Pulled Over While Carrying- What Do You Do?
EXCELENT ARTICAL! I got it from my USCCA news letter!
You Get Pulled Over While Carrying- What Do You Do?
by: J. Pieters
I am a cop.
I stop you for a violation of motor vehicle code or law.
You have a weapon.
You have a concealed weapons permit.
What happens now?
I am writing this article as a cop. I am and have been that armed citizen, but that is not what I want to focus on. I am writing this article as a guide to dealing with us cops. Now, everyone has a story about cops. A large majority of those stories may not be what one could describe as "the most wonderful and joyous occasion in recent memory". Realizing that we are always judged as a group, I try not to be "one of those cops". I have a background in the Marine Corps and grew up shooting and hunting from my earliest memories. My part time job (most cops have some other gig) is working in a local gun shop selling firearms.
I do not question the armed citizen's reasons behind carrying a gun. I understand and promote the concept of an armed and educated citizenry. There are differences in how you and I carry and employ weapons and how we may be involved in a deadly force encounter, but that isn't what I want to focus on either. My goal here is to provide food for thought when dealing with a police encounter on the street or in your vehicle, while you are armed. I want to do this from my prospective as it may help you to understand it better. Sometimes in order to see things clearly, we have to see it from the reverse angle.
Where I work and live, in Michigan, folks who have a concealed pistol license are required to inform the officer stopping them that they have a weapon with/on them. They can be subject to a civil infraction fine if they do not disclose this information. When not carrying the weapon, they need not do this. I realize that other states may not require this disclosure to be made. Some people may say that it is none of my business whether or not you have your weapon on you or in your car. To a certain extent, I can understand this. It seems intrusive when you are stopped and detained on a traffic offense. It certainly seems intrusive when you get a ticket right? My question is why not tell the officer? What do you have to lose by telling me that you have your weapon on you?
Are you lawfully carrying your weapon? Yes.
Is that the reason I stopped you? No.
What are the ramifications of the officer knowing that you have your weapon on you (lawfully)? Well, I have heard many stories about cops doing things such as taking possession of the weapon during the course of the traffic stop. I have heard of officers who may instruct the weapon to be placed in a visible spot in the vehicle until the stop is concluded. I have heard all sorts of stories about the cops that don't even know how to unload a different weapon than the one that they carry. I do not do any of these things, and I would not recommend these practices to other officers. Truth be told, I vary rarely come into contact with concealed pistol licensees in general. Why? CCW people just don't break the law that much. Upon occasion, I have stopped those with weapons permits in my jurisdiction.
My concerns when approaching the vehicle are primarily the occupants of the car. Traffic is always a secondary concern as is the rest of the environment of the stop, but that is my problem, not necessarily yours. What I look for may be the positioning of the hands. What I like to see is both hands visible. A good place for the driver is on the wheel, 10 and 2 if you will. It is easy for me to see this as I approach from either side of the vehicle. Passengers in a vehicle who may be armed can place their hands in their laps if possible. This may seem somewhat remedial, but you would not believe how many people start digging in their vehicle like they were mining for gold.
Picture yourself in my situation; just clearing an intensive domestic assault call or stand off with a suicidal subject and my first traffic stop afterwards is searching frantically around the car for god knows what.
1. Don't dig around looking for your paperwork, that French fry you dropped when the lights came on or your kid's pacifier. I do not enjoy putting you at gunpoint. It is stressful for both of us. We can avoid this problem by staying put and keep our hands comfortably visible. I say 'stay put'; I mean stay in the vehicle. I realize that some jurisdictions may ask you to step from the vehicle. Do so when asked. Again, this may seem remedial, but someone who exits a car, without being asked, on a traffic stop gives an impression that he is either going to do us harm or run from us.
2. Make eye contact with the officer. Nothing says "I'm crazy" or "I have something to hide" like the 1000 yard stare down the roadway. This behavior has led to several searches, arrests, and some altercations upon further investigation.
