spring never approaches the elastic limit when the magazine is fully loaded. Honest. This means the spring will not weaken when the magazine is fully loaded -- not even over an extended time. Like 50 years. American Handgunner recently ran a story about a magazine full of .45 ACP that had been sitting since WWII and it ran just fine on the first try. So there you go.
Now that the light of truth is leaking out, lets talk about what is causing failures to feed. The only way to weaken a magazine spring is to flex it past its normal range (elastic limit). If this is happening, somebody is trying to overload a magazine or has "adjusted" it by bending the spring. Both of these could cause feed failures. Shame on you if you're a spring bender.
Carlton Nether, Customer Service for Beretta USA, tells us keeping a pistol magazine loaded for an extended period doesn't cause magazine spring failure, however, failures to feed can result. He says, "The ammo will 'roll' in the magazine. If the mags are kept loaded and moved around a lot -- say on a cop's belt -- the rolling action can, over time, cause creases in the cases. These creases can cause malfunctions. Also the top bullet will roll against the magazine lips and creasing can occur there as well. Just check old ammo that's been bouncing around in a magazine for a long time.
We tell police officers if they keep loaded magazines, take a few seconds to "cycle" the ammo. Periodically unload the mag and reload it in a different sequence. This movement will allow the bullets to be in different parts of the magazine and help eliminate creasing.
At STI, Dave Skinner, President and CEO says, "Personally, I rotate my 'under the bed' and 'under the seat' mags about every six months. I always empty them the 'fun' way and have never had a failure." Given what we learned above, this sounds like a good idea. Smith and Wesson customer service also says magazines can stay loaded indefinitely without hurting the spring.
As we add force onto a spring, it will displace the same amount for each amount of force we add. This is true until the spring passes a certain point called the elastic limit. Robert Hooke discovered this theory back in 1660. Hooke's Law states: "If the applied forces on a body are not too large, the deformations resulting are directly proportional to the forces producing them." Which means, in actual human being language, if we load a spring past its elastic limit, it permanently deforms. It still provides a force against the load but the force is no longer proportional. If this happens, when we unload the spring (such as when we empty a magazine that has been over-loaded) the spring never returns to a state where it can provide the same load for the same amount of displacement.
Trust Us
When a magazine manufacturer designs a spring, they plan for a preload. The spring is already compressed some in the magazine. On the curve below, this would be Point A. The spring compression would be designed to be below the Elastic Limit. When fully compressed, the spring would be at Point B. If the spring is ever compressed past the elastic limit, say to Point C, it won't ever behave the same. Like a recalcitrant lazy Uncle, it will have a lower spring force for each amount of displacement. On the drawing, the spring would now cycle between points D and E. This means that -- particularly with the last bullet or two -- the force pushing the bullet up would be less and lo-and-behold, a mis-feed might occur.
When somebody stretches your spring to "fix" your magazine, they are trying to get you back on the original curve. They may get pretty close, however, it's unlikely the spring will ever perform to its original design. The elastic limit is now shifted lower and your magazine spring may fail to perform fairly quickly.
Having said all this, if you have a magazine that isn't feeding right, what should you do? First, disassemble the magazine and clean it thoroughly. Then try it with new, factory ammunition in a freshly cleaned gun. This takes away some of the possible causes. If you are still having feed problems, send it back. Even the low cost, after-market magazine manufacturers will fix the problem at no cost to you other than shipping. If it's a magazine from the gun's manufacturer, let them troubleshoot and repair the problem. Otherwise, toss the mag. It's not worth risking your life to save a few bucks. And that's the truth.
Creep: The flow or plastic deformation of metals held for long periods of time at stresses lower than the normal yield strength.
Elastic Limit: The maximum stress that material will stand before permanent deformation occurs.
Yield Strength: The stress at which the metal changes from elastic to plastic in behavior, i.e., takes a permanent set.
Permanent Set: Non-elastic or plastic, deformation of metal under stress, after passing the elastic limit.
Magazine Recommendations
* Clean your magazines when they get gritty. Apply oil then remove all excess. Oil attracts dirt that may cause malfunction.
* If you find rust on the spring, this is culprit. Rust changes the thickness of the metal and reduces the force applied to the follower. Cleaning off the rust may help. For a gun you depend on, replace the spring. All the major brands and most of the smaller ones have replacement mag springs available or try Wolff Springs.
* If you keep a magazine loaded for long periods, rotate the rounds every few months. If you carry a pistol on the job or in your car, cycle the ammo frequently. These actions prevent creases from forming which may cause a misfeed.
