My brother consideres military service.
My brother consideres military service.
My [younger] brother is greatly considering service with the air force. I'm all for it and my father has some reservations, but supprots him fully. My mother is worried as I dont blame her.
However I would like to know your guys thoughts on this.
My [younger] brother is greatly considering service with the air force. I'm all for it and my father has some reservations, but supprots him fully. My mother is worried as I dont blame her.
However I would like to know your guys thoughts on this.
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quote:Originally posted by idsman75
I'm relaying what the many airmen who fall under me tell me. They're here because they were forced to change their jobs if they want to re-enlist. The Air Force has been over-strength beyond what was Congressionally allowed several years ago and they're still cutting back. It makes for slow promotion. I'm not spouting what Hollywood is telling me. I'm reflecting the entire purpose for the Blue To Green program and what is being told by the Air Force students that fall under the responsibility of my unit.I'm not disagreeing with you about some being forced to either retrain or get out. Back in the 90's recruitment was tougher and lots of people were enlisted. This fattened up the ranks quite a bit, then along came the war and the the USAF's role changed dramatically. They now have some serious imbalances among their career fields. Some are overmanned, but others are staying chronically short. They're trying to fill these with people who are already in, but if they're not willing to retrain they're pushed out of the way. Notice how they're still offering lots of large enlistment/re-enlistment bonuses, but not for every field.
If someone considering enlisting in the USAF is concerned about advancement possibilities, it's just a matter of going into one of their many chronic-critical jobs.0 -
quote:Originally posted by catpealer111
Hearing that the Air Force being over maned is kinda amusing to me. My squadron has been operating a 70% or less for the past 4 to 5 years.
Look at your UMD (unit manning document). Your squadron earn manpower authorizations based on AF manpower standards and other applicable variances. Don't be confused with authorizations (spaces) over assigned (faces). I guarantee you have more assigned than authorized due to overlapping as a result of PCS. You can also look at your UMPR, you'll see that some of those authorizations are double billeted, and on some cases triple billeted - meaning their is more than one person assigned to that authorization. If you have any question, call or visit your local servicing Manpower Office.
I conducted a management advisory study on a fighter unit that is suppose to be less than 70% manned. I re-applied their manpower standards based on current mission requirements and found 2 authorizations that they no longer earn. In addition, I found 40% of their workload were indirect, assumed, duplication of effort, rework, and no value added. When I asked them if there is any directives mandating them to do these workload, they cannot produce anything to substantiate what they have been doing for many years. After process improvement initiatives, we quantified close to 60% improvement totaling ~$26 million dollars savings.
Manning is not always the problem. If you can identify improvements and cost savings, consider the Innovative Development through Employee Awareness (iDEA) or Productivity Enhancing Capital Investment (PECI) programs. Your Manpower Office is also the POC for these AF programs.
Good Luck!0 -
IDS...you are right in the fact that they are forcing crosstraining out of certain AFSCs (MOS). If you don't take the new career field you can opt to take the BLUE TO GREEN route or you can find your way out the door. They are targeting a certain zone (usually the 3-6 year and the 7-12 year personnel).
This is not really that new (happened in the early 90s as well. I have seen alot of ups and downs in the AF for the last 25 years.
As to the days of the AF not being in the fight...long gone. Maintainers may not do front line duty as we tend to keep our High Value Assets (read bomber airframes) out of harms way at locations that do not see attacks. Some of our fighter airframes are in FOLs like Kirkuk, Tallil, etc.
Our Security Forces, Tactical Airlift Control Party and other Special Operations Command personnel are in the sheet daily. Guess what...now our Trans folks, Civil Engineering personnel and others are doing the convoy duties for the Army. It is called "In Lieu of Taskings" because the Army needs their personnel on the patrols.
Even those of us in the medical arena have changed our roles. We have done convoy duty as Medics and have moved out of the EMEDS (CASHs) and Theater Hospitals outside the wire in Iraq and Afghanistan to work on the Provintial Reconstruction Teams (PRTs).
