USA selling Saudi billions in weapons..
Aside from the normal mindless drivel posted here.
Any thoughts on the listed topic ?
Good idea or not ?
What will the US do to apease the Israeli's since we are arming thier
enemy ?
Any thoughts on the listed topic ?
Good idea or not ?
What will the US do to apease the Israeli's since we are arming thier
enemy ?
0
-
I suspect that we are doing so to help them defend themselves against Iran. They do fear Iran's expanding its borders.
Its trading guns and dollars for oil and it will most likely come back to bite us in the butt at some future date. Few in the middle east like us much and they will never snuggle up and accept our religious views.0 -
I'll not pretend to be smart enough to figure out why they really do some of the things they do. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by TwoDogs
Aside from the normal mindless drivel posted here.
Any thoughts on the listed topic ?
The U.S. has only been doing this for fifteen years. And the Saudis have been flying F-16's since the mid-90's. Talk about mindless drivel.
Hey, did you hear the one about the earth not being flat?
zzz-zzz-zzz0 -
I only wonder how many of the weapons will actually stay in Saudi hands. If a guy's in control of thousands of rifles, explosives, whatever... and he has his handful of them, he doesn't need anymore. His needs are satisfied. Best case scenario: I imagine whomever offers up the most cash or nicest gifts (likely a combination from many buyers) will end up with a good portion of them.
Or, typical option two and worst case scenario: We enter into a future conflict in the middle east and Saudi Arabia decides to play both sides too, helping arm our enemy behind the scenes. Which essentially plays into the first scenario anyway.
Yes, by my calculations it's foolish giving them anything.0 -
quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
The U.S. has only been doing this for fifteen years. And the Saudis have been flying F-16's since the mid-90's. Talk about mindless drivel.
Hey, did you hear the one about the earth not being flat?
zzz-zzz-zzz
We have been supplying them with modern, new construction ships since 1976. We were supplying them decommissioned MSOs before that. I was a part of the Saudi Arabian Naval Expansion Program from 1976 -1980. The U. S. has only been doing this for at least thirty years, and I don't really know how long before that.0 -
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
We have been supplying them with modern, new construction ships since 1976. We were supplying them decommissioned MSOs before that. I was a part of the Saudi Arabian Naval Expansion Program from 1976 -1980. The U. S. has only been doing this for at least thirty years, and I don't really know how long before that.
I'm sure you are right. I can only speak for my own experience in Saudi Arabia in the early-mid 90's. I remember going to an air show in Riyadh in '94. Four Saudi pilots in bright colored flight suits let me take their picture in front of their F16's; only before taking off they were replaced by four U.S. Air Force pilots wearing the same flight suits who actually flew the show.0 -
The first MSO we turned over to them had a fire in the engine room. Instead of putting the fire out, they abandoned ship and it burned to the waterline and sank. That's when they decided to do the Saudi Arabian Naval Expansion Program to train a few sailors, and buy some Patrol Gunboats with the latest and the greatest and the most up to datest General Electric turbine engines. I haven't kept up with how that worked out. 0 -
There is NOTHING new here. We sell to Saudi, the ruskies sell to Egypt. We sell to Egypt, the ruskies sell to saudi. Everyone must understand, we must maintain a BALANCE OF POWER in the mideast. In other words, we and the ruskies will sell anything to anyone. The cold war may be over but arms export is still very big business for any country that can manufacture and export same. Say NATO countries and COMMUNIST countries. Tom 0 -
Damn,
what a thread... [:0]
It's the ol' 'double dog' baiting the sheep dancer,
and in public no less.
Where then might the 'furry' squealer from Florida be ?
Me thinks the smell will overtake us soon...no doubt
All BS aside guys,
I'd sell to them if my FFL allowed...
And I know dam well my profit seeking ex-cop beer-drinkin'
Texas buddy Mr. R would too...huh neighbor ? [;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by outdoortexas
Damn,
what a thread... [:0]
It's the ol' 'double dog' baiting the sheep dancer,
and in public no less.
Where then might the 'furry' squealer from Florida be ?
Me thinks the smell will overtake us soon...no doubt
All BS aside guys,
I'd sell to them if my FFL allowed...
And I know dam well my profit seeking ex-cop beer-drinkin'
Texas buddy Mr. R would too...huh neighbor ? [;)]
Ever here of Viktor Bout?0 -
quote:Originally posted by tccox
There is NOTHING new here. We sell to Saudi, the ruskies sell to Egypt. We sell to Egypt, the ruskies sell to saudi. Everyone must understand, we must maintain a BALANCE OF POWER in the mideast. In other words, we and the ruskies will sell anything to anyone. The cold war may be over but arms export is still very big business for any country that can manufacture and export same. Say NATO countries and COMMUNIST countries. Tom
In the 80's we were buying Chinese guns and shipping them to Afganistan because we didn't want the Russians to accuse us of suppling the rebels. Later in the 90's America was supposedly shipping Russian made Iraqi tanks to Afghanistan through Pakistan.