3. Like Mr. Rourke of Fantasy Island was fond of saying "Smiles everybody, smiles!" Make eye contact and smile. It will let the officer know that he can communicate with you.
4. If you have the gun lying on the seat next to you or in plain sight, plan on having that muzzle related talk mentioned earlier. We know that an action beats a reaction almost every time. A visible weapon is an accessible weapon to a suspect. Concealed Carry means CONCEALED. Unless regulated by statute, I do not want to see your weapon. It would seem obvious, but even if you know this officer, this is no time to play a prank or joke. I don't come to your work area and play practical jokes on you, do not do it to me. Your motives may be playful but the results could be devastating to you and the officer. I have had people do this before. For the life of me I do not know why and the resulting opinion is that the officer is a jerk for not getting the joke.
Photo courtesy of www.uky.edu
5. No sudden movements to see if he is paying attention. No furtive movements to joke around.This may not be a potential lethal force encounter to you. It is to us, all of the time.
6. The time to inform the officer is upon his greeting. Do not say "I have a gun". Never utter this phrase. Never utter any variation of this phrase. There is no good that can come from that phrase when said to an officer. All we hear is "have a gun" and the rest is implied. The highway can be a noisy place and we may not hear everything you said.
7. Greet him and tell him you have a concealed weapons permit and the weapon is on your person/in the car.
8. Hand him your permit with your operator's license and any required paperwork like your registration and proof of insurance. The officer will likely ask where the weapon is. Tell him. There is no reason not to as long as you are abiding by local and state laws. Do not reach for the weapon unless asked to do so. Most officers, me included will not tell you to do this.
9. The officer will most likely tell you very specifically to stay put or give further instructions based on training, experience, and departmental guidelines or operating procedures. Bear in mind that some agencies may have procedures and some may not. If you feel that action was taken that was unnecessary or infringed on your rights, check into the existence of a guideline or policy in the department involved. If you are polite and proper, you may just even get out of a citation. You may not agree with the citation. This is not the time for that discussion. There are hearings for that. Even if you get a citation, thank the officer and be on your way. Take him to court to air your grievances.
Remember that you are a representative of all the concealed weapons permit holders out there, just as we are all the same cops. You have a responsibility to your fellow armed citizens to act in a manner that reflects well on your piers. A bad incident involving a permit holder will resound with all the power that the media can muster. Your good behavior will not make headlines on a regular basis what so ever, but you may save the day once in your life.
In that respect, we are a lot alike.
J. Peters is a Law Enforcement Officer with over 10 years experience as certified officer, and was in the USMC Reserves from 1989-1998.
You Get Pulled Over While Carrying- What Do You Do?
by: J. Pieters
I am a cop.
I stop you for a violation of motor vehicle code or law.
You have a weapon.
You have a concealed weapons permit.
What happens now?
I am writing this article as a cop. I am and have been that armed citizen, but that is not what I want to focus on. I am writing this article as a guide to dealing with us cops. Now, everyone has a story about cops. A large majority of those stories may not be what one could describe as "the most wonderful and joyous occasion in recent memory". Realizing that we are always judged as a group, I try not to be "one of those cops". I have a background in the Marine Corps and grew up shooting and hunting from my earliest memories. My part time job (most cops have some other gig) is working in a local gun shop selling firearms.
I do not question the armed citizen's reasons behind carrying a gun. I understand and promote the concept of an armed and educated citizenry. There are differences in how you and I carry and employ weapons and how we may be involved in a deadly force encounter, but that isn't what I want to focus on either. My goal here is to provide food for thought when dealing with a police encounter on the street or in your vehicle, while you are armed. I want to do this from my prospective as it may help you to understand it better. Sometimes in order to see things clearly, we have to see it from the reverse angle.