The AF has changed. For the better if you ask me. We have gone from being a rear echelon based force that sent the pilots to the fight to weaving ourselves into the fight with our brothers and sisters from the other services. I have always believed in the "One Team...One Fight" attitude. Whatever it takes to get the job done and all of us come home in one piece.0 -
Go Navy-[:I] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by idsman75
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
quote:Originally posted by nunn
USAF is a great service, if your brother doesn't mind serving in a support function.
There are only two kinds of soldier: Infantry and infantry support.
Finally someone around here agrees with me.
And it couldn't be further from the truth. None of the missions I performed in Iraq remotely supported the Infantry. I supported a few Trans and Quartermaster units by providing them with my gun trucks but that's about it. I may have given rides to a few of the Cavalry officers but that's about it.
Even this Navy guy knows, It's about "the bloody infantry".
RA Heinlein
(read a few of his books, if you are considering service)0 -
I regret not going [:(] 0 -
The air farce is a bunch of turtle wimps.
Douyg0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
The air farce is a bunch of turtle wimps.Nothing like running up the ol' post count with an occasional uninformed one liner. [;)]0 -
Tell any young man or woman that, if they think they might like the military, to do it. Even a short stint as a reservist will make a huge difference in their life. I jumped in at a bad time by some folks' standards -- '71 -- but I still have no regrets. The worst regrets come from NOT doing something. 0 -
The Air Force cutbacks are a temporary thing. In 3 years or more when he would be faced with reenlistment, CJRs (career job reservations) should be readily handed out again. testing cut-offs will also be lowered to retain and promote to fill in the ranks due to attrition.
IMHO...this is a good time to enlist in the Air Force. Job drops come out monthly with forcasted shortages in career fields. Should he choose to go with a guaranteed job he may be waiting up to a year before he ships to BMT, which would even better his chances that manning levels will increase.
Whichever branch he chooses, I advise him to check out www.military.com and the message forums there. There are forums for each branch and window shopping is welcomed....well...sorta[;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by scrumpyjack
The Air Force cutbacks are a temporary thing. In 3 years or more when he would be faced with reenlistment, CJRs (career job reservations) should be readily handed out again.
Not quite! Unfortunately with the PBD (Program Budget Decision) 720 (and its other off shoot versions) reduction initiatives, military-to-civilian conversions, civilian reductions, etc ..., we have projected cuts until 2010 in our unit manning documents to pay for modernization and the last few years' GWOT expenditures. We were already given a heads up to expect further cuts and identify (my job to quantify) them ASAP. Sec. Gates $190B request has to come from somewhere, unfortunately, one of the easiest and most costly expenditure is the personnel cost. [V]0 -
If he wants to be around airplanes .... I would suggest he consider the service with the most fighter planes ...the "U.S. NAVY !"
Machinist Mate 1ST Class, United States Navy (retired)0 -
Do it for God and Country, or don't do it at all. 0 -
The Air Force is wimps?
I have to disagree with that. When the 82nd Airborne landed on an airbase and walked over a red line...it was Air Force Security Forces that shoved M16's in the faces of the 82nd and put them on the ground......I would classify that as either utter stupidity or balls of Chuck Norris.
Air Force Security Farces trumped 82nd Airborne. Wow. Happened. The 82nd Airborne was actually dumb enough to let the AF Cops put them on the ground and put guns to their heads. If it would have been me....shoot me you retard...but for some reason....the 82nd feared the AF.
Just prior to 9-11 the Army, Air Force, Navy, and Marines were operating on Prince Sultan Air Base, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia....the largest military Air Base in the world. ?merica operated out of a corner of it. The Saudi General wanted to come and take a look at what America was doing on his Air Base....it was a Air Force E-4 that told that Saudi General he wasn't allowed on our soil......and the Saudi's locked down the US Armed Forces for 2 days...no one came on and no one left. The politicians and State Department had to intervene to clean that mess up. The US Armed Forces had to get SAUDI MILITARY ID's after that incident. Why? An Air Force wimp?
