Pros/Cons of a diesel truck
I'm thinking about buying a Dodge Ram diesel. I don't know much about diesels. I've heard they pull alot better then gas engines and you can drive them forever. That is a big point for me because I'm not wanting to buy another truck for a very long time. I know in Alaska most of the diesel trucks had cords sticking out the grills to warm the glow plugs if I'm not mistaken. That is about all I think I know.
So what are the pros and cons of having a diesel over a gas engine?
So what are the pros and cons of having a diesel over a gas engine?
0
-
That cord you saw was to keep the motor from freezing in the cold. Many people also use that on gas motors in very cold weather.
Diesel should last alot longer than a gas motor as long as you do your regular services.
Alot of the reason for this is a diesel operates at lower RPM's.
They do have alot better tourqe for pulling heavy loads and will get better mileage while pulling those loads.
Really the only reason I do not have a p/u truck right now is I cannot afford to go out and spent $50k on a diesel truck right now.
But diesel is the way to go!0 -
Just like AK, here in MT we use heater plugs on both diesel and gas engines during those harsh winters.
I C&P this off another forum ...
On large vehicles (full size pickups up to semi-trucks) diesel will get better mileage than gas.
Diesel will take a while to warm up and you sometimes have to use a glow plug option that uses battery power to warm the engine before you can actually start it, with gas you can just turn the key and go.
Diesel will cost more to maintain because there are fewer mechanics available, most mechanics only do gasoline engines so the ones who can do diesel can get away with charging more.
Diesel is harder to find, meaning only some gas stations offer diesel, you have to look around until you find one that has it, you can't just get it at any station in town.
Diesel engines are often louder, though not always the case.
Diesel exhaust will smell worse
Overall, if you are picking out a full size truck, especially for heavy duty hauling (like pulling a camper/trailer etc) and for freeway use, the diesel will be the better mileage and the cheaper to operate.
Good luck!0 -
There is a "exhaust filter" on the newer Dodges, and it requires regular replacment. IIRC they cost $3,000 each. Something to think about.
Analize your driving needs, and try to be honest with yourself. IE: if your 90% of the time driver only no cargo, 9.9% of your driver + 1 no cargo than skip the PU and get a midsize car and learn where your local trailer rental place is.0 -
I should add that the Cummins motor in the Dodge p/u's is a top notch motor.
It is a scaled down model of the 350hp cummins motor that has been used in semi's for lots of years.
I recomend you either stay with the dodge cummins or the Ford Power stroke, as both of these are proven motors and have been around quite a while with owners hitting well over 500,000 miles and in alot of cases getting up towards 1,000,000 miles.
The Chevy duramax diesel is still too new for my blood and needs a few more years of road service to prove itself as a motor that will stand the test of time and miles.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Tailgunner1954
There is a "exhaust filter" on the newer Dodges, and it requires regular replacment. IIRC they cost $3,000 each. Something to think about.
Analize your driving needs, and try to be honest with yourself. IE: if your 90% of the time driver only no cargo, 9.9% of your driver + 1 no cargo than skip the PU and get a midsize car and learn where your local trailer rental place is.
I have a car that gets decent MPG right now. I run into the problem of not being able to haul things I want. I also can't take my camaro hunting and toss a dead animal in the back, hell a rifle won't even fit. So I'd like a 4x4 pickup now. I'm just trying to decide whether or not to get a diesel or gas powered truck. I won't be hauling loads hardly ever if ever, but love the idea of owning a truck for 500,000 or more miles.
More then likely after I buy a truck I'll buy a little used corolla or civic for my commuter driving.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Kodiakk
quote:Originally posted by Tailgunner1954
There is a "exhaust filter" on the newer Dodges, and it requires regular replacment. IIRC they cost $3,000 each. Something to think about.
Analize your driving needs, and try to be honest with yourself. IE: if your 90% of the time driver only no cargo, 9.9% of your driver + 1 no cargo than skip the PU and get a midsize car and learn where your local trailer rental place is.