Personally, I find it very hypocritical for politicians like Mrs. Clinton to oppose Americans from owning firearms, but then flood the markets of Croatia and Serbia.0 -
quote:Originally posted by outdoortexas
Damn,
what a thread... [:0]
It's the ol' 'double dog' baiting the sheep dancer,
and in public no less.
Where then might the 'furry' squealer from Florida be ?
Me thinks the smell will overtake us soon...no doubt
All BS aside guys,
I'd sell to them if my FFL allowed...
And I know dam well my profit seeking ex-cop beer-drinkin'
Texas buddy Mr. R would too...huh neighbor ? [;)]
You shur are one smart feller, alright. Observin' this anna observin' that anna doin' the down home Texas commentary thang.
All BS aside ODT, stick it in your ear.0 -
Think of it this way: the US will finally have money coming in from overseas, instead of us buying stuff. 0 -
The way I see it, is when Iraq collapses into total civil war, Iran Pakistan and Syria will get into the act as will all the other Arab countries in the region.
Those secular Kingdoms friendly to the west will be threatened in a massive attempt to unify the Arab world.
Our "friends" such as Saudi Arabia need to be propped up.
The writing's on the wall so I dont see these efforts as much other than a holding action only delayed if Iran and Syria were reduced by atomic means to the stone age.
That citadel we're building to American preminence in Baghdad is one
misadvised joke.0 -
quote:Originally posted by v35
The way I see it, is when Iraq collapses into total civil war, Iran Pakistan and Syria will get into the act as will all the other Arab countries in the region.
Those secular Kingdoms friendly to the west will be threatened in a massive attempt to unify the Arab world.
Our "friends" such as Saudi Arabia need to be propped up.
The writing's on the wall so I dont see these efforts as much other than a holding action only delayed if Iran and Syria were reduced by atomic means to the stone age.
That citadel we're building to American preminence in Baghdad is one
misadvised joke.
IRAN, Pakistan, Syria....what about Saudi and Kuwait? Don' they have a vested interest as uch as anyone?0 -
Such fun we do have around here...
Been so long since I've posted, or poked fun at the 'animal lover',
I'd forgotten that adrenal rush high feelin'...
almost as good as bidding on a gun that I can't afford...
Truth is...
Nunn phoned me a couple of days back to visit ( while he was in Fort Worth on business no less... ),
and yes,
I admit to still appreciating Nunn's friendship,
although it has been a couple of years since we shared a cold drink while sitting on the side of the Brazos feeding sticks to a small fire on a summers night. Better yet, after a good day of fishin' and a decent meal, and we even had nice weather... In fact, it was back when Nunn's 'boy' was still a boy, and not the young proud warrior he has become.
And, if I remember right the youngster caught most of the fish...
Congrats again David, you were/are a much better dad than even you thought at the time.
( Private note to Heffley as well...
beer was cold, Crown Royal was warm, and Nunn WAS ENTERTAINING
that night 'way back when'.
Would seem we are "duty bound brother" to try that again, perhaps when Travis returns home...) I for one would truly enjoy it... and yes, I'll still bring the Crown...
Captplaid:
Truth is... I had to Google the name Bout, but then after doing so, do recall seeing/hearing the name sometime back, 'in the news' I would guess. But I really never studied him/his 'operation'.
I'm afraid he's way out of my league...if a single .22 buy for my collection goes over four-digits I get all sweaty palmed...[:D]
For clarification, since we don't know each other CP,
( and the sheeper is lurking ),
my FFL is for making a profit, at least an attempt at it,
and it does help buy food for my puppies...
We, the USA, do sell to about everybody, lord knows I'm not smart enough to figure out TwoDogs question or the difference between the good and the bad buyers/sellers, here at GB or on an International basis...
and as I move on into my 60's,
everyone seems to keep changing sides.
I can't keep up anymore with the different names of new autos even, how could I be expected to know anything of 'real' value ?
Hell, I wasn't then, nor even now, real sure who was right, who was wrong, or even if sometimes the same guy was on both sides when I had my face stuck way down low in that southeast Asia terra firma the time or two I heard loud noises...
although sometimes it seems
( maybe its just a flashbach DWS, remember ? ),
the consistency was that of soil and water mixed, sorta slip-slidin' downhill kinda stuff, with a slight purfume smell that might be addressed as rotting foliage...but then again,
that could have been a chemical reaction of my weakened-slash-smeller...
due to the Agent Orange 'they' were dropping on the other side of the mountain...just not sure. Some of that stuff is hazy...and better left that way it seems...
