Skip to main content
Help Center Community Shop

Strategy in Iraq vs. WWII....

Colt Super
"The core of Franklin Roosevelt's military genius lay in these simple rules: to pick generals and admirals with care; to leave strategy and tactics to them, and attend only to the politics of the war; never to interfere in operations; never to relieve leaders who encountered honorable reverses; and to allow all the glory to those who won
victories. When Roosevelt died, his supreme command in the field was virtually the original team. This steadiness paid dividends. Shake-ups in military command can cost much momentum, elan, and fighting effectiveness. The shuffling of generals by Hitler was our plague."
-Armand von Roon: World Holocaust
- from War and Remembrance by Herman Wouk

We have been fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan longer than we fought in World War Two.

Any thoughts ??

Doug
0

Comments

18 comments

Date Votes
  • Rockatansky
    quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson

    We have been fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan longer than we fought in World War Two.


    Why is that? We are still present in Germany and Japan, aren't we? (someone already said that today, I think)
    0
  • Colt Super
    We are there because 1) they want us there, and 2) we are not in combat there.

    I really don't think the Iraqis want us in their country.

    We are just the "lesser evil".

    Doug
    0
  • kristov
    US military strategy starts with the Commander and Chief and works it's way down through the ranks. FDR did not simply leave the fighting of the war to the generals, many of whom were not pleased that the war in Europe was going to be a priority over the fight against Japan. On the reverse there were a large number of leaders in the ETO who were down right shocked when FDR gave the Soviets a nearly free hand in Eastern Europe because they understood that this was just a future confrontation in the making. FDR's military team was indeed hand picked, often from more junior officers (like Ike) whom FDR favored over those higher on the seniority list. The team stayed mostly intact because they kept their mouths shut and followed orders. In just five short years Old Doug MacArthur would find out just what happens to a five star general who crosses his Commander and Chief and the policies coming from Washington DC.
    0
  • Colt Super
    I've read MacArthur's autobiography a couple of times, and it is amazing how often the word "I" can be used in a 700 page book.

    Doug
    0
  • Rockatansky
    quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
    We are there because 1) they want us there, and 2) we are not in combat there.

    I really don't think the Iraqis want us in their country.

    We are just the "lesser evil".

    Doug


    I agree, Doug, with all, but that Iraqis don't want us there. I don't think we'll ever find out what Iraqis really want. If my opinion matters at all, as much as I ... let's say not a fan of islam and most nations that came out of middle east, I think we shouldn't have been there to start with. But on a bigger scale, I simply don't have the information to make any assessment on the subject. I can't say that it's strategically feasible for us to be there, but again, not having the information of what talks happen behind closed doors between or among leaders of all countries participating, it's impossible to have a clear judgment on how it's being handled for achieving long term goals.
    0
  • Rockatansky
    quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
    I've read MacArthur's autobiography a couple of times, and it is amazing how often the word "I" can be used in a 700 page book.


    well, it is an autobiography after all [:D]
    0
  • Colt Super
    In mine, I only use "I" three times.

    However it's only half a page long.

    One NEVER knows the behind the scene machinations of any event.

    We all just cruise around in the fog, trying to listen closely for the sound of the semi that's bearing down on us.

    Doug
    0
  • Rockatansky
    quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson

    We all just cruise around in the fog, trying to listen closely for the sound of the semi that's bearing down on us.


    Exactly! And the way things are turning out to be lately and the way people are, I'd even go further and say -- ignore it all, do your thing, make as much money as you can and prepare for the worst.

    Anyways, we're all gonna be dead in 2037 when that big asteroid hits us, I just hope I can have myself a couple of stuffed mexicans before then.
    0
  • Colt Super
    12/21/12.

    The devil.

    Doug
    0
  • Rockatansky
    What happens on 12/21/12?

    There's this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99942_Apophis and another one. NASA has a good page on these guys. Of the last few predictions and calculations, I drew a conclusion that it's a 50/50 chance [:D]
    0
  • joeaf1911a1
    Doug: No similarity between now in Iraq and WW 2. In WW 2 we went in and conquerered . (same as we did in the beginning}. In July 1945 we,
    yes I was part of it, had "opperation Tallyho". Where 163,000 troops
    searched every civilian type for papers, and each and every building in
    the U.S. occupation zone, including hospitals, churches, morturies, houses,and you name it. All weapons, illegial (U.S.) goods and the likes were consficated. It might seem harsh but it sure worked for our
    own good. No further problems. Many weapons were conficated, both civilian and Military, over 300 U.S. deserters were found, along with a minimal amount of black market goods. Dont know how this would work now, but nothing seems to be working as of now in Iraq.
    0
  • cce1302
    There's a few differences between WWII and Iraq. One is that we lost more servicemen in a matter of hours than we have in years in Iraq. For instance, the thousands killed on each Island in the pacific.