I have a car that gets decent MPG right now. I run into the problem of not being able to haul things I want. I also can't take my camaro hunting and toss a dead animal in the back, hell a rifle won't even fit. So I'd like a 4x4 pickup now. I'm just trying to decide whether or not to get a diesel or gas powered truck. I won't be hauling loads hardly ever if ever, but love the idea of owning a truck for 500,000 or more miles.
More then likely after I buy a truck I'll buy a little used corolla or civic for my commuter driving.
You can't go wrong with the diesel truck for what you describe.
My dad's F-250 4x4 Diesel does get better mileage than my Bronco and most definatly will out pull it.
I think my dad is getting about 19mpg out of his.0 -
My dad had a diesel for many years. It was a 1983 Mercedes 300SD. He put about 150 thousand miles on it.
It died because the engine seized. The engine seized because my dad never changed the oil after the warranty expired. Ever. He firmly believed that unless the idiot light came on, that your oil was fine.
Frankly, I'm surprised the engine lasted as long as it did. He'd probably still be driving it around today if he had changed the oil once every 20,000 miles or so.
These days, he drives a 4runner (gas). I told him that he's on his own with oil changes, but that I didn't want to get a phone call in blizzard conditions with his asking me to pick him up because his engine seized.
He now changes his oil every 5000 miles.0 -
being from a farm background the diesels were our bigger tractors. But that cord is to make sure it starts in the winter time. Antifreeze keeps the motor from freezing up. Diesels have are Dependant on high compression ratio to make the air hot in the cylinder then inject fuel and there is no spark. In cold weather this is the diesels downfall. A gasser is going to start without a plug 9 time out of 10 in the winter a diesel however is maybe only two. 0 -
Mostly good information above, but with a few errors.
Unlike the PowerStroke or DuraMax, the Cummins does not use glow plugs. Rather, it has a heater grid that warms intake air. This may make no difference to you, but it's a significant difference from the others. Research it for yourself.
The Cummins is a heavy duty inline six. The others are a light duty V-8. Cummins has less moving parts and is a cast iron engine. The others aren't. Cummins has a much longer TBO than the others.
DuraMax has pretty well shed it's teething problems. Ford hasn't. Contrary to what has previously been said, Ford has been searching for a good diesel answer for almost a decade. Look on the internet and you'll see what I mean. They change engines faster than body styles.
There is a reason!
2010 (I believe) emission laws are being met using EGR technology by all makers that I'm aware of. This has caused Dodge to go from the 5.9L engine to the larger 6.7L (as I remember) engine. It delivers the same rated hp and torque as the smaller engine with a slight penalty in economy.
EGR causes a soot build-up in the cat and requires a regeneration cycle to take place. This essentially causes raw fuel to be introduced into the cat. The resulting fire burns the soot out of the system. Ford has had a bit of a problem with this when a glitch in their software allowed the cycle to take place as the vehicle was at idle. The results were unpopular with drivers caught next to the flamethrowers for some reason. (There is a required maintenance interval for these vehicles, but it's certainly NOT a $3,000 item.)
Smell... ULSD and cat-equipped diesels don't have the odor associated with older engines.
Noise... Common rail diesels have eliminated the old mechanical injection pumps. They make very little noise, though you can still tell that they're a diesel.
Economy - Diesel fuel has more energy content per unit than gasoline. Thus, you may expect better economy overall. Winter fuel will cut your economy by as much as 20% as thinners are added. Gelling has been a major issue with ULSD, though I haven't experienced a problem myself.
Maintenance... Keep your filters clean. A master diesel mechanic (and a close friend) commented to me that filters are 99% of diesel maintenance. Somewhat in jest he said that if you have a blown headlamp, you might best replace the filters and it will fix the lamp problem. Otherwise it's unlikely that you'll need the services of a diesel mechanic.