But then us ol' DOD civilian types never did have to salute, made too much money, now and then slept on clean sheets, ran all around the countryside and crossed lots and lots of borders with that little sheet of paper, that "get-out-of-jail-free" thang...called "Twenty-four-hour Combat Essential Flyin' Orders", which allowed us to 'bump' Cap'n's and WO's off of any ship,fixed-wing or rotor...
but then I never did see DWS 'over-there' and have the opportunity to 'bump' him but will say sheeper, that's why I'm so nice to ya in long-winded threads like this,
although you're always so dang mean to me.
But, again and again and again, I keep forgettin',
you want to 'stick-it' to somebody every day of your life... [;)]
Besides, I would, if legal by ATF rules, and the price was right, sell a .22 to a dude in mainland China...as long as his draft would clear the bank. Shoot, why not ?
It would be a good warm fuzzy feeeling if I thought I could actually get back some of that so-called 'trade surplus' that seems to be piling up on their side of the Pacific...or maybe it's the Gulf of Siam... ( we'd have to ask the four-legged guy since he usually, but not always, knows everything ).
I really do hate buying things such as Apple Juice at places like Braum's, and then getting home and reading on the label that its a "Made In China" product...sorta' ruins the taste for me, and I'd bet you agree Captplaid from the sound of your posts and patriotic attitude. But...we better be careful or 'he/it' will begin to call us hard-core and right-wingers, and who knows what else.. cause us older folk know how bent out of shape he/it can get...
so we best not antagonize "It". [;)]
But, I carry on too long.
I really came back to check the thread and see if another 'cold drink' buddy ( who also speaks with a Texas twang btw ),
Mr. Double Dog himself...
who I have also been honored to spend more than one evening with.
( TwoDogs, remember how good the Crawfish Etufe is at the seafood joint at your old hometown by the lake ? Been there lately ? Seen that snot-nosed kid that "keeps turning to the right" ? )
Sorry guys, had to throw that in, 'the kid', is Dusty, another eatin'/drinkin' buddy Two Dogs and I have shared a meal or two and some fun with...a long time ago, also.
And finally, DWS:
My 'downhome Texas twang 'kinda comes easy for an ol' country-boy that grew up in the sticks eatin' critters you've only read about,
or maybe seen on some funky late-night TV program...
but, no offense sir,
I'd never 'poke' more fun your way than you can handle [:0].
In fact, ( there I go agin, durn-it-all Mabel - Mabel btw is a sheep I heard lived with 'you-know-who' ), but is it really true sheeper ? Do you really sleep on your stomach ? [xx(]
Have a nice day DWS,
and one last thing, cause right here and now...
I promise, I be takin' an oath,
to and for the Nunn/Heffley/GB and company gang...
that,
I will never again be rude to you after this last question,
and I mean it...
But sir,
My Texas 'twang', although admittedly exagerated a bit
here now and then...
is a natural way of speakin' in these parts,
and wouldn't raise an eyebrow at the best of the country-clubs...
So, the question is...
Is your 'twang' called "Barnyard" ? [;)]
Damn I'm havin' fun...sure hope you let me hang around and play David/Danny/GB... I didn't realize how much I've been missin' you guys !!!
[;)]
www.TheShootersClub.com
www.ALLFOURFEET.com0 -
Saudi Arabia and the King that runs that place really put America in it's place.
They stopped all US military imports into their country in 2001 prior to 9-11 and held all incoming cargo in their customs...then demanded we buy the goods from them for 3x the purchase price....but we already payed for it...it was a crooked, crooked mess that the US Government doesn't want coming out.
All US military vehicles oddly starting popping up with "Made in Saudi Arabia" decals on them....the King was getting brave. He financed Pakistan/North Koreas joint nuclear program in exchange for a few working toys of his own...You paid for them.
The American's in Saudi Arabia wanted to build actual buildings for their military installations but the Saudi's reminded them....you ain't here for much longer. No permanent buildings.
Then this Saudi military General on Prince Sultan Air base decided he was going to see what the Americans have been up to on his airbase....the Americans had a little corner of the airbase....when a lowly E-4 American GI refused to allow this Saudi General by gun point onto the American side....hositilities broke out....the Saudi General locked down all US Marines, Navy, Army, and Air Force on that military base for 2 days...no one was allowed on and no one was allowed off....no American military aircraft flew.
