The Future of General Motors
Micro-cars? Vote with the link in the middle of the website.
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=3004942&page=1
Would you buy a Mini-SUV such as General Motors' 'Triplets'?
Yes. I think a more compact SUV is a great idea.
6
Maybe. It would depend on what the car actually looks like and how much it costs.5
No. An SUV is supposed to be big!0
Total Vote: 11
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=3004942&page=1
Would you buy a Mini-SUV such as General Motors' 'Triplets'?
Yes. I think a more compact SUV is a great idea.
6
Maybe. It would depend on what the car actually looks like and how much it costs.5
No. An SUV is supposed to be big!0
Total Vote: 11
0
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Immaterial to me as I will never buy a General Motors product again. There are too many really good and affordable cars and trucks out there to spend money on and IMHO, a GM-made vehicle isn't one of them. And, I believe that they have no one to blame but themsleves. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Slow_Hand
Immaterial to me as I will never buy a General Motors product again. There are too many really good and affordable cars and trucks out there to spend money on and IMHO, a GM-made vehicle isn't one of them. And, I believe that they have no one to blame but themsleves.
pretty much sums up the whole American Auto makers. [B)]0 -
Toilet! Like Ford and Chrysler. America is on it's way out as a manufacter of anything we simply can't do it here for what it can be done for elsewhere. We may have to simply sell technology 0 -
The little or mini autos can never work in rural America. How would a farmer or rancher haul a big bale of hay out to his livestock? Or how would they pull their trailers? Just not fesible here. 0 -
I like it.. many advantages.. Do they make an optional blade for it so the yard can be mowed? Do they make a convertible so it can be used while golfing? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
Toilet! Like Ford and Chrysler. America is on it's way out as a manufacter of anything we simply can't do it here for what it can be done for elsewhere. We may have to simply sell technology
The day we don't have manufacturing will be a sad day for the US and the problems that will follow. We can stop the decline with the stoppage of FREE trade, but that probably won't happen. [V]0 -
The Europeans and the Japanese have been building these types of cars for many years so why even consider something like that from GM, who is new to the game with no experience? Someone posted an interesting chart several weeks ago which showed US wages from the turn of the last century. One of the more interesting comparisons was between a mechanical engineer (earning $5000 per year) and a factory worker (who earned $500 per year), or about one-tenth of the engineers wage. Today the pay difference is much smaller, lets say $40K for the worker and $80K for the engineer. The simple fact is that when the assembly line guys producing the widgets are earning very close to the money that the guys designing the widgets are earning, you cannot producing widgets competitively and the consumer, who is the ultimate judge, will buy a less expensive product...Doubless produced in a country where the old 10 to 1 wage ratio (or close to it) remains. 0 -
WOW - GM is NEW to the small car market? Since when? Anybody remember the Chevette, GM's first "ALL Metric" automobile?
The Industrial Revolution in the US created the Middle-class. What do you propose to do when the US middle-class is gone?0 -
quote:Originally posted by shoff14
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
Toilet! Like Ford and Chrysler. America is on it's way out as a manufacter of anything we simply can't do it here for what it can be done for elsewhere. We may have to simply sell technology
The day we don't have manufacturing will be a sad day for the US and the problems that will follow. We can stop the decline with the stoppage of FREE trade, but that probably won't happen. [V]
Good post.0 -
if I wanted a mico-mini POS I'd buy Jap, that being said I don't buy Jap [:D]
I have decided that my next car once I have a real job will be:
new Camaro if I am still single
new G8 if I do something stupid like get married in grad school0 -
quote:Originally posted by shoff14
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
Toilet! Like Ford and Chrysler. America is on it's way out as a manufacter of anything we simply can't do it here for what it can be done for elsewhere. We may have to simply sell technology
The day we don't have manufacturing will be a sad day for the US and the problems that will follow. We can stop the decline with the stoppage of FREE trade, but that probably won't happen. [V]
This country has fallen victim to ultra-top-heavy management, i.e. outrageous salaries, performance bonuses, perks, severance packages, contract buyouts, etc. for executives, CEO's, COO's, CFO's, Chairmen and B-of-D's. It's become a brass ring free-for-all, draining companies of monies vital to remaining healthy, financially sound and truly competitive. I believe that virtually any country out there can eat our manufacturing lunch nowadays simply because they are not as greedy as we are as a nation.
