SKS in CA questions
I have a buyer from CA that wants to purchase a Yugo SKS I have listed. He asked if I could pull off the grenade launcher to "make it legal" in CA. I am not from CA and I did some searching but couldn't quite find what I was looking for.
If I remove the GL isn't the BBL threaded? If so isn't that also illegal in CA? What is the word on the bayonet, legal or not? Person is an 03 FFL if that makes any difference. Any help would be great.
If I remove the GL isn't the BBL threaded? If so isn't that also illegal in CA? What is the word on the bayonet, legal or not? Person is an 03 FFL if that makes any difference. Any help would be great.
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I wouldn't sell any gun to anyone in California. Period. 0 -
Let's see the listing.. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Zebra
Let's see the listing..
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/SellerAuctions.asp?User=366779
There will be a Colt Sporter relisted soon. Had to file a non paying bidder.......0 -
The SKS is legal in Calif with the bayonet, but the GL on the gun would not be.
The buyer is correct. If he has an 03 C&R lic it can go directly to him, but the Gl will need to go.
Iam not sure how the GL's are attached. Possibly pressed and pinned in position.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Laredo Lefty
The SKS is legal in Calif with the bayonet, but the GL on the gun would not be.
The buyer is correct. If he has an 03 C&R lic it can go directly to him, but the Gl will need to go.
Iam not sure how the GL's are attached. Possibly pressed and pinned in position.
That is very helpful. From what I understand the GL is threaded on and then pinned. If it is threaded is it still legal there?0 -
You're correct, it's both pinned and threaded, here's the procedure for removal:
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/grlaunchremove/index.asp
And according to CA AG: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.php
there's no limitation on threaded barrel for a semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that is not listed in section 12276. and does not have characteristics listed in section 12276.1. (a) paragraphs (1) through (3).
I've seen someone advertise that they remove the GL and install some sort of compensator (flash hiders are also not allowed in CA under current legislature).
You might also want to check with calguns.net people.
Add: bayonet is fine.0 -
There are compensators for the Yugos that are styled like the grenade launcher but are Cali compliant. I don't remember exactly where I say them, but if I can find a link I'll post it. 0 -
Nwcid...... Threaded barrels are prohibited on handguns in Calif, but not the SKS.
The SKS is not considered an Assault Weapon since it does not accept a detachable magazine.
Cal Penal code Sec 12276 defines Assault Weapons. The SKS does not meet the definition, therefore a threaded barrel is not prohibited.0 -
My SkS has a detach mag.. 0 -
Awsome guys, I knew you would know. That is kinda what I was thinking but had never checked. 0 -
http://www.tapco.com/proddesc.aspx?id=b6878a0a-6fc2-457c-9d54-24e0fe9a6591
Here is a "compensator" for the Yugo, should you, or he, need one.
Rockatansky beat me to the tutorial, although they can be a PIA, depending on the individual rifle!
Good Luck.[;)]0 -
On the C&R issue,.........some are missing a very important point.
The Yugo 59/66 SKS was only put on the C&R list as a military collectible, in its totally "ORIGINAL" form.
You are removing the grenade launcher, to make it ok for CA,.........IMHO, you have just removed it from the C&R list, and therefore cannot ship to a C&R holder legally.
I also believe that after doing this, you have now put yourself into the position of complying with 922R, which is the 10 or less imported parts requirement.
Better read this!
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=132&t=49
Also this,....click on Yugo 59/66 modifications.
http://www.victorinc.com/SKS-FAQ.html#_Toc167103933
I agree with Hobbyguy,......wouldn't sell it to anyone where it could not be shipped in fully original condition.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
Person is an 03 FFL if that makes any difference. Any help would be great.
A California 03 FFL holder can only receive C&R rifles or shotguns that are over 50 years old. I don't believe your SKS was manufactured more than 50 years ago.
Any C&R handguns or any other C&R firearms less than 50 years old must be transferred through a California dealer.0 -
quote:Originally posted by EOD Guy
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
Person is an 03 FFL if that makes any difference. Any help would be great.
A California 03 FFL holder can only receive C&R rifles or shotguns that are over 50 years old. I don't believe your SKS was manufactured more than 50 years ago.
Any C&R handguns or any other C&R firearms less than 50 years old must be transferred through a California dealer.
Very good catch.
(C&R handguns don't qualify as C&R in CA, they all must go through a 01 FFL.)0 -
The 50 years does not apply to the Yugo SKS,......it was added to the list as a military collectable, but must be in its original form.
Edit: unless a C&R license is different in good old CA!
Another reason to not sell a gun to anyone in CA,.....too many different regulations are possible.