Essentially for 2 days the Saudi Arabians held Americans prisoners in their own military installations...then the politicians bribed the King to calm down and the Americans gave in...and were forced to get Saudi Arabian military ID's......it was the King's military base and Americans had to comply with the King's order.
A few weeks later some Saudi Arabians attacked America....9-11.
Don't cast those Saud's as inept or incapable....they have proved that they can twist Uncle Sam to get whatever they want and robbed the US Treasury of billions over the years by screwing over the Department of Defense...and financed Terrorist nations to create nuclear weapons and missiles in exchange for them getting a couple too.
If America is still selling them weapons....they better be marking up the price ten fold. What they have will cost millions of Americans their blood.0 -
It is my understanding that there has been a stance taken (or at least proposed) in Congress regarding the F-22 Raptor. From what I can tell, a number of our finest[:p]congress people are stongly opposed to selling that aircraft, licensing or technology to anyone. I'm hoping the concensus will recognize the past folly with the F-16. As is fairly obvious, once you sell or license something like this, you have lost control of its use or disuse forever.
I am sure the aircraft factory lobby does not have that view and I say "to hell with them".[:(]0 -
quote:Originally posted by TwoDogs
Aside from the normal mindless drivel posted here.
Any thoughts on the listed topic ?
Good idea or not ?
What will the US do to apease the Israeli's since we are arming thier
enemy ?
The Israelis are actually supporting this sale of arms. If your source isn't telling you that, you should do some research on your own.
We won't have to appease the Israelis on this one.0 -
Yo Jerry aka Outdoortexas, ya might wanna be carefull pickin on the ole Woolite drinker. He left awhile back and pouted for a few weeks, the last guy that did that came back and they made him a moderator!!!!![:D][;)][;)][:p][:)] 0 -
I think this is a great thing. Hopefully in the future the Rifles we sold them will come back in the U.S. as parts kits for civilians.[:D]
God forbid our Govt selling it to us before they cut it into a million pieces.[xx(]0 -
Howdy...Outdoor.
Crawfish are still great went couple months ago.
Not a peep from Dusty.
Maybe I should have let off the "mindless divel" par
DWS slapped me down.
Regarding the thread...I know it's a common practice and the way the world turns now. Just a thought since the troops are there.
Not opposed to the idea...arm em' all, maybe the right one will get
lit-up.
Rob...your rubber boots and matchin boa will be shipped tuesday..[8D]0 -
Chase that boy down buddy,
it worries me that we haven't heard from him and I'm afraid he's had marraige troubles or something... An old hardass detective like yourself could possibly turn him around, I know for a fact he sure did think a lot of you, and looked up to you as well. Do me a favor and track him, I hear you still know how to sniff like a dog...especially if it's a good gun deal...[;)]
When you headed to Fort Worth show again, maybe we could talk Heffley, Nunn, and a couple of others to spend a few hours together for old times sake.
And Pa,
can't remember when we were both on the same thread at one time...
Have to say ( if the powers that be here will overlook it ) you and that 'northern' retired cop are doing a good job at your little hang-out spot too... I just don't get around much anymore, spend all my time in that canoe...but our rivers are all flowing so full right now...if I put in here on the Trinity behind the house...I'd be a Double Dogs boat dock in a couple of hours ...and that's a lot of miles downstream.
Dan55...,
sounds like you're a 'busines' man...
parts is parts...until they are guns... [;)]0 -
Ah sure hook up with everyone else and to hell with your Yankee buddy!!! [:p][:D] 0 -
It's fun when Jerry's back, and guys, I'll do the beer/Crown thing with ya'll anytime! It was as fun as an evening can get, under the circumstances, and since Dawnie came into the picture, I think it was a good thing for david too![:D] 0 -
oho! this is why.
America Refurbishes its Gulf-Red Sea Defenses against Iran Menace
DEBKA-Net-Weekly 298 Updated by DEBKAfile Analysts
July 28, 2007, 3:00 PM (GMT+02:00)
The US Secretaries of State and Defense are traveling together - unusually - next week for a mission weighty enough for the Bush administration to deploy a double-barreled top team.
Built around a massive $20 bn arms deal with Saudi Arabia, it involves a broad boost for US defenses against Iran by means of a three-line deployment strategy across the Persian Gulf and Middle East devised by Secretary Gates.
The system, according to DEBKAfile's sources, has three powerful components or levels:
The Iraq Level: US forces remaining in Iraq after the withdrawal would redeploy to giant extraterritorial land and air bases located mainly in the central and northern regions.
The Gulf Level: The US would double in size the armies and air forces of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Oman, and augment its military facilities in the Gulf region by expansion and new bases.