Learn to drive the diesel properly. The Cummins is not a gasser! Rev that engine over 2k rpm's and your economy will go down the chute... But you'll soon discover that torque comes on at 1500 rpm's and lower, so there's no need for high rpm's.
Overall mileage? Obviously it depends on what you're doing. Running light in mixed rural driving with a bit of stop and go, my '04.5 2500 will easily break 21 mpg (summer fuel). 75 mph expressway will drop things to the 19 - 20 mpg range. In-town stop & go will net 17 mpg.
All in all... Go diesel. I prefer the Cummins, but Ford and Chevy make good products. Do what you think is best for you.0 -
One thing to note about the cummins they are I almost postive short stroke motors which makes for a damn good truck motor. On the farms i grew up on we called them cum aparts. They are good in stock configuration but boost the power and your asking for problems. 0 -
I bought a 1980 VW Diesel Pick-up used, in 1981 - drove it over 250,000 miles after I bought it, and it was running when I sold it.
During that period, I put three cylinder heads on it, and two rebuilt engines in it. Even though that was an awful lot of wrenching, it turned out to be the cheapest car I have ever owned/mile. Licenses, insurance, batteries, fuel, tires, etc., that vehicle cost me less than $.25/mile.
My best buddy drove a 300SD over 300,000 miles and sold it in running condition. He bought it new.
My 1994 Chevy Fullsize Blazer has GM's 6.5 Liter Turbo-Diesel V-8 in it - I bought it used, in 1995. It now has 150,000 miles on it. I blew up the rear end about three years ago, and I had a quickie rebuild done at the Chevy Dealer. That rear end lasted till this January, and I blame the intrinsic weakness of the chevy design differential and the cheap rebuild for the failures. It is now going into the shop for a rebuild by Off-Road folks...I am hoping to drive it 50,000 miles more, then I will sell it. It has cost me nearly $.90 per mile so far, still pretty good, especially in view of higher fuel costs.
The Motor has not been a problem, but other things are getting old - the interior furniture, and the weather stripping that keeps water off the rugs, etc. Give some careful thought to the rest of the vehicle before you plan on keeping a vehicle over twenty years...
The best part of owning a light duty diesel is that the maintenance is limited to fuel & air filter service/replacement, oil changes, and care that you get good fuel, and keep the condensation drained from the fuel system.
You pay lots extra buying the things, but you get it back over the long run in lower maintenance costs. BUT, if you have to do any motor service, prepare to be shocked!! Diesel bits have to have much finer tolerances, and more strength, too - for which you have to pay.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Kodiakk
I have a car that gets decent MPG right now. I run into the problem of not being able to haul things I want. I also can't take my camaro hunting and toss a dead animal in the back, hell a rifle won't even fit. So I'd like a 4x4 pickup now. I'm just trying to decide whether or not to get a diesel or gas powered truck. I won't be hauling loads hardly ever if ever, but love the idea of owning a truck for 500,000 or more miles.
More then likely after I buy a truck I'll buy a little used corolla or civic for my commuter driving.
I've hauled 2 dead deer, my wife and both our rifles (I let the wife sit inside [:D]) in my Park Ave, plus taken the Park "off road" more times than 95% of the 4x4 owners have ever taken thier "off road vehicles" off road. A couple of the places I've taken it (stream crossings) my buddies ATV has to struggle to get across.
My buddy uses his Toyota and a small trailer to do his hunt hauling.
But if you feel the need to spend $30+K on a toy to impress your buddies, than go for it.0 -
Any Ford with a 300 ci six cylinder and a manual transmission, can't go wrong. 0 -
I have a 99 ford power stroke with 240,000 miles on it. I have never had the valve covers off yet. I drive about 125 miles a day and get 20-24 miles per gallon. The newer diesels will not get that milage and my 96 dodge 1 ton with the cummins got 26 mph average. I have talked with a bunch of new truck owners( dodge,ford, chevy) and nobody is getting 20 mph. I don't know why, but the older ones got better mileage. I run Amsol in mine and change the oil and filters every 20,000. Many here in the south just change their filters and add quart of oil and some have over 350,000 on the original oil, but they are running dual oil filters. Ford bought cummins a few years back and dodge had 15 years to come up with their own engine so some are saying that they think it is going to be Cat. Ford will have a good engine when they are done letting dodge use their cummins motor. I am waiting another year to see what happens with ford's engine program. The 6.0 was a dud. By a diesel. 0 -
www.thedieselstop.com
Will answer a few of your questions, and has a forum.