Just my 2 cents.0 -
in addition I have a funny observation about the small car market:
The Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix (both are underpowered POS in my opinion, so I am not biased towards either [:D]) are basically the same exact car.
Yet on carpoint.com the Pontiac has a better user review and is generaly more popular than its Toyota cousin, wierd huh?0 -
Can you say Vega, Metro & Prisim.
Really hot sellers.0 -
Here is what I think!!! Buy a real stinking car... and not enough said... when I got my first job gas was 30 cents a gal. Today I am making twelve times what I was then Using a simple Cost of Living ratio 30 x 12 gas Should be $3.60 a gal and since it is $2.70 it is still a freaking bargain. And it cost you less today to drive that Big ole SUV than it did 35 yrs ago to drive that big ole gas guzzling Suburan that got 8.5 MPG.....
Micro cars Phooey............................
Want to complain bout something... Look right at the government....Taxes using the same ratio won't be less, They wont be even. They will be more than Double......These bozos are the ones taking the food off your plate.....
Oh yea!!!
TV was FREE And had better Shows....
Ball Players signed autographs for free!!! And you didn't have 8 players from one team in jail in one season.. "Go Bengals"
I could go on for freaking ever but for now it is a Nuff Said!!!0 -
quote:Originally posted by Slow_Hand
quote:Originally posted by shoff14
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
Toilet! Like Ford and Chrysler. America is on it's way out as a manufacter of anything we simply can't do it here for what it can be done for elsewhere. We may have to simply sell technology
The day we don't have manufacturing will be a sad day for the US and the problems that will follow. We can stop the decline with the stoppage of FREE trade, but that probably won't happen. [V]
This country has fallen victim to ultra-top-heavy management, i.e. outrageous salaries, performance bonuses, perks, severance packages, contract buyouts, etc. for executives, CEO's, COO's, CFO's, Chairmen and B-of-D's. It's become a brass ring free-for-all, draining companies of monies vital to remaining healthy, financially sound and truly competitive. I believe that virtually any country out there can eat our manufacturing lunch nowadays simply because they are not as greedy as we are as a nation.
Just my 2 cents.
The truth is exactly the opposite! The union wages of the rank and file have bloated the payrolls of the larger mfg companies in America to the point where management has no way to control costs to compete with the foreign market.
The wages of CEOs, COOs, CFOs are still the same % of the gross sales they always were but line payrolls which run from 25% to 35% of the cost of sales are now almost a fixed cost. Union contracts prevent management from reducing that cost much to offset foreign market advantages. Pension and Medical Costs per employee are off the charts and guess what, foreign mfg don't have to pay that expense.
America cannot compete with countries like China that pay their employees 60 cents per hour or Mexico that pays 2-3 per hour if that and no benefit costs. Factor in India, Viet Nam and South America and all manufacturing in this country is at risk.
Its always easy to point the finger at management but that is not the source of the bigger problem.
America can make a great automobile or truck but it will have to be priced at a 5-8K premium over the imports. Just like Harley!
If you want to sell stuff at a premium price you have to find a way to convince people it is worth the premium over the foreign products.
But Americans are not stupid, except the liberals, and they have discovered that the foreign products actually offer better economy and reliability. Sooooooooo............our auto industry will go the way of UKs auto and motorcycle industry.0 -
quote:when I got my first job gas was 30 cents a gal. Today I am making twelve times what I was then Using a simple Cost of Living ratio 30 x 12 gas Should be $3.60 a gal and since it is $2.70 it is still a freaking bargain.
