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Try this with your Defense loads

Nighthawk
I try to carry Winchester Lawman in my .40 calibers, going to .357 sig and 9MM I use Corbon or Triton. Ive never had a problem and its always showed good mushrooming results. I carry {185GR+P Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket} in the 1911's that I carry. If you want an easy way to see which one hits the hardest try this. Hang a burlap sack or similar up in a tree filled with sand, ensureing you have a safe background. Shoot the 30lb or so sack with a 9MM = usually no reaction it doesnt move. Now shoot it with a .45 230gr (Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket) and she will swing. Remingtons UMC 230 GR FMJ will swing it a bit as well. The .40 also will rock the hanging sack of sand a bit, as well as the .357 SIG, but there is a whooping difference. When you shoot the sack or old pillow case with the .45acp you will hear a distinct thump.

"Toujours Prett"


"Dont wait until your thirsty to dig a well"
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7 comments

Date Votes
  • LesWVa
    Try that with a .44 Mag using 240 grain JHP and watch the sand go flying out of the back of the bag.
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  • Sigfan
    quote:Originally posted by Nighthawk

    I try to carry Winchester Lawman in my .40 calibers, going to .357 sig and 9MM I use Corbon or Triton. Ive never had a problem and its always showed good mushrooming results. I carry {185GR+P Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket} in the 1911's that I carry. If you want an easy way to see which one hits the hardest try this. Hang a burlap sack or similar up in a tree filled with sand, ensureing you have a safe background. Shoot the 30lb or so sack with a 9MM = usually no reaction it doesnt move. Now shoot it with a .45 230gr (Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket) and she will swing. Remingtons UMC 230 GR FMJ will swing it a bit as well. The .40 also will rock the hanging sack of sand a bit, as well as the .357 SIG, but there is a whooping difference. When you shoot the sack or old pillow case with the .45acp you will hear a distinct thump.

    "Toujours Prett"


    "Dont wait until your thirsty to dig a well"




    Proves absolutely nothing. All you are doing is pushing dead hanging weight, of course the larger cross section of the 45 is going to push it more than the narrower calibers, but that has nothing to do with terminal performance of any of the calibers in real flesh and bone.
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  • Colt Super
    It sure does.

    Doug
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  • Old Fool
    Yep, bigger bullet = faster disablement, all else being equal.
    The .45 ACP and the .40 S&W should be the smallest defense rounds. After all, the KAHR 40 is small enough for almost any type of clothing.

    OldFool.jpg
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  • Sigfan
    quote:Originally posted by Nighthawk

    I try to carry Winchester Lawman in my .40 calibers, going to .357 sig and 9MM I use Corbon or Triton. Ive never had a problem and its always showed good mushrooming results. I carry {185GR+P Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket} in the 1911's that I carry. If you want an easy way to see which one hits the hardest try this. Hang a burlap sack or similar up in a tree filled with sand, ensureing you have a safe background. Shoot the 30lb or so sack with a 9MM = usually no reaction it doesnt move. Now shoot it with a .45 230gr (Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket) and she will swing. Remingtons UMC 230 GR FMJ will swing it a bit as well. The .40 also will rock the hanging sack of sand a bit, as well as the .357 SIG, but there is a whooping difference. When you shoot the sack or old pillow case with the .45acp you will hear a distinct thump.

    "Toujours Prett"


    "Dont wait until your thirsty to dig a well"


    You say: the 45 FMJ and the 40 will move it a BIT, but the 9mm will not. Big deal! Useless test, unless you happen to get attacked by a hanging bag of sand and you wish to make it swing around a BIT.
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  • ElMuertoMonkey
    SigFan,

    I'm not so sure there's a line of volunteers looking to get shot with various calibers, so barring that, things like bags of sand or blocks of gelatin will have to do.[;)]
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  • MrOrange
    This is a simple test of momentum, not energy or tissue effects or whatever. In the fifties they used to use the distance a round moved a pendulum to determine major/minor calibers, basically the same thing with the sand bag, just a bit more defined.

    There's also the "transmission dwell" theory, which posits that the slower a bullet is moving, the more time it has to transmit it's energy to the target, hence a slower projectile, all other things being equal, will move the sand bag further. Classic example being trying to close a bank vault door with a fast punch as opposed to a slow push.

    Now, I'm a big bullet fan, but there was no denying that momentum wasn't the whole story when it became clear (in like what, the 70's?) that 19 out of 20 people hit once with the 125gr JHP .357 load dropped like a puppet with the strings cut and didn't get up again, despite the fact that a LRN .44 Special round would move a pendulum further.

    Bottom line, you could shove the hanging sand bag a lot further than it will move when shot by a fast JHP 9mm round, but which one would you rather use on an armed attacker?
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