Most of the posts relate to the Ford line of trucks, however
there is loads of tips/tech data.
My commuter is a Ford Ranger, I have a 2001 F-350 7.3L diesel for
road trips and hauling the trailer.
Good Hunting!0 -
i had a buddy who liked big diesel trucks andhe always said, when comparing Powerstroke to cummins engine, i hope this doesnt get edited, He always said, would you rather be strokin, or cummmin(s)! 0 -
quote:Originally posted by git_r_done
I should add that the Cummins motor in the Dodge p/u's is a top notch motor.
It is a scaled down model of the 350hp cummins motor that has been used in semi's for lots of years.
I recomend you either stay with the dodge cummins or the Ford Power stroke, as both of these are proven motors and have been around quite a while with owners hitting well over 500,000 miles and in alot of cases getting up towards 1,000,000 miles.
The Chevy duramax diesel is still too new for my blood and needs a few more years of road service to prove itself as a motor that will stand the test of time and miles.
The current Ford diesel engine is much newer than the Chevy Duramax! In fact, Ford had to redesign and dump the 6.0L diesel engine in short order. The new Ford diesel is a 6.4L engine.
Dodge (for the 2007 models) also changed to a newer Diesel engine... it is still a Cummins, but it is now a 6.7L versus the old 5.9L that has been around since 1989. The new 6.7L Cummins utilizes 40% of the same parts found in the 5.9L (essentially, it is a bored & stroked version of the 5.9L). The 600 series (introduced in 2004.5) 5.9L Cummins is 360 cubic inches, 325 Hp, 610 ftlb of torque. The new 6.7L Cummins is 408 cubic inches, 350 Hp, 650 ftlb of torque, and it is 50% quieter than the 600 series 5.9L (which is a quiet engine).
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/09/28/023411.html
For Kodiak,
I own a 2005 Dodge Ram 3500 SLT 4x4 Quad Cab (single rear wheel) with the 600 series 5.9L Cummins. I bought the truck new (from Dave Smith Motors, whom I highly recommend) in late December of 2004 (my Xmas present to me), and as of today, I have almost 55,000 miles on it. My overall average fuel economy is 19.7 mpg, and I get as much as 22.5 mpg cruising down the freeway @70 mph... in a 7800 lb truck[^]. Here in the western part of the country, there are more people driving Dodge Rams with the Cummins diesel than there are Fords and Chevys diesels combined.
Real MEN drive a Dodge Ram CTD0 -
quote:Originally posted by gjshaw
I have a 99 ford power stroke with 240,000 miles on it. I have never had the valve covers off yet. I drive about 125 miles a day and get 20-24 miles per gallon. The newer diesels will not get that milage and my 96 dodge 1 ton with the cummins got 26 mph average. I have talked with a bunch of new truck owners( dodge,ford, chevy) and nobody is getting 20 mph. I don't know why, but the older ones got better mileage. I run Amsol in mine and change the oil and filters every 20,000. Many here in the south just change their filters and add quart of oil and some have over 350,000 on the original oil, but they are running dual oil filters. Ford bought cummins a few years back and dodge had 15 years to come up with their own engine so some are saying that they think it is going to be Cat. Ford will have a good engine when they are done letting dodge use their cummins motor. I am waiting another year to see what happens with ford's engine program. The 6.0 was a dud. By a diesel.
Pure urban myth! Dodge will continue using Cummins engines indefinitely. Also, read my post just above this one concerning fuel economy.0 -
quote:Originally posted by catpealer111
Any Ford with a 300 ci six cylinder and a manual transmission, can't go wrong.
