Would England be better off under Islamic rule?
timeout.com
* Islamic London
Is London's future Islamic?
It's the capital's fastest growing religion, based on noble traditions and compassionate principles, yet Islam can still be tainted by mistrust and misunderstanding. Here Time Out argues that an Islamic London would be a better place
The noise from the expectant crowd hushed to a murmur as an open-backed lorry that had driven slowly up the Mall - known since the Islamic revolution of 2021 as The Way of the Martyrs - nudged its way through the thousands gathered in Mohammad Sidique Khan Square. On the lorry, two masked guards held a young man, black hood over his head; a quiver running through the material suggested he knew what was coming.
The lorry halted by the plinth that had once held Marc Quinn's sculpture `Alison Lapper Pregnant' - long since removed as an insult to decency - and was now the place of public execution. A rope noose attached to a wire cable hung from a mechanised hoist. The main doors of what had been the National Gallery flung open and an Imam walked down the steps of the new Institute of Islamic Jurisprudence, opened only a week before by Sultan Charles, Prince of Islam and protector of the faithful in England.
The official executioner placed a stepladder against the plinth. The lorry pulled up and the young man was pushed out, then forced up the ladder. The noose was forced over the condemned man's head. The crowd chanted `Allahu akbar' (God is greater than everything).The hoist driver put his finger on a green button . Okay, not really - that's a hysterical, right-wing nightmare of a future Muslim London: where an cruel alien creed is forced on a liberal city. A society where women are second-class citizens, same sex relationships a crime and Sharia law enforces terrible public disfigurement and death. But the reality is a long, long way from this dark vision.
For a start, Islam is not an alien religion to London. At the end of World War I the city sat at the heart of an Empire that had 160 million Muslim subjects, 80 million in India alone. London was the largest Islamic capital in the world. Forty years later and the end of the Empire, unrest and war and poverty in south Asia had lead to mass immigration to the mother country and London became a Muslim capital in another sense.
20 Skyline 3.jpgAccording to the 2001 census there are 607,083 Muslims living in London (310,477 men and 296,606 women). The majority of Muslims live in the east of the city and, by 2012, the Muslim Council of Britain estimates that the Muslim population of Tower Hamlets, Newham, Waltham Forest and Hackney will be 250,000. There are plans afoot (though no formal application has yet been submitted) to build the UKs biggest mosque - capable of welcoming 40,000 worshippers - near the 2012 Olympic site, a move which has prompted predictable outrage from some quarters. Consequently, Muslim disillionment with a reactionary and often ill-informed press is at an all time high.
But rather than fear the inevitable changes this will bring to London, or buy in to a racist representation of all Muslims as terrorists, we should recognise both what Islam has given this city already, and the advantages it would bring across a wide range of areas in the future.
Public health
On the surface, Islamic health doesn't look good: the 2001 census showed that 24 per cent of Muslim women and 21 per cent of Muslim men suffered long-term illness and disability. But these are factors of social conditions rather than religion. In fact, Islam offers Londoners potential health benefits: the Muslim act of prayer is designed to keep worshippers fit, their joints supple and, at five times a day, their stomachs trim. The regular washing of the feet and hands required before prayers promotes public hygiene and would reduce the transmission of superbugs in London's hospitals.
Alcohol is haram, or forbidden, to Muslims. As London is above the national average for alcohol-related deaths in males, with 17.6 per 100,000 people (Camden has 31.6 per 100,000 males), turning all the city's pubs into juice bars would have a massive positive effect on public health. Forbid alcohol throughout the country, and you'd avoid many of the 22,000 alcohol-related deaths and the ?7.3 billion national bill for alcohol-related crime and disorder each year.
Ecology
`The world is green and beautiful,' said the prophet Muhammad, `and Allah has appointed you his guardian over it.' The Islamic concept of halifa or trusteeship obliges Muslims to look after the natural world and Muhammad was one of the first ever environmentalists, advocating hima - areas where wildlife and forestry are protected. So we could expect more public parks under Islam, but halifa also applies to recycling: in 2006, 12,000 Muslims attended a series of sermons at the East London Mosque explaining the theological evidence for a link between behaving in an environmentally sustainable way and the Islamic faith.