Where I work and live, in Michigan, folks who have a concealed pistol license are required to inform the officer stopping them that they have a weapon with/on them. They can be subject to a civil infraction fine if they do not disclose this information. When not carrying the weapon, they need not do this. I realize that other states may not require this disclosure to be made. Some people may say that it is none of my business whether or not you have your weapon on you or in your car. To a certain extent, I can understand this. It seems intrusive when you are stopped and detained on a traffic offense. It certainly seems intrusive when you get a ticket right? My question is why not tell the officer? What do you have to lose by telling me that you have your weapon on you?
Are you lawfully carrying your weapon? Yes.
Is that the reason I stopped you? No.
What are the ramifications of the officer knowing that you have your weapon on you (lawfully)? Well, I have heard many stories about cops doing things such as taking possession of the weapon during the course of the traffic stop. I have heard of officers who may instruct the weapon to be placed in a visible spot in the vehicle until the stop is concluded. I have heard all sorts of stories about the cops that don't even know how to unload a different weapon than the one that they carry. I do not do any of these things, and I would not recommend these practices to other officers. Truth be told, I vary rarely come into contact with concealed pistol licensees in general. Why? CCW people just don't break the law that much. Upon occasion, I have stopped those with weapons permits in my jurisdiction.
My concerns when approaching the vehicle are primarily the occupants of the car. Traffic is always a secondary concern as is the rest of the environment of the stop, but that is my problem, not necessarily yours. What I look for may be the positioning of the hands. What I like to see is both hands visible. A good place for the driver is on the wheel, 10 and 2 if you will. It is easy for me to see this as I approach from either side of the vehicle. Passengers in a vehicle who may be armed can place their hands in their laps if possible. This may seem somewhat remedial, but you would not believe how many people start digging in their vehicle like they were mining for gold.
Picture yourself in my situation; just clearing an intensive domestic assault call or stand off with a suicidal subject and my first traffic stop afterwards is searching frantically around the car for god knows what.
1. Don't dig around looking for your paperwork, that French fry you dropped when the lights came on or your kid's pacifier. I do not enjoy putting you at gunpoint. It is stressful for both of us. We can avoid this problem by staying put and keep our hands comfortably visible. I say 'stay put'; I mean stay in the vehicle. I realize that some jurisdictions may ask you to step from the vehicle. Do so when asked. Again, this may seem remedial, but someone who exits a car, without being asked, on a traffic stop gives an impression that he is either going to do us harm or run from us.
2. Make eye contact with the officer. Nothing says "I'm crazy" or "I have something to hide" like the 1000 yard stare down the roadway. This behavior has led to several searches, arrests, and some altercations upon further investigation.
3. Like Mr. Rourke of Fantasy Island was fond of saying "Smiles everybody, smiles!" Make eye contact and smile. It will let the officer know that he can communicate with you.
4. If you have the gun lying on the seat next to you or in plain sight, plan on having that muzzle related talk mentioned earlier. We know that an action beats a reaction almost every time. A visible weapon is an accessible weapon to a suspect. Concealed Carry means CONCEALED. Unless regulated by statute, I do not want to see your weapon. It would seem obvious, but even if you know this officer, this is no time to play a prank or joke. I don't come to your work area and play practical jokes on you, do not do it to me. Your motives may be playful but the results could be devastating to you and the officer. I have had people do this before. For the life of me I do not know why and the resulting opinion is that the officer is a jerk for not getting the joke.
Photo courtesy of www.uky.edu
5. No sudden movements to see if he is paying attention. No furtive movements to joke around.This may not be a potential lethal force encounter to you. It is to us, all of the time.
6. The time to inform the officer is upon his greeting. Do not say "I have a gun". Never utter this phrase. Never utter any variation of this phrase. There is no good that can come from that phrase when said to an officer. All we hear is "have a gun" and the rest is implied. The highway can be a noisy place and we may not hear everything you said.
7. Greet him and tell him you have a concealed weapons permit and the weapon is on your person/in the car.
8. Hand him your permit with your operator's license and any required paperwork like your registration and proof of insurance. The officer will likely ask where the weapon is. Tell him. There is no reason not to as long as you are abiding by local and state laws. Do not reach for the weapon unless asked to do so. Most officers, me included will not tell you to do this.
