Question for anti- abortion people
First let me state right off that I find abortion to be an abomination; it is an act of a person who refuses to accept consequences for her actions and is looking for an easy out (99% of the time anyhow). I also think that it destroys a life.
Buuuuuttt....
If life begins at conception, there is a BIG problem. Nature has let billions die.
Not every fertilized egg implants.
Ergo, millions of lives are snuffed out each year when a fertilized egg fails to implant and just gets menstruated out or otherwise dies. The same folks who are so keen to point out that God imparts a soul at conception seem to have missed this; if the soul is present, then it is life and it is dying (unbaptized I might add).
How to recitfy this dichotomy? Are we to assume that a loving God is saying that some life is unworthy? What of miscarriages then?
All very troubling and confusing, if I do say so.
Buuuuuttt....
If life begins at conception, there is a BIG problem. Nature has let billions die.
Not every fertilized egg implants.
Ergo, millions of lives are snuffed out each year when a fertilized egg fails to implant and just gets menstruated out or otherwise dies. The same folks who are so keen to point out that God imparts a soul at conception seem to have missed this; if the soul is present, then it is life and it is dying (unbaptized I might add).
How to recitfy this dichotomy? Are we to assume that a loving God is saying that some life is unworthy? What of miscarriages then?
All very troubling and confusing, if I do say so.
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Problem with adoption in the USA is all the red tape, the time involved, and 99% who do adopt want a baby and not some older child.
There are some 500,ooo children in the foster care program which is paid by for the Gubment to the tune of billions of dollars.
Here are some stats on the subject: If attention is paid to the various numbers one finds out a lot..[:(]
The AFCARS Report
Preliminary FY 2005 Estimates as of September 2006 (13)
SOURCE: Adoption and Foster Care Analysis and Reporting System (AFCARS) data submitted for the FY 2005, 10/1/04 through 9/30/05.
NOTES:Data from both the regular and revised submissions received by September 2006 are included in the information below. Missing data are not used in the calculation of percentages. Percentages in some tables may not total 100% due to rounding.
How many children were in foster care on September 30, 2005? 513,000
What were the ages of the children in foster care?
Mean Years
10.0
Median Years
10.6
Less than 1 Year
6%
29,034
1 Year
6%
32,439
2 Years
6%
29,580
3 Years
5%
26,552
4 Years
5%
24,558
5 Years
4%
22,405
6 Years
4%
21,521
7 Years
4%
20,687
8 Years
4%
19,717
9 Years
4%
19,375
10 Years
4%
19,488
11 Years
4%
20,693
12 Years
5%
23,570
13 Years
5%
27,081
14 Years
6%
33,002
15 Years
8%
38,589
16 Years
8%
41,695
17 Years
8%
39,018
18 Years
3%
14,007
19 Years
1%
5,963
20 Years
1%
4,027
What were the lengths of stay in foster care?
Mean Months
28.6
Median Months
15.5
Less than 1 Month
5%
26,302
1 to 5 Months
20%
100,275
6 to 11 Months
17%
89,460
12 to 17 Months
12%
63,885
18 to 23 Months
9%
45,912
24 to 29 Months
7%
34,928
30 to 35 Months
5%
24,302
3 to 4 Years
11%
58,341
5 Years or More
14%
69,595
What were the placement settings of children in foster care?
Pre-Adoptive Home
4%
18,691
Foster Family Home (Relative)
24%
124,153
Foster Family Home (Non-Relative)
46%
236,775
Group Home
8%
43,440
Institution
10%
51,210
Supervised Independent Living
1%
5,918
Runaway
2%
10,930
Trial Home Visit
4%
21,883
What were the case goals of the children in foster care?
Reunify with Parent(s) or Principal Caretaker(s)
51%
262,706
Live with Other Relative(s)
4%
21,722
Adoption
20%
100,949
Long Term Foster Care
7%
37,628
Emancipation
6%
31,938
Guardianship
3%
15,653
Case Plan Goal Not Yet Established
8%
42,403
What was the gender of the children in foster care?
Male
52%
269,036
Female
48%
243,964
What was the race/ethnicity of the children in foster care?
AI/AN-Non Hispanic
2%
10,617
Asian-Non Hispanic
1%
2,973
Black -Non Hispanic
32%
166,482
Hawaiian/ PI-Non Hispanic
0%
1,433
Hispanic
18%
93,996
White-Non Hispanic
41%
208,537
Unknown/Unable to Determine
2%
11,771
Two or More-Non Hispanic
3%
17,1910 -
quote:Originally posted by Bshooter
sav99
You are right, be a man and stand up to your responsibilities. I was not speaking from experience. As you know, there are a lot of "men" who do not accept responsibility, but why make the female suffer? Just my thoughts. Bshooter
She's just as guilty...0 -
Its not for us to judge or figure out, Its wrong and we all know it. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by jonk
First let me state right off that I find abortion to be an abomination; it is an act of a person who refuses to accept consequences for her actions and is looking for an easy out (99% of the time anyhow). I also think that it destroys a life.