Education
Presently, Muslim students perform less well than non-Muslim students. In inner London, 37 per cent of 16 to 24-year-old Muslims have no qualifications (the figure for the general population of the same age and location is 25 per cent). When it comes to university education the picture is equally gloomy: 16 to 24-year-old Muslims are half as likely to have degree level or above qualification than other inner London young people.
Again, social factors rather than religion have led to this state of affairs. Young Muslims in London are often of south Asian origin and therefore more likely to live in households where English is not the first language, more likely to encounter racism (both intentional and unintentional) during their education, and more likely to suffer from poverty and bad housing conditions.
But Tahir Alam, education spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain, claims Muslim children do better in their own faith schools than in the mainstream state sector: `Muslim schools have their own distinct ethos. They use the children's faith and heritage as primary motivators to provide the backdrop for their education and behaviour. This ethos is consistent with the messages that children are getting at home, so it is a very coherent operation between the home and the school.'
If Islam became the dominant religion in London the same ethos could be applied to schooling across swathes of underprivileged and deprived areas of the city. This could have a revolutionary effect on educational achievement and, perhaps just as importantly, general levels of discipline and self-respect among London's young people. While controversy rages over faith schools, there are 37 Muslim schools in London. As of 2004, only five were state schools, but there is growing pressure to bring more into the state sector which, according to Alam, will `help raise achievement for many sectors of the Muslim community. Many private Muslim schools are under-resourced and if they can be brought into the state sector this valuable experience can be extended to more children.'
Food
Application of halal (Arabic for `permissable') dietary laws across London would free us at a stroke from our addiction to junk food, and the general adoption of a south Asian diet rich in fruit juice, rice and vegetables with occasional mutton or chicken would have a drastic effect on obesity, hyperactivity, attention deficit disorders and associated public health problems. As curry is already Londoners' and the nation's favourite food (see our Brick Lane food feature), it would be a relatively easy process to encourage the adoption of such a diet. Not eating would be important as well. The annual fasting month of Ramadan instils self-discipline, courtesy and social cohesion. And Londoners would benefit philosophically and physically from even a short period when we weren't constantly ramming food into our mouths.
Inter-faith relations
In an Islamic London, Christians and Jews - with their allegiance to the Bible and the Talmud - would be protected as `peoples of the book'. Hindus and Sikhs manage to live alongside a large Muslim population in India, so why not here? Although England has a long tradition of religious bigotry against, for instance, Roman Catholics, it is reasonable to assume that under the guiding hand of Islam a civilised accommodation could be made among faith groups in London. This welcoming stance already exists in the capital in the form of the City Circle (see Yahya Birt interview), which encourages inter-faith dialogue and open discussion.
Arts
Some of the finest art in London is already Islamic. The Jameel Gallery at the V&A houses `ceramics, textiles, carpets, metalwork, glass and woodwork, which date from the great days of the Islamic caliphate of the eighth and ninth century' up until the turn of the last century. Or take a free daily tour of the Addis Gallery of Islamic art (at the British Museum). London-based Nasser David Khalili, an Iranian-born Jew, has amassed what is considered to be the world's largest private collection of Islamic art. Islamic influences have also flourished in other areas of the arts, with novelists, comedians (Birmingham-born Shazia Mirza was an instant hit on the London circuit), and music (from rappers Mecca2Medina on, to the less in-your-face Yusuf Islam).
Social justice
Each Muslim is obliged to pay zakat, a welfare tax of 2.5 per cent of annual income, that is distributed to the poor and the needy. If the working population of London, 5.2 million, was predominantly Muslim this would produce approximately ?3.2bn each year. More importantly, everyone would be obliged to consider those Londoners who haven't shared their good fortune. London would become a little less cruel.
Race relations
Under Islam all ethnicities are equal. Once you have submitted to Allah you are a Muslim - it doesn't matter what colour you are. End of story.
* Islamic London
Is London's future Islamic?