I agree that gas is still a bargain, and I drive 75,000 miles a year, but there are other things that have changed that hurt the avarage joe and drive the cost of living way up. 30 Years ago my Dad was in the same profession I am today and he made $40,000 a year. He was able to buy a very nice house in a very nice area for $95,000. Last year I brought in $80,000, but for me to buy that same house it would cost me $1,200,000. Somewhere things just don't add up.0 -
Corvair.
Doug0 -
You uckers forgot that communism is our en enemy and not something we can compete with in the job market/ global trade.
What are you? Morons?0 -
quote:Originally posted by ObiWan
What are you? Morons?
Well I'm I'm still supporting Bush's decision to hang tough in Iraq!!!
So draw you own conclusions!!!!0 -
quote:Originally posted by sig232
quote:Originally posted by Slow_Hand
quote:Originally posted by shoff14
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
Toilet! Like Ford and Chrysler. America is on it's way out as a manufacter of anything we simply can't do it here for what it can be done for elsewhere. We may have to simply sell technology
The day we don't have manufacturing will be a sad day for the US and the problems that will follow. We can stop the decline with the stoppage of FREE trade, but that probably won't happen. [V]
This country has fallen victim to ultra-top-heavy management, i.e. outrageous salaries, performance bonuses, perks, severance packages, contract buyouts, etc. for executives, CEO's, COO's, CFO's, Chairmen and B-of-D's. It's become a brass ring free-for-all, draining companies of monies vital to remaining healthy, financially sound and truly competitive. I believe that virtually any country out there can eat our manufacturing lunch nowadays simply because they are not as greedy as we are as a nation.
Just my 2 cents.
The truth is exactly the opposite! The union wages of the rank and file have bloated the payrolls of the larger mfg companies in America to the point where management has no way to control costs to compete with the foreign market.
The wages of CEOs, COOs, CFOs are still the same % of the gross sales they always were but line payrolls which run from 25% to 35% of the cost of sales are now almost a fixed cost. Union contracts prevent management from reducing that cost much to offset foreign market advantages. Pension and Medical Costs per employee are off the charts and guess what, foreign mfg don't have to pay that expense.
America cannot compete with countries like China that pay their employees 60 cents per hour or Mexico that pays 2-3 per hour if that and no benefit costs. Factor in India, Viet Nam and South America and all manufacturing in this country is at risk.
Its always easy to point the finger at management but that is not the source of the bigger problem.
America can make a great automobile or truck but it will have to be priced at a 5-8K premium over the imports. Just like Harley!
If you want to sell stuff at a premium price you have to find a way to convince people it is worth the premium over the foreign products.
But Americans are not stupid, except the liberals, and they have discovered that the foreign products actually offer better economy and reliability. Sooooooooo............our auto industry will go the way of UKs auto and motorcycle industry.
A general reply here, sig232, definitely NOT aimed at you.
Yes, union wages are a problem, especially in manufacturing, but the onus for much of that 800 lb. gorilla rests upon arrogant and incompetent management throughout the years.
Home Depot, as just one pitiful example in more recent history, saw fit to reward the 6-year-long lackluster performance and poor business direction of it's CEO with a $210 Million buyout/severance package.
How many 2x4's, boxes of 10-penny nails, ceiling fans, and screwdrivers does Big Orange have to sell - and for how long - just to break even on that imbecilic decision? I live in HD - there every day - and the rise in prices is astounding. Since that debacle hit the news, they're pricing much of what is nationally branded in direct line with their competitors - OR - 5% to 10% HIGHER.
General question to all who are rank 'n' file employees: If your boss thought you were a stiff, i.e. a sub-par performer, what do you think your severance package might be if you were let go?
Answer: If he or she can document your alleged incompetence on the job - NADA! ZIP! BUPKIS! past the customary 2 weeks pay.
GM has been raped, pilfered, and fully set upon by incompetent management in the last decade. All the while fiddling as Rome burned. And frankly, the stockholders are to blame IMO for enabling this collective incompetence and ambivalence throughout the company's steady decline.
Consider that Oldsmobile is no more. Buick is on and off of life support. Cadillac is no longer a real luxury status car for Americans.