Buuuuuttt....
If life begins at conception, there is a BIG problem. Nature has let billions die.
Not every fertilized egg implants.
Ergo, millions of lives are snuffed out each year when a fertilized egg fails to implant and just gets menstruated out or otherwise dies. The same folks who are so keen to point out that God imparts a soul at conception seem to have missed this; if the soul is present, then it is life and it is dying (unbaptized I might add).
How to recitfy this dichotomy? Are we to assume that a loving God is saying that some life is unworthy? What of miscarriages then?
All very troubling and confusing, if I do say so.
I respectfully disagree with the line in red. That statement places the blame for rape by some scumbag or incest courtesy of dear old horny dad or big perverted brother squarely upon the woman herself, thereby excusing the damage done by these miscreant male lowlifes.
Convenient perhaps, but hardly accurate or just. While the ne're-do-wells- with these uncontrollable urges go merrily on their way to do it again and again, the woman has the "privilege" of carrying, birthing and raising an unwanted child - and one that is possibly mentally deficient if conceived out of incest - all on her own. We won't even talk about the implications that arise out of racial differences between the rapist and the woman.
IMO, there is a big difference between abortion because of promiscuity or a cavalier attitude towards responsible sex and abortion performed out of necessity. As I and many others see it, it is not a cut-and-dried situation as suggested.0 -
Don't have any statistics to go by, and neither am I an expert on the topics relating to abortion, but I reckon that most of the women who have abortions are neither victims of rape nor incest. It is a matter of making a poor decision to kill a baby because the parents made a poor decision to act in a way that would cause that baby to come about. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by DieHard4
Don't have any statistics to go by, and neither am I an expert on the topics relating to abortion, but I reckon that most of the women who have abortions are neither victims of rape nor incest. It is a matter of making a poor decision to kill a baby because the parents made a poor decision to act in a way that would cause that baby to come about.
I speak only to abortion because of rape and incest here.
I will not sit in judgement of another because of statistics which, like mostly everything else in life, can be skewed to suit either side of the argument, pro or anti. It's simply too easy to be swayed by what many will offer as "the numbers" in lieu of actual facts. Many women who have actually been raped refuse to prosecute their rapist because of public shame, their family's ostracizing, etc.
Abortion remains, IMO, an extraordinarily difficult and heartwrenching decision that a woman who has been raped or abused must make, hopefully in good conscience, and subsequently live with for the rest of her life.
My opinion here is not a broadbased endorsement. But the issue itself is not black and white as the gray area between the two is enormous.0 -
What I refer to as abortion is basically a lazy form of birth control, and I see it as wrong. A life is a life, especially an inocent one. When it is truly needed as a medical practice, I do not see it as abortion. This is rare though. As to rape, and incest, I see them as one in the same. Though I do agree in the case of rape, that the child is still inocent, I can understand that a woman would not want to carry to term and give birth to the baby of a man that raped her. I'm not saying that its right, I"m saying I understand that. 0 -
This subject came up here before and I posted my opinion.
Right now, all I can say is it is really great to see all of you that stand up to defend an innocent child. That is what we as responsible adults should do. Stand up for those that can't stand up for themselves. I thank you and pray for you.
My son was one of about 100,000 children that travelled to Washington DC this past month to stand on the steps of our Nation's Capitol to protest this atrocity we call abortion.
I am very proud of him to have taken this step. He is the same one I bragged about his wrestling accomplishments to you folks. Kids do wonderful things if given the chance. My younger son is working on his acting career. He is in his 3rd play next weekend. He also plays sports and wrestles as well as tap dance, other dance, act and sing. I just now got home from Battle Creek, Michigan where my older son competed in the state finals for team wrestling. His team was one of 8 in his whole division that went to state. They won the local, tri-valley conference, districts and regionals to get to go to the state. Unfortunately, they were eliminated in the finals today (single elimination) but he placed 2nd (all conference) and he is only a freshman. He has 3 more years to try and his team was about 75% freshmen. They should have a great future. My younger son took 6th place in his tri-valley conference (7th grade). He should have a bright future as well.
Amazing things can happen if you let these kids grow up!
