Why the NRA will never fully support 2A
The NRA wasn't founded to protect your gun rights. It was founded to improve marksmanship among army recruits, in the words of co-founder William C. Church, by "promoting the shooting sports". Its legislative component was formed as an afterthought, and didn't even begin lobbying until the 1970s.
This organization represents the lowest common denominator of gun-owners, that is, the hunter and the sport-shooter. It is not, was not, and never will be an organization to defend the second amendment as it was written. If you believe in the words of the second amendment, and want progress made to restore our laws to they way they were pre-1934, theres no point in joining the NRA. It's wasted money. The NRA will only support the second-amendment as far as the "shooting sports" are concerned.
This organization represents the lowest common denominator of gun-owners, that is, the hunter and the sport-shooter. It is not, was not, and never will be an organization to defend the second amendment as it was written. If you believe in the words of the second amendment, and want progress made to restore our laws to they way they were pre-1934, theres no point in joining the NRA. It's wasted money. The NRA will only support the second-amendment as far as the "shooting sports" are concerned.
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quote:Originally posted by MosinNagantDisciple
The NRA wasn't founded to protect your gun rights. It was founded to improve marksmanship among army recruits, in the words of co-founder William C. Church, by "promoting the shooting sports". Its legislative component was formed as an afterthought, and didn't even begin lobbying until the 1970s.
This organization represents the lowest common denominator of gun-owners, that is, the hunter and the sport-shooter. It is not, was not, and never will be an organization to defend the second amendment as it was written. If you believe in the words of the second amendment, and want progress made to restore our laws to they way they were pre-1934, theres no point in joining the NRA. It's wasted money. The NRA will only support the second-amendment as far as the "shooting sports" are concerned.
True statement.
The NRA has however, stepped into the "gun-rights" arena as far back as the 1930's with their support of banning full auto firearms and the National Firearms Act. Things like this anti-constitution, pro gun-control stance kept right on being a part of the NRA play book. They have not ceased these actions, with the exception of a short "coup" in the 70's, which was quickly quelled.
However, the NRA has set itself up to be America's staunch defender of the Second Amendment. They profess to be so and many in America believe that they are.
Therein lays the danger.
The NRA clearly supports and defends a different Amendment II than that enumerated in the US Constitution's Bill of Rights. You are correct in that the NRA supports "sporting purpose" gun ownership, target shooting, recreational and competition shooting, hunting and government regulated self defense.
The NRA does NOT support the Amendment II that recognizes the right of American Citizens to own, purchase, carry or use the same type of personal firearms as modern military forces use. Nor do they support and defend the bedrock reason for Amendment II, that is as a defense against foreign or domestic tyranny and/or to replace a rouge government.0 -
GOVERNMENT REGULATED self defence. 0 -
So, from your elevated position above all the politics and seeing only black and white; which "gun rights group" would you say has a better chance of repealing all those nasty laws, removing all those gun-grabbing politicians, wiping out all those Klinton import bans, and returning the country to the pure meaning of the 2nd Amendment?
Oh yeah, and has more than a coupla members and the money to let everyone know what's going on?0 -
quote:Originally posted by gunnut505
So, which "gun rights group" would you say has a better chance of repealing all those nasty laws,
My kid could start an organization this morning that stands a better chance of repealing any gun laws than your NRA.0 -
In my opinion... They are fat bubba's who only want Guns so they can lord them over the rest of us. 0 -
To all of you NRA bashers, Just what the hell do you do to support 2nd amendment rights? From what I see, nothing but running your mouths putting down the efforts of others. Why don't you answer the man's question? What organizations do you recommend? Are there any that you support with time and money? Mosin, I think your remark about the lowest common denominator is a real slam against hunters and sport shooters. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by 25-06
To all of you NRA bashers, Just what the hell do you do to support 2nd amendment rights? From what I see, nothing but running your mouths putting down the efforts of others. Why don't you answer the man's question? What organizations do you recommend? Are there any that you support with time and money? Mosin, I think your remark about the lowest common denominator is a real slam against hunters and sport shooters.
What the hell do I do to support second amendment rights? I keep and bear arms. What the hell do you do? I also happen to belong to the GOA, but I DO NOT have to belong to ANY group/club/organization to deserve second amendment rights, contrary to what some of you think.0 -
quote:Originally posted by MT357
quote:Originally posted by 25-06
To all of you NRA bashers, Just what the hell do you do to support 2nd amendment rights? From what I see, nothing but running your mouths putting down the efforts of others. Why don't you answer the man's question? What organizations do you recommend? Are there any that you support with time and money? Mosin, I think your remark about the lowest common denominator is a real slam against hunters and sport shooters.
What the hell do I do to support second amendment rights? I keep and bear arms. What the hell do you do? I also happen to belong to the GOA, but I DO NOT have to belong to ANY group/club/organization to deserve second amendment rights, contrary to what some of you think.