It's the capital's fastest growing religion, based on noble traditions and compassionate principles, yet Islam can still be tainted by mistrust and misunderstanding. Here Time Out argues that an Islamic London would be a better place
The noise from the expectant crowd hushed to a murmur as an open-backed lorry that had driven slowly up the Mall - known since the Islamic revolution of 2021 as The Way of the Martyrs - nudged its way through the thousands gathered in Mohammad Sidique Khan Square. On the lorry, two masked guards held a young man, black hood over his head; a quiver running through the material suggested he knew what was coming.
The lorry halted by the plinth that had once held Marc Quinn's sculpture `Alison Lapper Pregnant' - long since removed as an insult to decency - and was now the place of public execution. A rope noose attached to a wire cable hung from a mechanised hoist. The main doors of what had been the National Gallery flung open and an Imam walked down the steps of the new Institute of Islamic Jurisprudence, opened only a week before by Sultan Charles, Prince of Islam and protector of the faithful in England.
The official executioner placed a stepladder against the plinth. The lorry pulled up and the young man was pushed out, then forced up the ladder. The noose was forced over the condemned man's head. The crowd chanted `Allahu akbar' (God is greater than everything).The hoist driver put his finger on a green button . Okay, not really - that's a hysterical, right-wing nightmare of a future Muslim London: where an cruel alien creed is forced on a liberal city. A society where women are second-class citizens, same sex relationships a crime and Sharia law enforces terrible public disfigurement and death. But the reality is a long, long way from this dark vision.
For a start, Islam is not an alien religion to London. At the end of World War I the city sat at the heart of an Empire that had 160 million Muslim subjects, 80 million in India alone. London was the largest Islamic capital in the world. Forty years later and the end of the Empire, unrest and war and poverty in south Asia had lead to mass immigration to the mother country and London became a Muslim capital in another sense.
20 Skyline 3.jpgAccording to the 2001 census there are 607,083 Muslims living in London (310,477 men and 296,606 women). The majority of Muslims live in the east of the city and, by 2012, the Muslim Council of Britain estimates that the Muslim population of Tower Hamlets, Newham, Waltham Forest and Hackney will be 250,000. There are plans afoot (though no formal application has yet been submitted) to build the UKs biggest mosque - capable of welcoming 40,000 worshippers - near the 2012 Olympic site, a move which has prompted predictable outrage from some quarters. Consequently, Muslim disillionment with a reactionary and often ill-informed press is at an all time high.
But rather than fear the inevitable changes this will bring to London, or buy in to a racist representation of all Muslims as terrorists, we should recognise both what Islam has given this city already, and the advantages it would bring across a wide range of areas in the future.
Public health
On the surface, Islamic health doesn't look good: the 2001 census showed that 24 per cent of Muslim women and 21 per cent of Muslim men suffered long-term illness and disability. But these are factors of social conditions rather than religion. In fact, Islam offers Londoners potential health benefits: the Muslim act of prayer is designed to keep worshippers fit, their joints supple and, at five times a day, their stomachs trim. The regular washing of the feet and hands required before prayers promotes public hygiene and would reduce the transmission of superbugs in London's hospitals.
Alcohol is haram, or forbidden, to Muslims. As London is above the national average for alcohol-related deaths in males, with 17.6 per 100,000 people (Camden has 31.6 per 100,000 males), turning all the city's pubs into juice bars would have a massive positive effect on public health. Forbid alcohol throughout the country, and you'd avoid many of the 22,000 alcohol-related deaths and the ?7.3 billion national bill for alcohol-related crime and disorder each year.
Ecology
`The world is green and beautiful,' said the prophet Muhammad, `and Allah has appointed you his guardian over it.' The Islamic concept of halifa or trusteeship obliges Muslims to look after the natural world and Muhammad was one of the first ever environmentalists, advocating hima - areas where wildlife and forestry are protected. So we could expect more public parks under Islam, but halifa also applies to recycling: in 2006, 12,000 Muslims attended a series of sermons at the East London Mosque explaining the theological evidence for a link between behaving in an environmentally sustainable way and the Islamic faith.