I say he had the balls of Chuck Norris. [:D][:D]
Feenix,
Those budget cuts are a hoax. We are supposed to have 4 civilians to run trucks around to suck poop from airplanes. Our Commander has one of those positions being used by his secretary. He's a former C-5 pilot and worked Air Staff....he can do whatever the heck he wants. Anything. You or no auditor can touch him.
You ain't fooling me with budgets or the perceived thought of oversight. Doesn't exist. Atleast not in AMC.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ObiWan
Feenix,
Those budget cuts are a hoax. We are supposed to have 4 civilians to run trucks around to suck poop from airplanes. Our Commander has one of those positions being used by his secretary. He's a former C-5 pilot and worked Air Staff....he can do whatever the heck he wants. Anything. You or no auditor can touch him.
You ain't fooling me with budgets or the perceived thought of oversight. Doesn't exist. Atleast not in AMC.
You are entitled to that opinion and in any means I am not trying to fool you or anyone else and as Bill Murray said in Stripes "that's the fact Jack" [:p]. I have nothing to do with budget nor any oversight. My job is to quantify requirements and provide management advisory. Those 4 civilians you mentioned should be used at functions where they are earned. In other words, you have the manning required and my job is done, however, how senior leadership decides to use them is a different story. It's their resources, and they have the flexibility to utilize them where they deem necessary.0 -
Yep.
D.0 -
AF/NAVY would be the safest bet. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ruger270man
AF/NAVY would be the safest bet.
My son applied for the USAFA and USNA respectively and would accepted either offer. USAFA came through first. He is now in Colorado Springs having a blast.0 -
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
quote:Originally posted by nunn
USAF is a great service, if your brother doesn't mind serving in a support function.
There are only two kinds of soldier: Infantry and infantry support.
Finally someone around here agrees with me.
You are absolutely right ... after the Air Force (and other aviation units from the other services) established air superiority, pound the enemy ground offenses/defenses, and lay the red carpet down for you guys to go in and end the conflict in less than 100 hours during Desert Shield/Storm ... just ask "Norm" [:p][}:)][^].
Actually, there was more ordnance fired by the U.S. Army Field Artillery (called King of Battle for a reason) than was dropped, launched, or fired in one way or another by the Navy or the Air Force.0 -
Tell him to go to college instead. Rack up student loans if he has to, and after he completes school then decide whether the military is for him or not. I was in the Army, am proud I served, but hated 80% of my time in. Grew up quite a bit while I served, but it was difficult being on my toes constantly for years. The Airforce is more laxed than the other services, and they treated their soldiers 500 times better than the other services did (In my opinion). There are some great incentives out there so I would weigh the pros and cons, like signing your personal freedoms away, before he makes such a permanent far reaching decision. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by idsman75
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
quote:Originally posted by nunn
USAF is a great service, if your brother doesn't mind serving in a support function.
There are only two kinds of soldier: Infantry and infantry support.
Finally someone around here agrees with me.
You are absolutely right ... after the Air Force (and other aviation units from the other services) established air superiority, pound the enemy ground offenses/defenses, and lay the red carpet down for you guys to go in and end the conflict in less than 100 hours during Desert Shield/Storm ... just ask "Norm" [:p][}:)][^].
Actually, there was more ordnance fired by the U.S. Army Field Artillery (called King of Battle for a reason) than was dropped, launched, or fired in one way or another by the Navy or the Air Force.
Command & Control is the heart and soul of their offenses and defenses, it was taken out in the first strike by air and space superiority, not artillery ... ask Norm again to ask Chuck Horner [:)][:D][8D][:p][}:)][;)][^]
Saturation (carpet bombing) from heavy bombers like the BUFF (that's for you Catpealer111) 24/7 augmented by artillery and others, definitely ruined their day [^].
God bless our troops.0
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