+1
can anyone provide a link to where the nra actually helped the second amendment, proof that they first handed stopped a gun control bill from passing?
or am i just supposed to feel comfort in their lobbying, and secretly paying off politicians to compromise a law "that could have been worse"0 -
quote:Originally posted by MosinNagantDisciple
The NRA wasn't founded to protect your gun rights. It was founded to improve marksmanship among army recruits, in the words of co-founder William C. Church, by "promoting the shooting sports". Its legislative component was formed as an afterthought, and didn't even begin lobbying until the 1970s.
This organization represents the lowest common denominator of gun-owners, that is, the hunter and the sport-shooter. It is not, was not, and never will be an organization to defend the second amendment as it was written. If you believe in the words of the second amendment, and want progress made to restore our laws to they way they were pre-1934, theres no point in joining the NRA. It's wasted money. The NRA will only support the second-amendment as far as the "shooting sports" are concerned.
Yet another foolish criticism about the NRA. I have first hand knowledge that one of the main and only reasons we now have CCW in KS & Mo is because of the actions of the NRA. Do you consider CCW to be part of the "shooting Sports" or part of supporting the 2A?
In addition, we gun people have an extreme shortage of friends. That means that we cannot so quickly and casually write off an organization that is our friend. This means that even if it were true that the NRA only support the "shooting sports" then even with such limited gun rights support they are still overall helping with gun rights and with the 2A. So if it is true that the NRA is offering limited gun rights support, let them keep providing that support and let us continue to provide our support to the NRA. For God's sake it only costs $25.00-$35.00 per year to provide that support. That is cheap insurance to help keep another of the few pro-gun rights organizations alive. And if we need additional support, let's join and support other pro-gun rights organizations.
Only idiots think they have to support only one pro-gun rights organizations.0 -
quote:I have first hand knowledge that one of the main and only reasons we now have CCW in KS & Mo is because of the actions of the NRA. Do you consider CCW to be part of the "shooting Sports" or part of supporting the 2A?
You have had it for 231 years via #2 on the Bill of Rights. But now you have conceded that it must be "approved" by the government, so it is no longer a right, but a privelege.
Privelege: a special or peculiar benefit,favor, or advantage.
Right: A just and proper claim or title to anything.0 -
quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
quote:I have first hand knowledge that one of the main and only reasons we now have CCW in KS & Mo is because of the actions of the NRA. Do you consider CCW to be part of the "shooting Sports" or part of supporting the 2A?
You have had it for 231 years via #2 on the Bill of Rights. But now you have conceded that it must be "approved" by the government, so it is no longer a right, but a privelege.
Privelege: a special or peculiar benefit,favor, or advantage.
Right: A just and proper claim or title to anything.
quote:For God's sake it only costs $25.00-$35.00 per year to provide that support.
Supporting the degradation of what you claim to defend??? Please stop "helping" us.0 -
quote:Originally posted by gunnut505
So, from your elevated position above all the politics and seeing only black and white; which "gun rights group" would you say has a better chance of repealing all those nasty laws, removing all those gun-grabbing politicians, wiping out all those Klinton import bans, and returning the country to the pure meaning of the 2nd Amendment?
Oh yeah, and has more than a coupla members and the money to let everyone know what's going on?
As to an "elevated position above all the politics". Let me try my simple explanation of what integrity is. How about doing the right thing, for the right reasons, even when doing so may be difficult or damaging?
One does not "compromise" away, "back room deal" away, "lie" away, "facilitate" away, or otherwise erode one of the US Constitution's Bill of Rights, period. At least not if you have integrity that is.
Maybe I was raised wrong. Maybe all that stuff taught and drilled into me when I was growing up was just bullsnit. You know, the stuff about America's founding documents and its Bill of Rights being the law of the land and inviolate, the concept of fundamental rights that were enumerated in the Bill of Rights and were put there EXPRESSLY to restrict government, you know, all that old crap that we can now conveniently erode and ignore.
In my life with my family, friends, military service, service as a peace officer etc, I was taught to do what is right, because it is right and to not compromise my principals, ethics, values or my integrity. Seems that this is an archaic concept in todays America by the "rationalization and justification arguments" that continually get blathered by the "support the NRA no matter what" crowd. It is provably an archaic concept within the NRA.
First point in red. Certainly not the NRA. They do not attempt to repeal anything, only come to more insideous agreements with the government for added government regulation of firearms, period.
Second point in green. Do some research for gods sake. NRA routinely places A ratings on openly anti-gun politicians, or fail to promote the record of certain very pro-gun politicians who are running. They are famous for either highly rating some anti-gun morons, or taking a "no-position" position in certain races where there is a clear pro-gun candidate in the race. Often this achieves the deliberate result of the anti being elected.