Education
Presently, Muslim students perform less well than non-Muslim students. In inner London, 37 per cent of 16 to 24-year-old Muslims have no qualifications (the figure for the general population of the same age and location is 25 per cent). When it comes to university education the picture is equally gloomy: 16 to 24-year-old Muslims are half as likely to have degree level or above qualification than other inner London young people.
Again, social factors rather than religion have led to this state of affairs. Young Muslims in London are often of south Asian origin and therefore more likely to live in households where English is not the first language, more likely to encounter racism (both intentional and unintentional) during their education, and more likely to suffer from poverty and bad housing conditions.
But Tahir Alam, education spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain, claims Muslim children do better in their own faith schools than in the mainstream state sector: `Muslim schools have their own distinct ethos. They use the children's faith and heritage as primary motivators to provide the backdrop for their education and behaviour. This ethos is consistent with the messages that children are getting at home, so it is a very coherent operation between the home and the school.'
If Islam became the dominant religion in London the same ethos could be applied to schooling across swathes of underprivileged and deprived areas of the city. This could have a revolutionary effect on educational achievement and, perhaps just as importantly, general levels of discipline and self-respect among London's young people. While controversy rages over faith schools, there are 37 Muslim schools in London. As of 2004, only five were state schools, but there is growing pressure to bring more into the state sector which, according to Alam, will `help raise achievement for many sectors of the Muslim community. Many private Muslim schools are under-resourced and if they can be brought into the state sector this valuable experience can be extended to more children.'
Food
Application of halal (Arabic for `permissable') dietary laws across London would free us at a stroke from our addiction to junk food, and the general adoption of a south Asian diet rich in fruit juice, rice and vegetables with occasional mutton or chicken would have a drastic effect on obesity, hyperactivity, attention deficit disorders and associated public health problems. As curry is already Londoners' and the nation's favourite food (see our Brick Lane food feature), it would be a relatively easy process to encourage the adoption of such a diet. Not eating would be important as well. The annual fasting month of Ramadan instils self-discipline, courtesy and social cohesion. And Londoners would benefit philosophically and physically from even a short period when we weren't constantly ramming food into our mouths.
Inter-faith relations
In an Islamic London, Christians and Jews - with their allegiance to the Bible and the Talmud - would be protected as `peoples of the book'. Hindus and Sikhs manage to live alongside a large Muslim population in India, so why not here? Although England has a long tradition of religious bigotry against, for instance, Roman Catholics, it is reasonable to assume that under the guiding hand of Islam a civilised accommodation could be made among faith groups in London. This welcoming stance already exists in the capital in the form of the City Circle (see Yahya Birt interview), which encourages inter-faith dialogue and open discussion.
Arts
Some of the finest art in London is already Islamic. The Jameel Gallery at the V&A houses `ceramics, textiles, carpets, metalwork, glass and woodwork, which date from the great days of the Islamic caliphate of the eighth and ninth century' up until the turn of the last century. Or take a free daily tour of the Addis Gallery of Islamic art (at the British Museum). London-based Nasser David Khalili, an Iranian-born Jew, has amassed what is considered to be the world's largest private collection of Islamic art. Islamic influences have also flourished in other areas of the arts, with novelists, comedians (Birmingham-born Shazia Mirza was an instant hit on the London circuit), and music (from rappers Mecca2Medina on, to the less in-your-face Yusuf Islam).
Social justice
Each Muslim is obliged to pay zakat, a welfare tax of 2.5 per cent of annual income, that is distributed to the poor and the needy. If the working population of London, 5.2 million, was predominantly Muslim this would produce approximately ?3.2bn each year. More importantly, everyone would be obliged to consider those Londoners who haven't shared their good fortune. London would become a little less cruel.
Race relations
Under Islam all ethnicities are equal. Once you have submitted to Allah you are a Muslim - it doesn't matter what colour you are. End of story.
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Gasp!
God Save The Queen!
[8D]0 -
...not for Ray!(mond)...[^] 
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any country that allows islam to be the religion of choice, will fall. any country that stands up for the GOD OF ISRAEL will live.