As for all of you that think that it is OK to kill these innocents-I pray God will have mercy on your soul- you're probably going to need it.0 -
Who gives a person the right to judge how another person runs their life? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Bshooter
sav99
You are right, be a man and stand up to your responsibilities. I was not speaking from experience. As you know, there are a lot of "men" who do not accept responsibility, but why make the female suffer? Just my thoughts. Bshooter
Because it takes two to tango.
What separates man from animals is the fact that we're rational, thinking creatures. We can discern right from wrong, and we have the ability to overcome our natural desires.0 -
quote:Originally posted by BlackRoses
Who gives a person the right to judge how another person runs their life?
We do it every day and it is sanctioned by the government. See CRIMINAL and CIVIL law.0 -
No one should have the right to tell a woman.....any woman that she can`t have an abortion. It`s also her desision what car she drives and what guns she can own. Another persons religious beliefs shouldn`t enter into the picture. 0 -
soopershot
Senior Member
1696 Posts
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 07:19:20 AM
No one should have the right to tell a woman.....any woman that she can`t have an abortion. It`s also her desision what car she drives and what guns she can own. Another persons religious beliefs shouldn`t enter into the picture.
My thoughts also.....It should be her decision ultimately.0 -
you know, whenever the abortion question is asked here, the hipocrits(sp) come out of the woodwork.
Ok, you want to "save the babies". Fine. It's still a somewhat free country. So you call yourselves "pro-life".
How do feel about the death penalty??
A TRUE pro-lifer is against ANY form of taking human life, be it by the legal choice of a woman and her doctor, or the legal system of a State of the Federal Gov't.
I know people in the local Right to Life chapter, and thats how they feel. I don't agree with them, but I respect them. They are consistant with their beliefs.
Now, I don't think I have heard ANYONE her at GB speak out against the death penalty, and if any of you did, you are in the miniscule minority. Most here are of the "hang 'em high" vigilante variety.
At least I am consistant, too. I am pro-abortion, and pro-death penalty. "Pro-death" if you will.
I think abortion sucks, but it needs to be there. Rape and incest, yes. But there are more reasons.I had a friend years ago who was in an abusive relationship. Her boyfriend was a POS. I told her many time to get out, get help. She "loved" him. Well she found out she was pregnant. I think she realized what life would be with the POS as a father. She made the decision to have an abortion. Never told him. Finally, after being a punching bag one too many times, she left, and finally found a guy who treated her right. They eventually got married, and they have a daughter. Did she ever tell her husband about the abortion? I don't know, but I know this guy, and I don't think it would matter to him. That was her past, before him.
All you religious and pious types need to reflect that even if you think it's wrong for you, it may not be wrong for someone else.0 -
A comment here. Not a gauntlet.
Throughout the centuries and even to this day, both the righteous and scurrilous men of the world have instructed the older women in their families to "take care of such problems", i.e. make them go away.
And, with various types of interventions - some brutal, most unsanitary - the problem for the young woman was subsequently "fixed", even if she developed septicemia, peritonitis, a staph infection, could no longer bear children or eventually bled to death as a result.
FWIW and to those who believe in God, the God to whom I pray has not - to the best of my knowledge - appointed anyone here on earth to sit in judgement of His children. Each of us will learn our respective fate when we are called to stand before Him. So, I try to respect every person's right to live their own life as they choose.0 -
quote:Originally posted by eboydell
If you think that I am going to spend one dollar on some "kid" that I do not want, nor care for, then you are sadly mistaken. All of my extra money either goes to guns , cars, or other toys that I desire. If the girl wants the "kid",LET HER RAISE IT! As far as all of this foolishness as to when life begins...well we kill enough real people everyday in some form or fashion to more than make up for some abortions. So grow up...life usually sucks; stop crying for the "unborn"!
What a piece o work you are.0 -
quote:Originally posted by PBJloaf
you know, whenever the abortion question is asked here, the hipocrits(sp) come out of the woodwork.
Ok, you want to "save the babies". Fine. It's still a somewhat free country. So you call yourselves "pro-life".
How do feel about the death penalty??
A TRUE pro-lifer is against ANY form of taking human life, be it by the legal choice of a woman and her doctor, or the legal system of a State of the Federal Gov't.
I know people in the local Right to Life chapter, and thats how they feel. I don't agree with them, but I respect them. They are consistant with their beliefs.
Now, I don't think I have heard ANYONE her at GB speak out against the death penalty, and if any of you did, you are in the miniscule minority. Most here are of the "hang 'em high" vigilante variety.
At least I am consistant, too. I am pro-abortion, and pro-death penalty. "Pro-death" if you will.