* If you experience feed problems, first clean your magazines and weapon. Fire a couple magazines of new factory ammo to see if this resolves the problem. If not send the magazine back to the manufacturer -- or toss it.0 -
quote:Originally posted by He Dog
Don't you worry about the compression effects on the jack hydralics? I know I do, and that is why I rotate my jacks so they only get used every third night.
Oh Crikey, I had never thought about the chance of my jacks taking a set! Now I've got something else to worry about.[:0] But I think you can restretch that hydraulic fluid to it's original volume.0 -
quote:I don't want the weight of that truck to eventually flatten it's springs.
I take it that you have never owned a car long enough to replace a set of springs then?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mk 19
quote:I don't want the weight of that truck to eventually flatten it's springs.
I take it that you have never owned a car long enough to replace a set of springs then?
Oh yeah, I've replaced springs. But it was because of breakage from overloads, not from the weight of the vehicle sitting on them. There are still quite a few Model A Fords running around on Sundays with springs produced in 1928-31 and they haven't gone flat yet.
Now if I had a 1400's matchlock, or an early flintlock, I might worry about the quality of the springs. But they have come some distance in the technology of metalurgy and I think they've figured that spring steel thing out now. I don't think a "good" mag spring will ever fail in your's or my life times, loaded or unloaded.
However, like my truck, I never leave my ball point pens in the locked and loaded condition.0 -
I always jack up my car at night in case I get a flat the next day.[;)] 0 -
For those needed flintlock and matchlock springs - call Wolff !!
They have everything.
Doug0 -
Anectodal evidence...
I have a Ruger Mk II, and about 10 mags for it. The mags sat loaded in the case with the pistol for 14 years, fed and fired fine as soon as I took it to the range.
I've also read about a loaded 1911 mag from WW2 being shot recently with no issues.0 -
quote:
Originally posted by Mk 19
quote:
I don't want the weight of that truck to eventually flatten it's springs.
I take it that you have never owned a car long enough to replace a set of springs then?
Oh yeah, I've replaced springs. But it was because of breakage from overloads, not from the weight of the vehicle sitting on them. There are still quite a few Model A Fords running around on Sundays with springs produced in 1928-31 and they haven't gone flat yet.
Now if I had a 1400's matchlock, or an early flintlock, I might worry about the quality of the springs. But they have come some distance in the technology of metalurgy and I think they've figured that spring steel thing out now. I don't think a "good" mag spring will ever fail in your's or my life times, loaded or unloaded.
However, like my truck, I never leave my ball point pens in the locked and loaded condition.
The question is not if the springs go flat, it is whether the springs will still be at there best performance. In my old race car I would replace the springs after every season to make sure that the handling was always up to par. I have also had older cars that would not hold an alignment, the problem was the springs themselves.
The mag that I had go bad did not fail, but it would no longer feed in any of my 10-22's or 77-22. So I agree with you, a mag will not fail in my life time, but that mag may quit feeding properly do to reduced spring pressure.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mk 19
quote:
Originally posted by Mk 19
quote:
I don't want the weight of that truck to eventually flatten it's springs.
I take it that you have never owned a car long enough to replace a set of springs then?
Oh yeah, I've replaced springs. But it was because of breakage from overloads, not from the weight of the vehicle sitting on them. There are still quite a few Model A Fords running around on Sundays with springs produced in 1928-31 and they haven't gone flat yet.
Now if I had a 1400's matchlock, or an early flintlock, I might worry about the quality of the springs. But they have come some distance in the technology of metalurgy and I think they've figured that spring steel thing out now. I don't think a "good" mag spring will ever fail in your's or my life times, loaded or unloaded.
However, like my truck, I never leave my ball point pens in the locked and loaded condition.
The question is not if the springs go flat, it is whether the springs will still be at there best performance. In my old race car I would replace the springs after every season to make sure that the handling was always up to par. I have also had older cars that would not hold an alignment, the problem was the springs themselves.
The mag that I had go bad did not fail, but it would no longer feed in any of my 10-22's or 77-22. So I agree with you, a mag will not fail in my life time, but that mag may quit feeding properly do to reduced spring pressure.
You're right, I'm wrong.[:D] You probably better do what makes you happy.0 -
quote:You're right, I'm wrong. You probably better do what makes you happy.
AHHhhh, come on now, don't quit......
I'm in the mood to argue about things that have no importance [:D]0 -
I have 5 mags for my Sig, and 5 mags for my AR. I'm buying only HK mags for my AR they feel much stronger and better then any other mags I've tried, they are expensive though but worth it if they last. Going to keep buying them here and there until I have 10 at least. 0
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