JESUS is very clear in the bible:
"he that denies me before men, i will deny before my father."
all thru history, have you ever seen an islamic nation helping any other? ever notice that the christian nations are always the ones helping muslims?0 -
I say we REVIVE the spirit and actions of the CRUSADES! The muslims mean nothing short of WORLD domination--they won't stop with England. And the rosy picture this idiot paints with regard to the state of affairs under caliph rule is nothing more than BULLS#!+! Three choices for folks under muslim tyranny: (1) convert to islam, (2)pay an enormous "zakat" (penalty tax for not converting) AND suffer constant injustice, or (3) DIE. [V][:(!][V][:(!][V][:(!][V][:(!][V][:(!] 0 -
Islam is a gutter "religion" which needs to be eradicated from the planet. It is intolerant, despicable, and prominant only in repressive and totalitarian states.
Kill all ragheads !!!0 -
quote:Originally posted by Old Fool
Islam is a gutter "religion" which needs to be eradicated from the planet. It is intolerant, despicable, and prominant only in repressive and totalitarian states.
Kill all ragheads !!!
I am afraid you are correct! +10 -
quote:Originally posted by Ramtinxxl
I say we REVIVE the spirit and actions of the CRUSADES! The muslims mean nothing short of WORLD domination--they won't stop with England. And the rosy picture this idiot paints with regard to the state of affairs under caliph rule is nothing more than BULLS#!+! Three choices for folks under muslim tyranny: (1) convert to islam, (2)pay an enormous "zakat" (penalty tax for not converting) AND suffer constant injustice, or (3) DIE. [V][:(!][V][:(!][V][:(!][V][:(!][V][:(!]
... or play cowboys and muslims [}:)]!0 -
Just got back from London and believe me it is getting really bad over there as far as the muslim religion taking over.Wouldnt want to live back there now.I am totally with fool on this and you aint such a fool to reliaze this fool. 0 -
Allah save the queen! 0 -
If anybody wants to know what England would be like under Islamic rule and Sharia law, all they have to do is take a look at countries which are under Islamic rule and Sharia law; Iran, Syria, Somalia, Libya. Or if they want a more rosy picture, look at the more enlightened, liberal Islamic countries; Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, Morocco.
Yeah, I'd trade British citizenship for that. Yep, I would. But not as long as I'm on this side of the grass.0 -
quote:Saudi Arabia Yeah right. Under Wahabism the Saudis are funding much the Islamic terrorism we are seeing.
All of Islam is living in the middle ages, but of course, the Vatican would like to be.0 -
quote:Originally posted by He Dog
quote:Saudi Arabia Yeah right. Under Wahabism the Saudis are funding much the Islamic terrorism we are seeing.
All of Islam is living in the middle ages, but of course, the Vatican would like to be.
I would say funding most, but I'll accept funding much.
He Dog, my point was there are no enlightened, liberal Islamic countries.0 -
quote:I would say funding most, but I'll accept funding much.
He Dog, my point was there are no enlightened, liberal Islamic countries.
I would accept most, and probably believe all.
Yeah, I was just kinda trying to underscore that irony part.[^]
I have traveled some in Egypt. The scent of hashish wafting on the air harkened me back to college days, and then I remembered they have been toking up for thousands of years. Probably why all those religions came out of the desert. "Good stuff man, I was just talking with god."0 -
Savages.
That need to be eradicated from the face of the earth.
"... or play cowboys and muslims" - Feenix
Good thinking.
Doug0 -
A few years ago, I went to Pakistan on a mission for a religious organization to work for the release of Christians imprisoned by that country's "blasphemy laws." I will tell you something: Islam has two faces--one face when it's in the majority, and another face when it's in the minority.
It is a brutal religion that treats Christians and Jews like subhumans. It "tolerates" others only so long as they knuckle under to Islam.
I know. I've been there.0 -
Way to get down to the core of the problem - a spread hate about another group of people on the internet. 0 -
dont spread hate, just pass out ammo. 0 -
i just heard the name Mohamed is the second most popular name for children born in England now. 0 -
Bloody well hope not. 0 -
scuttlebutt has it that Scotland will gain independence from England soon.
Scotland would be a good jump-off point to liberate the limeys from the muslim scourge...and it would be rather nice to have a few highlanders on our side [;)]0
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