Why doesn't the US build more refineries?
I heard this on Rush Limbaugh today. They played a clip from an interview on some news station. A guy that was in charge of some refineries here in the U.S. was being asked if they were to blame for the high gas prices.
He said you could say they are but not for why we would think. He said we haven't built an oil refinery here in this country since the 70s!
He said to build a new refinery in this country would take somebody with extreme wealth willing to take a 10 billion dollar, 10 year investment gamble. The approximate amount of time it would take to break even on the project.
In the climate we live in today, there would be so many hurdles to over-come, namely the enviromentalists, federal, state, county, and local authorities and laws, fights from the locals, the permit process and on and on........that by the time ground was finally broken and the thing was built, it would take roughly 20 years start to finish to get a new refinery up and running.
He went on to say that beyond crude oil, we have to import 12% of our GASOLINE! "That number is likely to increase."
Refineries over-seas are not all capable of producing the different grades of fuels that all of our different cities require. They are also less efficient. They have to get incentives to produce what we need before we can import it.
He said our existing refineries have been modified and slightly upgraded over the years in order to work at maximum efficiency and capacity but it isn't enough.
Basically, it looks like we will continue to import more foreign gasoline because it's far easier to do than build another refinery.
Which means it is more costly to get them to make it properly, and more costly to have it shipped over here, but there are no other options right now.
He said you could say they are but not for why we would think. He said we haven't built an oil refinery here in this country since the 70s!
He said to build a new refinery in this country would take somebody with extreme wealth willing to take a 10 billion dollar, 10 year investment gamble. The approximate amount of time it would take to break even on the project.
In the climate we live in today, there would be so many hurdles to over-come, namely the enviromentalists, federal, state, county, and local authorities and laws, fights from the locals, the permit process and on and on........that by the time ground was finally broken and the thing was built, it would take roughly 20 years start to finish to get a new refinery up and running.
He went on to say that beyond crude oil, we have to import 12% of our GASOLINE! "That number is likely to increase."
Refineries over-seas are not all capable of producing the different grades of fuels that all of our different cities require. They are also less efficient. They have to get incentives to produce what we need before we can import it.
He said our existing refineries have been modified and slightly upgraded over the years in order to work at maximum efficiency and capacity but it isn't enough.
Basically, it looks like we will continue to import more foreign gasoline because it's far easier to do than build another refinery.
Which means it is more costly to get them to make it properly, and more costly to have it shipped over here, but there are no other options right now.
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quote:Originally posted by dlrjj
NIMBY effect.
+1000000
My first carrier was as a Chemical and Petroleum Refining Engineer with an environmental consulting company. Our biggest clients we the refining, transport, and storage companies. The public is so afraid of the environmental and health impacts of anything having to do with the oil industry that it is almost impossible for these companies to get anything done.0 -
I totally agree with the posts that say that the number one goal of any business is to make money, and if building more refineries would make more money, it would be done. The fact is that if the companies are to be believed, i.e., that we don't have the capacity to refine more gas, WHY WOULD THEY BOTHER INCREASING THAT CAPACITY AND CUTTING THEIR OWN TRHOATS? 0 -
All right comrade, go home to mother russia with your propaganda.
Ignorant people who embrace the communist hype that is in vougue are going to help kill this country. Buy a Che shirt & quit typing. I have tried to explain a few concepts, yes I am an econ major, but you keep on with this emotional crap. guess what, your business would be MUCH worse off under socialism.
Odawgp said :
"GUESS WHAT it hurts me finatialy when CAPITALIST PIGS (dont get me wrong making money is everyone's dream but got damm we are talking billions of dollars here, thus the PIGS) "0 -
I am surprised that companies have not built the refineries in Mexico. They don't have any of the EPA issues to deal with or any of the enviormentalists to fight them every step of the way. Enviormentalists become animal food in Mexico!
If you do a little research you will find as I have that "big oil" is investing their excess profits in "ethanol" production. They are buying control of that industry to control pricing in the future. They are also moving to control all the natural gas distribution business. They aren't stupid and will tie up other sources of energy if they are not allowed to invest in refineries or additional drilling within our shores.
I would not be surprised if you will find their dollars in solar farm and wind farm production. You see they have to tie up all energy sources since oil is running out!
They will be into the production of Hydrogen if that ever gets to the point where it is an efficent source of fuel.0 -
You have hit the target, Sig.