9. The officer will most likely tell you very specifically to stay put or give further instructions based on training, experience, and departmental guidelines or operating procedures. Bear in mind that some agencies may have procedures and some may not. If you feel that action was taken that was unnecessary or infringed on your rights, check into the existence of a guideline or policy in the department involved. If you are polite and proper, you may just even get out of a citation. You may not agree with the citation. This is not the time for that discussion. There are hearings for that. Even if you get a citation, thank the officer and be on your way. Take him to court to air your grievances.
Remember that you are a representative of all the concealed weapons permit holders out there, just as we are all the same cops. You have a responsibility to your fellow armed citizens to act in a manner that reflects well on your piers. A bad incident involving a permit holder will resound with all the power that the media can muster. Your good behavior will not make headlines on a regular basis what so ever, but you may save the day once in your life.
In that respect, we are a lot alike.
J. Peters is a Law Enforcement Officer with over 10 years experience as certified officer, and was in the USMC Reserves from 1989-1998.
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Good information from the LEO perspective. If the persons hands are in view and your state requires you to inform, I don't have a problem.
The other problem is when you think that the handgun is concealed, but the LEO sees the bulge. That is why during a traffic stop, if you keep your hands in view, and make no sudden movements you will not have to stare at that .40 cal hole in the end of his barrel.0 -
I love the advice someone recently gave here (jokingly- i hope) about it being best to unload the gun as the officer walks up to the car 0 -
If stopped, I usually hang both hands out of the window. If at night, I turn on the dome light right after I have safely stopped the vehicle.
The few times I have been stopped, the guy never even asked to see the weapon.0 -
What if you don't have a carry permit (because you live where it is not allowed), you get pulled over, and there is a weapon in the vehicle and you're in another state?? Not on you but in the vehicle and you are legally allowed to own it?
Is there any point in mentioning it?
To take a gamble that the cop would be pro-gun over anti-gun for the sake of conversation would be foolish, IMO.0 -
[8D]--I can totally agree with almost everything Mr. Peters says, except--
--The hands on the lap--
--[:)][:)]--JIMBO0 -
In retrospect, it was probably a bad move on my part, screaming "Bitch had it comin'!" when he asked for my license and registration. 0 -
Good advice.
Thanks for sharing.0 -
Disclosure is not required in my state.
If asked, I'll answer truthfully.
Otherwise, it's called........concealed.........0 -
I think the Officers can look on their computer when they pull you over and see that you have a CPL because they never asked if I had a weapon in the car until I got my CPL.
I have no problem at all letting the officer know I have a loaded firearm in the car if he or she asks.0 -
When Im working I do come in contact with alot of CCH permits here in Va. I want the driver to inform me of the weapon, that way I feel he is being honest and not a serious threat. I usually tell them to leaave the weapon where its at. If I get a hit or major law violation I will run the firearm to see if its stolen. But this seldom happens, and we usually part with a handshake.[;)] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by jimbowby
[8D]--I can totally agree with almost everything Mr. Peters says, except--
--The hands on the lap--
--[:)][:)]--JIMBO
I was thinking the same.0 -
I was stopped in Oklahoma for doing 73 in a 70. I did not tell the officer I had a pistol until he asked. He went ballistic and had me get the pistol for him (it was in my suitcase). I then had to sit in his car while he ran the pistol and checked to see if I was in trouble for carrying a pistol in Oklahoma. He called his supervisor who told him that "Oklahoma does not have a problem with Georgia".
After everything was clear, he explained to me that he was a CHL instructor for the State of Oklahoma. Never did give me a ticket for speeding. Don0 -
I know I keep my licence and my CWP in the same removeable holder in my wallet.
When I pull it out to hand to an officer (if needed, as I have not been pulled over in a very long time) I am handing them both at the same time.