Back room deals, treachery, compromise and carefully managed and coordinated actions designed to fool American gun owners. All the stuff that the NRA is best at. NRA puts their "rating system" out to America, where stupid voters routinely and blindly vote the NRA's recommendation.
Third point in orange. What is the NRA doing in this area. Seems to me they participated to some extent in passing bans on certain imported ammo and stood aside on other import issues.
Fourth point in brown. Whatever group is going to return America to the true meaning of Amendment II, it is NOT going to be the NRA. They support "Shooting sports", "hunting issues", "competition shooting", and "GOVERNMENT REGULATED self defense". They do NOT support anything approaching the "true meaning" of Amendment II. Anyone trying to say that they do is provably an idiot, or a shill for the NRA.
Last point in bold and underlined. This is the crux of the issue, too many ignorant gun-owners, thinking that they are "fighting the good fight" by belonging to the NRA, when the NRA is slowly coordinating the erosing of Amendment II all the while.
If every NRA member would either walk from this insidious organization, or stay with them, but join another group with a "no-compromise" position, then groups like the GOA, JPFO, or others would have some numbers and sufficient money behind them to actually do some good, rather than telling everyone they are doing some good.0 -
quote:Originally posted by 25-06
To all of you NRA bashers, Just what the hell do you do to support 2nd amendment rights? From what I see, nothing but running your mouths putting down the efforts of others. Why don't you answer the man's question? What organizations do you recommend? Are there any that you support with time and money? Mosin, I think your remark about the lowest common denominator is a real slam against hunters and sport shooters.
It is obviously difficult for some to get past the "red haze of rage" that comes over them when someone attempts to interject some truth about NRA actions. If one were to actually read some of the "weightier" posts that are critical of the NRA, one would clearly and repeatedly find a number of references to other "gun rights" organizations.0 -
quote:Originally posted by MT357
quote:Originally posted by 25-06
To all of you NRA bashers, Just what the hell do you do to support 2nd amendment rights? From what I see, nothing but running your mouths putting down the efforts of others. Why don't you answer the man's question? What organizations do you recommend? Are there any that you support with time and money? Mosin, I think your remark about the lowest common denominator is a real slam against hunters and sport shooters.
What the hell do I do to support second amendment rights? I keep and bear arms. What the hell do you do? I also happen to belong to the GOA, but I DO NOT have to belong to ANY group/club/organization to deserve second amendment rights, contrary to what some of you think.
+10 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by MosinNagantDisciple
The NRA wasn't founded to protect your gun rights. It was founded to improve marksmanship among army recruits, in the words of co-founder William C. Church, by "promoting the shooting sports". Its legislative component was formed as an afterthought, and didn't even begin lobbying until the 1970s.
This organization represents the lowest common denominator of gun-owners, that is, the hunter and the sport-shooter. It is not, was not, and never will be an organization to defend the second amendment as it was written. If you believe in the words of the second amendment, and want progress made to restore our laws to they way they were pre-1934, theres no point in joining the NRA. It's wasted money. The NRA will only support the second-amendment as far as the "shooting sports" are concerned.
Yet another foolish criticism about the NRA. I have first hand knowledge that one of the main and only reasons we now have CCW in KS & Mo is because of the actions of the NRA. Do you consider CCW to be part of the "shooting Sports" or part of supporting the 2A?
In addition, we gun people have an extreme shortage of friends. That means that we cannot so quickly and casually write off an organization that is our friend. This means that even if it were true that the NRA only support the "shooting sports" then even with such limited gun rights support they are still overall helping with gun rights and with the 2A. So if it is true that the NRA is offering limited gun rights support, let them keep providing that support and let us continue to provide our support to the NRA. For God's sake it only costs $25.00-$35.00 per year to provide that support. That is cheap insurance to help keep another of the few pro-gun rights organizations alive. And if we need additional support, let's join and support other pro-gun rights organizations.
Only idiots think they have to support only one pro-gun rights organizations.
Ok Tr, lets go over this one more time.
The NRA supports a different Second Amendment than that found in the US Constitution's Bill of Rights.
The NRA version is all about shooting sports, competition shooting, hunting issues, range development, hunter/shooter education, youth education and GOVERNMENT REGULATED SELF DEFENSE.
They do an excellent job in almost all of those areas. The problem is that the NRA deliberately coordinates increased GOVERNMENT REGULATION on all things firearm, period.
Your precious CCW issue is one of the most insidious and dangerous to the real Amendment II actions that could EVER be taken. Yes it is good that people can carry firearms in defense of themselves. Yes I wish more people would get into the "gun culture".
The PROBLEM TR, is that by accepting the GOVERNMENT'S AUTHORITY TO REGULATE, we concede them that power, DIRECTLY in contradiction of Amendment II.
Tr, it is like losing your virginity. Once it is gone, you can't get it back. Get it?0
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