What is the bottom line??
I've been messing around with firearms for 50+ years, and this thought just occurred to me:
How often do CCW permit holders (not off-duty policemen or on/off duty security guards) confront multiple assailants where gunfire is exchanged??
I don't believe I can recall this happening in my memory.
Anyone??
Doug
How often do CCW permit holders (not off-duty policemen or on/off duty security guards) confront multiple assailants where gunfire is exchanged??
I don't believe I can recall this happening in my memory.
Anyone??
Doug
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I take it this speaks to the revolver vs auto question.
You make a good point, the average citizen can probably get by with 5 or 6 shots 99.9% of the time.0 -
No CCW, but do carry, A P3AT with extra mag in holster. Never had to use, but would if need be. 0 -
There was that ultra-high-profile case in NYC in the late 1980's (?), in which a guy (carrying illegally) shot three or four teens who asked him for money on the subway. The national outrage was that he used excessive force, given that they had only asked him for money. But when interviewed later on, one of the kids said they'd been planning to mug the shooter. And then there was the account that the man shot them all, surveyed the injured group, said: "you don't seem to be so badly off" to one of the teens and then shot him again.
I think the end result was a weapons charge and conviction for the shooter. Shooter had been mugged before, which is probably why he started carrying a gun.
Somebody else on this board must remember the incident; it was national news. If so, flesh out the details I've missed, and correct any I've screwed up.0 -
This doesn't apply to the CCW specifically,......but when I lived in W. Palm Beach, a friend of mine that DID have a CCW when it was far more difficult to get here, had a "home invasion" take place.
The worst thing to fear, as they are on crack or meth,........it's bad.
There were 3 of them,.......they just broke the back pool door in, and were on he, and his wife in about 60 seconds.
I still believe the only thing that saved him, was his alarm system, as they were already in bed, on the other side of the house, and got the 30 second beep warning, before the horn even sounded.
He was waiting ducked behind the bed, when they entered the bedroom, and made 2 hits right off the bat. The wife was in the closet BTW.
The first guy died in place,........the second one made it to the yard before he gave up the ghost. The third ran, and was caught several hours later.
My friend was hit in the shoulder by a .38 SWC,........which was fired by the second guy, after ballistics. He estimated that they fired 5 to 6 rounds, but the rest went into walls, or the ceiling. Appeared the "walking dead" guy, was the one that fired the shot into the ceiling.
I spoke to him last about 10 years ago, and they were fine, except he has arthritis in his shoulder!
He was using a .45 for the purpose of info,.......and yes he had to spend many hours at the police station, going over things, as one of the "victims" family members, attempted to sue him, in civil court, but lost.
He had to move, because of the threats from family members of the dead "men",..........and yes, I WILL say that they were black, all 3.
Hope it never happens to me, or anyone here.0 -
I remember the incident, and can nearly remember the guy's name. He was being assaulted by 3 teens with sharpened screwdrivers. I think the guy had a Model 36. Was he named "Gary" something??
My question was about GUNFIRE being exchanged between an armed civilian and multiple assailants. In the modern era - say the last 50 years.
Doug0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
I remember the incident, and can nearly remember the guy's name. He was being assaulted by 3 teens with sharpened screwdrivers. I think the guy had a Model 36. Was he named "Gary" something??
My question was about GUNFIRE being exchanged between an armed civilian and multiple assailants. In the modern era - say the last 50 years.
Doug
:Here it is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz0 -
Bernhard Goetz 0 -
The story I related was around 1988 to 89.
The only instance of anyone I have EVER known, that had this happen,.......to this day.0 -
Every gang rape you read about is a multiple assailant confrontation. If women would simply arm themselves more, they'd happen a lot less. 0 -
I don't know the stats, but I did respond to a call where two masked men tried to rob (at gunpoint) a CCW holder. The CCW holder had a coin business and worked the local swap meet on Saturdays and Sundays. Just at daylight the CCW holder was loading his coin collection into his car and the two masked men told him to "put your hands up".
Well instead he pulled out his trusty 32 cal semi pistol and put one right in the heart of robber #1 (distance about five feet). He went down like a sack of rocks.
CCW holder turns to robber #2 and cranks off another round (distance about 10 feet). Robber #2 catches this one in the upper thigh, and has enough of this crap. So robber #2 heads for the car (this happened in a trailer park and the get away car is two trailers down and one row over).
CCW holder calls 911 and my partner and I are there in 2 minutes. CCW holder also tells dispatcher that one left in a car. Well there are only two ways into this area where the trailer park is and the Spring Valley patrol units stop the only car heading away from the trailer park. Guess what? Low and behold this guy is bleeding, has a ski mask, and a pistol under the seat. Imagine that!
Well we check out the dead guy. Bullet hole 1" under his left nipple, no exit wound. We quietly congratulate the CCW holder and tell him "Good Job". Take the CCW holder weapon for forensics (it was later returned to him), ask him if he has another to use while we test his (yes he has another).
Take the report wait for the corner, oh and by the way, ask robber #2 if he would like to go to the hospital if he had a bullet wound. He said he wasn't feeling so good and would like to go to the hospital. Bullet removed from robber #2 and matched the CCW holders gun. Blood on the ground leading away from crime scene matched robber #2 (this was long before DNA).
Slam dunk conviction. That was my only personal handling of a CCW holders shooting incident.0 -
Never in this country and hope will never have to. A few of my friends however including my pseudo girlfriend have been assaulted in San Francisco (surprise surprise). 0 -
When I was in my early 20s and working nights in a convenience store I chased a shoplifter into the parking lot one night. When I got out there, I found that he had 4 friends with him who had waited outside. No weapons in sight, but 5 to 1 are not good so I cranked off a single round from my 1911 into the air. I think nobody noticed I was holding the gun in my hand as they seemed plenty surprised at the shot. The guy dropped the 2 cases of beer he had stolen and they all took off running.
I know someone will point out that it may have been illegal or unwise to fire the warning shot but it was my understanding that state law allowed for deadly force when confronted by 3 or more assailants even if they were unarmed as this constituted a deadly threat and I believe that sometimes a warning shot gets the job done when you need to show you mean business but really don't want to shoot someone.
Also, just a few months ago here in town 3 men pulled an armed robbery on a wholesale jewelry seller carrying large amounts of diamonds. He was targeted as they knew what he had in the case. They approached him in a parking lot outside a store where was making a sales call, displaying handguns and demanding the stones. He pulled a 9mm and killed 2 and wounded the third who was later arrested.
I can recall two cases of multiple perps in home-invasions where residents killed or scattered them with a handgun. A week ago in Little Rock a homeowner shot one and ran off another as they tried to smash through the front door. About 10 years ago in Cincinnati a man used a 1911 (his first gun and amazingly he had bought it that very day) to chase off 4-5 gangsters who broke through his door. He emptied the gun in their general direction but didn't hit anyone.
Facing multiple attackers is rare but it does happen. Criminals are not soldiers, though, and most will run at the first shot. My theory is pick the leader and cap him and you probably won't have to worry about the rest. As to firepower for concealed carry I usually have a S&W 659 with 14 rounds or a J frame with 5 + 5 on a Speed Strip. I feel fairly confident with either.0 -
Not a gun story, but I recall reading a good one in "armed citizen" several years back.
It seems this guy was a knife dealer of somekind, and had trained in some knife fighting art in the orient. He'd just returned from a visit to the orient, and was coming out of a store late at night. Two assailants was going to try to rob him, and he commenced some fancy slicing on em. Forget how many moon shaped slices they said these guys had all over their arms, but it was alottttt.[:D][:D]0
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