As for my hands: I can see the point others have made and I agree and would leave them on the steering wheel.0 -
I`ve been stopped once since I`ve had my ccw.I wasn`t carrying at the time,and informed the officer of that fact anyway because they run your plate and usually know you have the permit before ever approaching your car. He thanked me for that.Before he got out of his car I had my registration and insurance out of the glove box and on the dash in front of me and my hands visible.No problem. 0 -
I have dark tinted windows, so IF I was pulled over, I would turn on the dome light, and bring the front windows down, as I was pulling over, then put my hands out the window.
They would have no problem seeing mine, as I carry it holstered in a tray that is between my visors, up high. The holster sticks in there perfect, so all I have to do is pop the thumbreak, and pull.
Like GRD, I also keep my permit right with my DL.
Haven't been pulled over in a very long time though.0 -
It always KILLS me when I hear about people telling police officers...."I have a gun" as they are walking toward the car. I can just imagine what would have happened to them is I were the officer walking up and that was yelled back to me as I were walking up. It sounds like a threat for certain. I haven't been pulled over much, but I have never had any type of problem with it. In the past couple years I have been pulled over twice (speeding....I know....slow down) and I just asked the officers "Have I seen you in the store?" It lets them know....there are going to be guns in this car....but its ok...I'm just your average heavily armed speeder. 0 -
Orygun flags the CHL on the Driver's license file in the DMV computer, so the policeman already knows you have the license, and may be carrying. As soon as he reaches my lowered window, I tell him I have a CHL, and whether or not I am carrying or have one in the car. I, too, turn the interior lights on when I turn the hazard lights on and put my hands at 10 & 2.
I have been pulled over half a dozen (or so) times since I got the CHL, and only got cited a couple of times.
I have always been treated (at least) fairly by policemen. I would not want the heavy responsibilites they carry, bondai notwithstanding.
By the way, thanks for the article.
Doug0 -
I am a resident of Michigan and have a CPL.
I have not been pulled over but have been involved in an accident. I was the middle vehicle in a three-car accident. Lady behind me rear-ended me causing me to hit the guy in front of me on the highway.
Once the Sheriff arrived he was not in a very good mood. I don't know if it was the accident but he was very guff with the lady who ran into me. I handed him my drivers license and my CPL card and told him I was not carrying and I do not have any firearms in my vehicle.
His attitude totally changed. He was much more pleasant to deal with and offered me a seat in the front seat of the patrol car because it was going to take a while to sort this all out.
I just see telling the officer that you have a concealed permit as letting him know that you are an upstanding member of society and have nothing to hide from him or her.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dcon12
I was stopped in Oklahoma for doing 73 in a 70. I did not tell the officer I had a pistol until he asked. He went ballistic and had me get the pistol for him (it was in my suitcase). I then had to sit in his car while he ran the pistol and checked to see if I was in trouble for carrying a pistol in Oklahoma. He called his supervisor who told him that "Oklahoma does not have a problem with Georgia".
After everything was clear, he explained to me that he was a CHL instructor for the State of Oklahoma. Never did give me a ticket for speeding. Don
I doubt he stopped you for speeding anyway. Most cops won't bother you for anything less than 5 over. Unless maybe in a school zone. I've driven 5 over (on Hwy's) in every state in the lower 48. Never been stopped.
Not all speedometers are calibrated exactly the same. So there is some speedometer variation. Of course a cop has his calibrated radar gun and IT is the last word. But generally appearing in court when you fight a 3 over ticket isn't worth his time.
If you had out of state plates, he probably just wanted to check you out to see if you running drugs or something.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Fatstrat
quote:Originally posted by dcon12
I was stopped in Oklahoma for doing 73 in a 70. I did not tell the officer I had a pistol until he asked. He went ballistic and had me get the pistol for him (it was in my suitcase). I then had to sit in his car while he ran the pistol and checked to see if I was in trouble for carrying a pistol in Oklahoma. He called his supervisor who told him that "Oklahoma does not have a problem with Georgia".