Edit again: He is correct,......must be 50 years old or more in CA!!!
Most Yugos are 70's.
You can tell by the letter on the butt side of the stock.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
The 50 years does not apply to the Yugo SKS,......it was added to the list as a military collectable, but must be in its original form.
Edit: unless a C&R license is different in good old CA!
Another reason to not sell a gun to anyone in CA,.....too many different regulations are possible.
Exactly, Marc. ANY rifle less than 50 years old isn't C&R eligible in CA, even if it's on the ATF C&R list.
Read through that "Dangerous Weapons Act" I posted. It's the future, might as well familiarize yourself with it. [}:)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Rockatansky
quote:Originally posted by EOD Guy
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
Person is an 03 FFL if that makes any difference. Any help would be great.
A California 03 FFL holder can only receive C&R rifles or shotguns that are over 50 years old. I don't believe your SKS was manufactured more than 50 years ago.
Any C&R handguns or any other C&R firearms less than 50 years old must be transferred through a California dealer.
Very good catch.
C&R handguns don't qualify as C&R in CA, they all must go through a 01 FFL.
Yes, they do. California uses the Federal definition for C&R firearms. It's just that California law requires that all firearms, with a few exceptions, must be transferred through a dealer. Type 03 FFL holders are not exempt from that requirement.
The 50 year old C&R long arm transfer is one of the exceptions to the dealer transfer requirement.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Rockatansky
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
The 50 years does not apply to the Yugo SKS,......it was added to the list as a military collectable, but must be in its original form.
Edit: unless a C&R license is different in good old CA!
Another reason to not sell a gun to anyone in CA,.....too many different regulations are possible.
Exactly, Marc. ANY rifle less than 50 years old isn't C&R eligible in CA, even if it's on the ATF C&R list.
Read through that "Dangerous Weapons Act" I posted. It's the future, might as well familiarize yourself with it. [}:)]
Not true. California uses the Federal definition for C&R firearms. It's just the method of transfer that is different in California.
The distinction is important because California C&R FFL holders can purchase C&R firearms (including handguns) while out of state and legally bring them back to California0 -
Eodguy,.......here is the kicker as I see it!
He can ship a C&R Yugo to a class 1 FFL legally, that is UNDER 50 years old.
BUT,.......on the Yugo SKS, the grenade launcher is illegal in CA.
He removes that, it is no longer C&R, and that being the case, must comply with the 10 or less imported parts per 922r.
Am I looking at this right?
"California law prohibits the grenade launcher on Yugoslavian Type 59/66 Rifles. Various companies sell so-called "California legal Yugos", where the grenade launcher is removed and replaced with a muzzle break. These rifles are definitely no longer C&R, and ATF has said so in writing numerous times.
However, when you modify a rifle and "void the C&R status", you need to conform to the current requirements of Title 18 USC ? 925(d)(3) and ? 922(r). In the case of non-C&R SKS, the ATF has clearly said that a "folding bayonet" is one of the items that are prohibited. Which means that these companies should have removed the bayonet along with the grenade launcher.
Yet, it's hard to believe that so many companies could all be violating the law by making the GL mod. ATF hasn't been able to articulate a clear answer despite receiving more than a few letters on the subject. So it seems that "California legal Yugos" exist in something of a legal grey area.
For more information, check out the section on Modifications to C&R Rifles in this FAQ.
While at least one company claims to have a letter from ATF approving this modification, it is not clear that this modification was truly legal."0 -
quote:Originally posted by EOD Guy
Not true. California uses the Federal definition for C&R firearms. It's just the method of transfer that is different in California.
The distinction is important because California C&R FFL holders can purchase C&R firearms (including handguns) while out of state and legally bring them back to California
Well, then, how many people do you know go out of state to purchase a $200 rifle or a pistol?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Rockatansky
quote:Originally posted by EOD Guy
Not true. California uses the Federal definition for C&R firearms. It's just the method of transfer that is different in California.
The distinction is important because California C&R FFL holders can purchase C&R firearms (including handguns) while out of state and legally bring them back to California
Well, then, how many people do you know go out of state to purchase a $200 rifle or a pistol?
I have done it several times both in Arizona and in Nevada. As a matter of fact, I will be in Arizona for Thanksgiving and plan to stop at J&G in Prescott and purchase 3 handguns, if they are available then. I also go to Arizona for spring training baseball every year and schedule my visit in conjunction with at least one gun show there.
There is also the Big Reno Show that is held three times a year. I have purchased at least three handguns there. A lot of C&R FFL holders from Northern California also go to the show.
I may be the exception, but it's not that unusual, especially for people that travel because of business.0 -
EOD Guy, I stand corrected then. 0
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