Ain't that the truth. Had one that I ran and worked it hard. with a couple rebuids, bet i put near a million miles on.0 -
quote:Originally posted by catpealer111
Any Ford with a 300 ci six cylinder and a manual transmission, can't go wrong.
I was just going to suggest that. Dad got 21 mpg with his this past week.0 -
quote:Originally posted by chrishiher
One thing to note about the cummins they are I almost postive short stroke motors which makes for a damn good truck motor. On the farms i grew up on we called them cum aparts. They are good in stock configuration but boost the power and your asking for problems.
You have it backwards... the Cummins is a long-stroke engine, which is why they develop so much bottom end torque. My 600 series 5.9L develops more torque at idle (425 ftlb @750 rpm) than most gas engines make at peak rpm, and it peaks at 610 ftlb @1600 rpm.0 -
For you Ford diesel fanatics... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navistar_VT_engine 0 -
Probably irrelevant because the cummins tractor motors have a much shorter stroke than the Deere. But we are not talking about tractors. [;)] All diesels are a much longer stroke than a gas. but some are longer than others. In the truck category i will refer to you as i only am familiar with fords 7.3 which is a damn good motor wish they would of kept it. 0 -
I've got a ,85 ford f250 [2 problems with these glow plug controler and injection pump life] 0 -
Bert H.
I stand corrected, thank you for all of your knowledge. As for your fuel milage, it still is not much bettr than 20 and the older cummins got 25 or 26. Thats a big difference when driving 50,000 miles a year.0 -
2003 Chevy with DurMax and Allison tranny. What good is the motor if you can't get the power to the road? Clutches? I don't do clutches.
Buttet proof motor and tranny. You can't go wrong.0 -
quote:Originally posted by gjshaw
Bert H.
I stand corrected, thank you for all of your knowledge. As for your fuel milage, it still is not much bettr than 20 and the older cummins got 25 or 26. Thats a big difference when driving 50,000 miles a year.
The primary reason the newer 600 series Cummins does not get 25-26 mpg that the older Cummins got is the huge difference in horsepower and torque. The original 5.9L Cummins (back in 1989) was a 12-valve engine, and it produced a mere 160 Hp and 400 ftlb of torque. In order to make horsepower & torque in a diesel, you have to use a bit more fuel. FWIW, a good friend of mine bought a 1990 Ram 250 (new) with the older 5.9L Cummins... he was able to get as much as 27 mpg @65 mph cruising down the freeway empty. He owned that truck right up to the time that I bought my 2005 Ram 3500 (and he put just shy of 450,000 trouble free miles on it). When he went for a ride in my Ram 3500 (January 2005), he almost could not stop drooling (I suppose it was the extra 165 Hp and 210 ftlb of torque that got him[:0]). Anyway, he sold his old truck and went to Dave Smith Motors and bought a brand new Ram 2500 CTD... he hasn't wiped the the big grin off his face yet[:D]0 -
One thing I would think about when considering a diesel, is why do people "usually" sell a truck. Is it because they wore the engine out? Usually not. Usually the A/C broke, the radio doesn't work, the seats and dash cracked, etc. The engine is fine. In my mind the only way to justify a diesel is if you drive "a lot" of miles, or pull trailers almost all of the time. Otherwise, you are buying a very expensive (~$5000 last I checked) option that you don't really need. If you can justify it becasue you want it great, but don't tell yourself you need it. 0 -
I buy all of my vehicals used and they usualy have many nagging prolems you mentioned, I can fix anything and enjoy it, so one mans junk etc... 0 -
quote:Originally posted by longsantafe
I buy all of my vehicals used and they usualy have many nagging prolems you mentioned, I can fix anything and enjoy it, so one mans junk etc...
Good point, most used vehicles have buyers. I've bought used vehicles before, and will again. I was just saying that if you are buying a new vehicle your point of view is usually a little different.0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
38 comments