Saturn was a great concept and a refreshing change of pace. Great promise. A very good car at a very good, non-negotiable price. Great service. I know. I owned one. So what did the muckity-mucks do with that success story? Tamper and fool with it, of course, until it became just as lackluster and poor-performing as all rest.
America's problems can often be viewed this way: We have met the enemy and it is us.
Just my 2 cents.0 -
quote: "America's problems can often be viewed this way: We have met the enemy and it is us."
I agree with that statement 100%[:0]0 -
Desinged in South Korea and built in India. [:(!]
So much for buy American, GM itself wont even buy American!
Crap like this I don't see much of a future for General Motors. [xx(]0 -
I couldn't get in one of those with a barrel of vasaline and two pry bars.[}:)] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mk 19
quote:when I got my first job gas was 30 cents a gal. Today I am making twelve times what I was then Using a simple Cost of Living ratio 30 x 12 gas Should be $3.60 a gal and since it is $2.70 it is still a freaking bargain.
I agree that gas is still a bargain, and I drive 75,000 miles a year, but there are other things that have changed that hurt the avarage joe and drive the cost of living way up. 30 Years ago my Dad was in the same profession I am today and he made $40,000 a year. He was able to buy a very nice house in a very nice area for $95,000. Last year I brought in $80,000, but for me to buy that same house it would cost me $1,200,000. Somewhere things just don't add up.
Your Dad made 40K a year 30 years ago? What did he do?0 -
I think GM is doing OK. They have done allright by me.
In 1988, I bought a new Dodge Ramcharger for about $15K. I also bought every extended warranty they offered. In 1992, with about 40,000 miles, I broke a leaf spring and they told me to get screwed. I sold the truck within 2 weeks.
In 2002, I bought my 2nd brand new vehicle- a 2002 Chevy Avalanche-out the door for around $32K. No extended warranty. My air conditioning compressor went out about a year and 3000 miles out of warranty but the service rep remembered me commenting that something was making noise on startup. GM replaced a very expensive AC compressor and belt and only charged me a $100 co-pay.
I can tell you who I will do more business with and it won't be Chrysler corp.
It seems funny that the japanese based companies are copying vehicles like big pickups and avalanches while we try to copy their small cars.0 -
quote:quote:
Originally posted by Mk 19
quote:
when I got my first job gas was 30 cents a gal. Today I am making twelve times what I was then Using a simple Cost of Living ratio 30 x 12 gas Should be $3.60 a gal and since it is $2.70 it is still a freaking bargain.
I agree that gas is still a bargain, and I drive 75,000 miles a year, but there are other things that have changed that hurt the avarage joe and drive the cost of living way up. 30 Years ago my Dad was in the same profession I am today and he made $40,000 a year. He was able to buy a very nice house in a very nice area for $95,000. Last year I brought in $80,000, but for me to buy that same house it would cost me $1,200,000. Somewhere things just don't add up.
Your Dad made 40K a year 30 years ago? What did he do?
Sales, it runs in the family0 -
I have had several Gm products and have never had any major problems with any of them. I have a 2001 Surburban now, with 106K on it. Only problems have been the dash 4wd switch and one window motor, both fixed under warranty. Before that I had a Silverado, sold it with over 150K on it, not one thing ever wrong with it. And it is still going strong as a local work truck, see it all the time. Before that I had a 1996 Impala SS. Great car and never a thing wrong with it. Before that a 1991 Camaro RS, also not one thing wrong with it in over 125K miles. But my wife just had to have a Honda Odyssey minivan so we bought her a new one in 2003. Tranny recall within the first year, the trannies were failing. We have had problems with both automatic side sliding doors refusing to close, dealer can't find the problem, so sometimes we have to push them shut. The metal on the rear pull down door is so thin it is all dimpled in from pushing it closed, dealer won't fix it as they say all the Odysseys do that. The paint is peeling off the rear bumper, dealer won't fix it. I'll stick with GM products. 0
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