The Red Sea Level: Jordan and Israel military strength would form the backbone of this line supplemented by new American bases.
On April 27, DEBKA-Net-Weekly 298 divulged the plan when it was still on the drawing board:
American military planners are in the throes of an unprecedented modernization and expansion project for the Gulf emirates' air, missiles and air defense forces, DEBKA-Net-Weekly's military and intelligence sources report.
Its linchpins are the kingdom of Saudi Arabia and sultanate of Oman. At the end of the project, the Saudi air force will be the biggest in the Middle East, nearly the size of Israel's, and equipped with the last word in avionics, electronic warfare systems and missiles.
The function assigned Saudi air fighters in the integrated US defense program is to take on the Iranian air force in an emergency, and prevent its antiquated, low-performance air force from providing support for Iranian naval forces and Iranian marines and saboteurs, should they attempt to seize territory in the Arab emirates.
Iran is known to command 600 bomber-fighters in operating condition.
They include outdated F-4E Phantom II, F5-E and F-14A Tomcats, French Mirage F-1EQ/BQ, Russian MIG-29, Mig-27, MIG-31 and Sukhoi Su-20, 22 and 25. Iran has produced two homemade models: Saeqeh-80 Owj and Azarakhsh. Iran's most advanced fighting craft will be the Sukhoi Su-27 when it enters service in late 2008.
The Saudi air force, with 350 warplanes organized in 17 squadrons, is much smaller than Iran's and not much more advanced. Its backbone of 134 Tornado aircraft includes 48 Tornado IDS. Seventy-two F-15S were added in the second half of the 1990s, joining 41 F-15C/D aircraft which served the Saudi Air Fore from the early 1990s.
Washington plans to double the Saudi combat air fleet, by selling the kingdom front-line fighters, including F-16 C and D and F-15 E - or even possibly the F-22 Raptor stealth plane, to which Israel is strongly opposed, although most Saudi Arabian operational aircraft are piloted by Western aviators, some American.
Another key element in Gates' Level 2 for the Persian Gulf is the conversion of Camp Justice, the US air facility on the Omani island of Masirah, into the biggest American air base in the Persian Gulf and Middle East. An Arabian Sea island, 65 km long by 18 km wide, Masirah lies close to the Strait of Hormuz and the western coast of Iran.
A western military source in the Gulf also reports that a large increment of Marine forces is to be deployed permanently in Kuwait, which lies 130 km west of the nuclear reactor town of Bushehr on the southern Iranian coast.
End of quote from DEBKA-Net-Weekly.
DEBKAfile adds: Since April 18, when deputy secretary of state David Satterfield met King Abdullah in Riyadh and they went through the list of hardware on sale - marking down the king's comments against each item - things have changed in US-Arabian relations; so too has the nature of the Iranian military menace hanging over Saudi Arabia, the Gulf and the Middle East.
These changes are marked in four aspects:
1. Washington and Riyadh are at odds on Iraq. In the beginning, the Americans approved of Saudi financial assistance to Iraqi insurgent groups to give them an incentive to pull away from al Qaeda. In recent weeks, however, the Saudis are equally active in undermining the Iraqi prime minister Nouri al-Maliki, calling him an Iran's agent. This has brought the oil kingdom in direct conflict with the Bush policy.
2. A similar conflict has developed on the Palestinian question. King Abdullah strongly disapproves of US-Israeli backing for the Fatah's Mahmoud Abbas and Salam Fayyad and imposition of an economic boycott against Hamas to overturn its rule in Gaza. The Saudis strongly advocate Palestinian reconciliation, unification of the West Bank and Gaza Strip and acceptance of Hamas as a dominant factor in shaping Palestinian destiny.
3. As oil prices roar towards $80 - and the price of $100 not too far over the horizon - the Bush administration is increasingly critical of Abdullah's refusal to raise sustained capacity production past its permanent 2.1 million barrels per day. If only Riyadh would relent, they say, world markets would be reassured and demand would cool.
4. Responding to the Bush administration's Gulf plans for the Saudi air force and Bush's plan to maintain a post-withdrawal military presence in Iraq, Russian president Vladimir Putin has stepped in with a move of his own: the sale of 250 long-range SU-30MKM fighter-bombers to Iran, as DEBKAfile revealed Friday, July 27.
As acrimony heats up between Washington and Riyadh over key issues, Rice and Gates will have their work cut out next week to talk Saudi leaders round to buying the US Gulf strategy.
we should have left well enough alone with Iraq, to avoid having to do this now. this is turning out to be way too much. we're probably going to have to fight a war with China in the next 10-15-20 years and we'll be understrength.0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
26 comments