After everything was clear, he explained to me that he was a CHL instructor for the State of Oklahoma. Never did give me a ticket for speeding. Don
I doubt he stopped you for speeding anyway. Most cops won't bother you for anything less than 5 over. Unless maybe in a school zone. I've driven 5 over (on Hwy's) in every state in the lower 48. Never been stopped.
Not all speedometers are calibrated exactly the same. So there is some speedometer variation. Of course a cop has his calibrated radar gun and IT is the last word. But generally appearing in court when you fight a 3 over ticket isn't worth his time.
If you had out of state plates, he probably just wanted to check you out to see if you running drugs or something.
That's called profiling and NO COP would do that. I also know that he did not stop me for speeding as a pickup was passing me in the other lane. He was just going to see if an out of stater could possibly make the State of Oklahoma a chunk of change. Don0 -
i know we are talking pistols but what about shot guns?
i almost always have one in the truckusually in the back seat in some kind of case, but durning hunting season it might be sitting/laying on the front seat.
i had a good laugh at the guy last year that pulled me over opening day at like 5 in the morning. full dressed in camo, gun next to me, pulling in the farm drive- for a stinking tail light in the middle of no where (sry i know it is his job) " so you huntin this morning" "not gona use that gun right now are we" no officer please just write the ticket so i can get to my stand, he was fast thank god0 -
[8D]-After reviewing this "POST" my Humble advice is ----
--When and if stopped -for anything -is--
--For all concerned-KEEP YOUR HANDS ON WHEEL AND --
----SHOT THE bleen UP---
----jimbo
.0 -
I have a Michigan CPL & was pulled over with my old 1908 colt. I told the officer that I have a CPL, and that it's in my glovebox. He asked to see it, and I gave it to him. He then asked if it was "hot". I said "no, I own it". Then then said "I mean loaded". We discussed the merits of getting shot with a .25 (we agreed that it probably wouldn't tickle), and I was on my way. 0 -
I think I posted this before, but the last time I was pulled over, it was for a license plate lamp out. The CSP trooper walked up to my car, shined the light at the bottle of water in my console, then at my face, chuckled, and said, "Well, this is gonna be a waste of time". He knew me and knows that I don't drink (It was 11:00 PM). He then shined the light back to the Stainless, 7-1/2" Super Blackhawk in the seat next to me and asked, "New toy, huh?" then asked me to unload it so he could take a look at it. We chatted about his new sniper rifle, then he allowed as how he should oughtta get back to work and bid me a friendly adieu.
I guess it don't count if you've bought a gun from that particular cop, eh?0 -
In WA, all vehicles registered and the license of the CWP holder are in the system. When your plate is run in WACIC/ACCESS, the information is flagged in regards to a permit. 0 -
Got stopped with a M-1 on the back seat. Cop took it back to his car( my guess was to run it) When he brought it back he put it in the seat his self, not letting me touch it. Boy did he scedaddle after that. 0 -
We won't get into what happens when you take a Remington Laredo 7mmSTW to Locust Fork High school. 0 -
The only time I have been stopped since getting my CHL(64 in a 55), I turned on the flashers and dome light, lowered my driver's side window and put my hands outside. When the trooper asked for my driver's license, I handed him both the DL and CHL. He wanted to know if I had a gun on me, and I told him it was in the console. He asked to see it and I asked him if he wanted to get it out or did he want me to get it, because it was definitely loaded. He told me to get it. As I carefully handed it to him he said, "Damn, that's a 44!" (Charter Arms Bulldog 44 spl) I guess he was just curious because he handed it back and told me to slow it down a little. Bless his heart! 0 -
....Its always best to lean way over to the passenger side of the truck seat, move around a lot and look as if you are trying to get soemrthing out from under the seat...[^]
...There are set regs for what to do when stopped here in Texas if your a CHL holder...and they frown on you if you don't abide by them...[;)]
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