I think abortion sucks, but it needs to be there. Rape and incest, yes. But there are more reasons.I had a friend years ago who was in an abusive relationship. Her boyfriend was a POS. I told her many time to get out, get help. She "loved" him. Well she found out she was pregnant. I think she realized what life would be with the POS as a father. She made the decision to have an abortion. Never told him. Finally, after being a punching bag one too many times, she left, and finally found a guy who treated her right. They eventually got married, and they have a daughter. Did she ever tell her husband about the abortion? I don't know, but I know this guy, and I don't think it would matter to him. That was her past, before him.
All you religious and pious types need to reflect that even if you think it's wrong for you, it may not be wrong for someone else.
You won't find me to be a hypocrite, because I don't claim to be pro-life. I'm anti-abortion, and there's a difference. I've never called myself pro-life and when someone accuses me of being pro-life, I correct them.
I support the death penalty. The difference exists that babies in the womb are 100% innocent life, and it is an abomination that we allow mothers to kill that innocent life.
The state has the right to execute people for crimes against society and persons. Capital punishment, in fact, is commanded in the Bible.
So, before you start throwing around the term "hypocrite" perhaps it would be wise to consider what you're saying.0 -
If people spent a tenth of the time they spend talking about abortion and how bad it is looking at all the other sin, sloth, and disregard of biblical teachings in their lives, this world would be a much better place. But that would require personal introspection and change, instead of just sitting there and talking about the sins of others. 0 -
The word "hypocrite" is one of the most misunderstood and most widely misused words in the English language. A hypocrite is simply a person who professes on thing and practices another. For example, if Dianne Feinstein carried a concealed handgun, that would be hypocritical.
I don't understand the convoluted logic which leads to the conclusion that anybody who is anti-abortion should also be anti-capital punishment to avoid being a hypocrite. In fact most people who are pro-abortion are anti-capital punishment and vice versa.
I don't know what this means, but I have noticed that most people who try to draw a parallel between abortion and capitol punishment are the people who think there is something wrong with capital punishment.0 -
I don't necessarily support the death penalty either.
However, those on death row get numerous appeals and delays. And the great majority of them are not the least bit innocent. And they can speak for themselves, also.
Many people that are "for abortion" also seem to be against the death penalty. Seems a little skewed to me. They vote to allow those guilty of heinous crimes to live and yet vote to kill innocents that can't speak for themselves yet.
How many of the people that are outraged about the six million Jewish people killed by Hitler, yet condone the killing of millions of innocents every year by abortions. We should all do whatever we can to stop any of these kind of atrocities.
In Michigan, we don't have the death penalty, but I would be able to stomach that much easier than I could an abortion.
I think the great majority of abortions are done when young girls get pregnant and then secretly sneek off and have an abortion so their parents wouldn't find out. All they can think about is "Dad (or Mom) is gonna kill me if they find out" so they have an abortion without thinking about what the long term effects to their own health and sanity are. I am embarassed to say that I might have encouraged the same if I had ever got a girl pregnant when I was a teenager.
But now that I have become a more mature adult, I realize that the risks of an abortion are probably much more real than the risk of a ticked off (usually temporarily) parent and a full term pregnancy, both mentally and physically. The great majority of parents turned grandparents early are still just as thrilled and excited to watch their grandchildren grow up and get to spoil them and would be terrified to know that their daughter had undertaken the risk of an abortion merely to keep them from being upset. As I commented in an earlier post, although there are risks in everything, pregnancy is natural, abortion is not. This is another solid reason to require that parents be notified before a teenager is allowed to have an abortion, the parent with his or hers much more vast life experience and knowledge to help guide the youth. And a parent has already experienced childbirth and knows what to expect. This along with the genuine concern for the health of their own child instead of a doctor with money on his mind or a "family planner" with a hidden agenda.
Being Catholic, I also believe that even if you have had an abortion, you can still be forgiven as long as you are genuinely sorry for your act, so there is hope yet for those who have made this terrible mistake in judgement.
Sorry for the long winded response, but I feel compelled to protect those children in any way I can and if there is even a chance that I may get a chance to change someones mind about this horrible act, this lengthy response will have been well worth it.0 -
Silly topic,
Simple Abortion should be allowed in cases of rape, or where the mother will be damaged by the delivery. All other abortion may indeed be murder but up to me know way. Let the parents decide. As for god killing babies because they dont go full term silly0 -
quote:We do it every day and it is sanctioned by the government. See CRIMINAL and CIVIL law
As soon as abortion becomes illegal, then we can take those who break the law to court and judge them....Up to now, abortion is legal and is nothing more than a public moral issue and there is no one in this forum, including myself, qualified to pass moral judgement on anyone..0
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