Doug0 -
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
I say everyone needs to buy a horse. It's slower, but it doesn't break down as much, you don't need to change the oil every 3000 (or however many) miles, it can go over almost any terrain, it's less likely to get stuck in the winter, it pollutes less, and it's a good companion. And with today's gas prices, it's probably about the same cost-wise.
then we'll have grass and hay shortages and greenies are going to go off on animal abuse, poop causing harm the environment and grass being eaten by the horses.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsavo303
All right comrade, go home to mother russia with your propaganda.
Ignorant people who embrace the communist hype that is in vougue are going to help kill this country. Buy a Che shirt & quit typing. I have tried to explain a few concepts, yes I am an econ major, but you keep on with this emotional crap. guess what, your business would be MUCH worse off under socialism.
Odawgp said :
"GUESS WHAT it hurts me finatialy when CAPITALIST PIGS (dont get me wrong making money is everyone's dream but got damm we are talking billions of dollars here, thus the PIGS) "
You have misunder stood me as i feared that you would.
Capitalism is the very thing this country was founded on i think we both agree with that.
I dont have a problem with it until there is no limit, as to what a particular comodity is worth. Emotional yes damm right it is when it is your livily hood, we will see who is emotional. Comrade!!! I never once said i would trade the freedoms of this country for "mother Russia" I dont see that i have to much freedom in choosing who's gas i buy. there is no "free" market look at ever gas station in the country and ya there are differnet logo's on the pump. the price of the product is the same, where is the freedom in that. Granted i am just as biga part of the problem as you are for i bye gas too.
now too the pigs part. 30 billion in 4 month 225k a minute i cant even remeber how much that was for every man woman and child. point being these corporantions thrive on making more and more moeny. at what point is enough. 100 billion 10 trillion. as much as
i HATE to say it i may not have to have a buisness under socilism, my 9-5 job at the office would enough to provide for my family, maybe even support my hobbies.
I have throughly enjoyed these last two days with you and drljj, besides the name calling and political finger pointing, aside. I have said all that i can say that supports my perspective on the situation. I respect you and your "perspective" it just goes to show that when people have similar interests they may also have some difference's Politics are ugly and everyone thinks that their way is the only way. I have taken it on the chin more than once being called a commie, i'm just as red blooded american as your are my friend,
i would like to think that i am an optomist and would like to see everyone succeed at what they do and for life to be FAIR. and a little more balanced. And it may never be. As you would say TUFF. I will live with what ever happens[:)]0 -
its ccol man! I just get worked up when people buy in this micheal moore crap!
I know we would agree more in person
No hard feelings, just having fun0 -
The thing is, you have to wonder how much profit is there realistically, per gallon of gas? All things considered... drilling for it, containing it, shipping it, refining it, shipping it again, the station makes something off it. Then you have the governments taxing it.
After all that, the oil companies still have to make a profit somewhere along the line. Do we know what the average profit is per gallon?
I'm going to go out on a limb and venture to say it isn't that much. I think they could cut their profits out completely and it's likely people would still blame them.
"According to Michael Burdette, Senior Analyst at Energy Information Administration (EIA), the United States uses 378 million gallons of gas per day...."
That's mind boggling to me. When we HAVE TO consume 378 million gallons of gas per day (for what ever reasons) it doesn't take much profit tacked on to make big money! Plain and simple.
If they tacked 0.10 cents a gallon onto that for profit (just a guess), that'd be $37,800,000 dollars PER DAY PROFIT. If a quarter is 91 days, that amounts to $3,439,800,000, as in 3.4 trillion a quarter. Well, we know they aren't making that much so their profit margin must be less than 0.10 cents a gallon.
So what is it exactly? I don't know. If it's 0.06 cents on the gallon, would we be happier if it was 0.04?
If everybody slowed down by 10 mph, we could probably save millions of gallons of gas every day and move prices downward.
Aint gonna happen!!
People are concerned with THEMSELVES and THEIR status and they'll drive an SUV if they want. I'm not criticizing them for it, I'm just saying it's more likely that we're to blame for this mess.
The American people demand gas guzzlers. They're going to buy full size trucks whether they need to use them or not, which it never used to be that way. And we're all going to drive fast. We made our bed. Now it's time to sleep in it.
Big oil is going to make record profits, BY DEFAULT, simply based on all the gas we HAVE TO consume. I hate to say it but I don't think it's their fault. Not that they need to be defended, but they are normally the only ones singled out as the problem. It doesn't make sense when you're dealing with these kinds of staggering numbers.0 -
good points vess, helps people understand the scale 0 -
With all the screaming and yelling about how high is the cost of gas and we need alternative fuels, why the heck would anyone want to invest millions into a oil refinery? It may take 10 years of regulations/studies and a few years to build but they are not even guaranteed that oil will be the fuel of the future. Their window of profitability would appear to be closing fast. 0
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