ATF Audit
Yesterday I stopped off at the local pawn shop to order a case of ammo. My friend there said he was going through an ATF audit. Auditor had been there for two days and would be back today. I was told that everything had been checked three times thus far. This is the first ATF audit for this small store in our "out-of-the-way" town. However, the auditor stated that they are under instructions to audit "every" pawn shop in Texas before the end of 2008. They are collecting serial numbers of all of the guns of specific types that have been sold --- ARs, AKs, 1911s, Beretta pistols, etc. The guns being used in the gun fights around the border are mostly obtained in the US. If one of these is identified, then it can be traced back to a purchaser at a specific store. Just a "heads-up" for anyone who might need to know.
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It is against the law for them to just collect information. They can go through and check to see if your paperwork is in order....and they can do a TRACE on a gun if they need to.....but they cannot compose a database of information using our sales records. That is a VERY BIG no-no!!!! Someone who knows that is happening needs to check into the laws and notify all the powers that be....and stop it. 0 -
I did not mean to imply that the audit was not a thorough check of all the records. Apparently, it is a very thorough check of every piece of paperwork. However, I was told that the auditor was writing down the serial numbers of every sale of certain types of guns. Not the name of the purchaser, just the s/n of the item. This list of serial numbers would be maintained with identity to the store that made the sale. Thus, if needed in the future, they could come back and identify the purchaser of that particular item. 0 -
wtroper - still breakin the rules I think... I'm no lawyer or even FFL, but I think that they can just make sure that the paperwork is complete and proper, not record *anything*.
Besides, once they get a gun wtih a serial, they go to the starting point - manufacturer/importer, then distributer, then FFL that bought it from distributer, to wherever the log book for that FFL points (person, another FFL, back to a different distributer, etc) until they run down to an individual.0 -
Wait a minute. Are we discussing things that an government agency "can" do? Or are we talking about what they're "supposed" to do? Because we all know the Government "can" do any damn thing they want, whether or not it's legal. There is a 1000-mile-long list of precedent to prove it. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
It is against the law for them to just collect information. They can go through and check to see if your paperwork is in order....and they can do a TRACE on a gun if they need to.....but they cannot compose a database of information using our sales records. That is a VERY BIG no-no!!!! Someone who knows that is happening needs to check into the laws and notify all the powers that be....and stop it.
Next time your inspected, ask the inspector who "owns" the 4473's.
[:0][:D]
Don0 -
We were "spot" checked yesterday again . .thats like the 3rd time in the last 6 months for us .. they pulled a few names , checked a few other things and were gone .. We are in upstate NY 0 -
They hit a local Pawn shop that I do business with. Claimed they found some problem and yanked his FFL. He claims his books were legit and proper and is appealing. 0 -
I can't imagine the headache the audit trail and log bogs have to be.
I used to maintain OSHA safety certificates, and that was dang near impossible. Nearly every Permit Required Confined Space Permit had a mistake. Every mistake is finable in an OSHA audit.0 -
My local guy had his first audit about 6 months ago here in NC. He's been in business for @ 25 years. Got a ration of crap because he had a few uncataloged/couldn't find the record junk/non-functioning (and I DO mean JUNK!)guns in an old box under twenty years of stuff in the back. Guy is the straightest arrow you'd ever hope to meet. The amount of paperwork you ffl guys have to keep up with is insane. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
It is against the law for them to just collect information. They can go through and check to see if your paperwork is in order....and they can do a TRACE on a gun if they need to.....but they cannot compose a database of information using our sales records. That is a VERY BIG no-no!!!! Someone who knows that is happening needs to check into the laws and notify all the powers that be....and stop it.
Who do you call to report the ATF ?0 -
quote:Originally posted by EhlerDave
quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
It is against the law for them to just collect information. They can go through and check to see if your paperwork is in order....and they can do a TRACE on a gun if they need to.....but they cannot compose a database of information using our sales records. That is a VERY BIG no-no!!!! Someone who knows that is happening needs to check into the laws and notify all the powers that be....and stop it.
Who do you call to report the ATF ?
The ACLU.0 -
quote:Originally posted by cartod
quote:Originally posted by EhlerDave
Who do you call to report the ATF ?
The ACLU.
Now there's a good idea...0 -
If you see them doing something that you think they shouldn't do....all you can do is point out that you are keeping up with what they are doing. Like the list of serial numbers....you can say you would like a copy of that list they made so you can give it to your lawyers and mention its NOT because of anything you need.....but because little ole' me doesn't understand what such a list would be used for.
(and it is a big no-no for them to compile lists like this using our records)0
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