    They don't like us there much in Okinawa. They put up with us because we pump so much money into their economy. But every time something happens (an american rapes an okinawan girl, a helicopter lands), there's incredible outrage over it and there are protests and they clamor for us to leave. I don't know how things are in Germany. I've only been there on my way to and from Iraq and didn't get much of a chance to talk to people except to say "Guten Tag. Kaffee, bitte. Danke. Tchuss."
    0
  • select-fire
    What Political party were FDR and Truman.. You know the President's that won WWII ?
    0
  • Sigfan
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    There's a few differences between WWII and Iraq. One is that we lost more servicemen in a matter of hours than we have in years in Iraq. For instance, the thousands killed on each Island in the pacific.

    They don't like us there much in Okinawa. They put up with us because we pump so much money into their economy. But every time something happens (an american rapes an okinawan girl, a helicopter lands), there's incredible outrage over it and there are protests and they clamor for us to leave. I don't know how things are in Germany. I've only been there on my way to and from Iraq and didn't get much of a chance to talk to people except to say "Guten Tag. Kaffee, bitte. Danke. Tchuss."


    A lot of Koreans and Germans don't like us in their countries either.
    And comparing Iraq to WWII is a waste of time, just like the Dems who compare it to the Vietnam "quagmire", I bet there are lots of Vietnam vets on here who do not like saying it was a quagmire and that they lost.
    0
  • ElMuertoMonkey
    The problem with our war in Iraq is that the plan was dreamt up by think-tank numbskulls with a collective IQ hovering around room temperature and implemented by gutless yes-men who couldn't say no to a half-witted order if you spelled the word out for them in English. Retired generals can squawk all day long about how it was a bad plan and it caused this and did that, but at the end of the day, when all is said and done, they went ahead with it.

    That's not leadership or intelligence of any stripe last I looked.

    And that's the differece between then and now: then we had leaders, now we have simpering useless losers who can't point fingers fast enough in an attempt to deflect blame from themselves. I don't recall Patton or Eisnehower or Bradley ever saying, "They told me to, so it's not my fault!"

    But that's all you hear nowadays. Which just goes to prove that when you've got one eye looking over your shoulder you can't keep both on the task at hand.

    We declared victory, then we fought, and now we're trying to prepare... helluva a way to run a war if you ask me. But hey, at least the banner looked good on the aircraft carrier... it was worth an election from what I hear.
    0
  • Colt Super
    " What Political party were FDR and Truman.. You know the President's that won WWII ?"
    -select-fire

    I hardly think they would be invited into the democratic party, today. Especially Truman.

    Doug
    0
  • ElMuertoMonkey
    quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
    " What Political party were FDR and Truman.. You know the President's that won WWII ?"
    -select-fire

    I hardly think they would be invited into the democratic party, today. Especially Truman.

    Doug
    On the contrary, FDR would - he was a big time Big Government dude.

    Although I do find it rather curious that the only shooting wars Republicans win seem to be the tiny, itty-bitty ones against ten dudes with machetes...
    0
  • kristov
    quote:Originally posted by joeaf1911a1
    Doug: No similarity between now in Iraq and WW 2. In WW 2 we went in and conquerered . (same as we did in the beginning}. In July 1945 we,
    yes I was part of it, had "opperation Tallyho". Where 163,000 troops
    searched every civilian type for papers, and each and every building in
    the U.S. occupation zone, including hospitals, churches, morturies, houses,and you name it. All weapons, illegial (U.S.) goods and the likes were consficated. It might seem harsh but it sure worked for our
    own good. No further problems. Many weapons were conficated, both civilian and Military, over 300 U.S. deserters were found, along with a minimal amount of black market goods. Dont know how this would work now, but nothing seems to be working as of now in Iraq.


    Joe, you are wealth of WWII period information. I had read about operation Tallyho, but only as a part of a plan to locate suspected war criminals who were in hiding among the civilian population. Since it is nearly impossible to find someone who does not want to be found, especially if they are inside their native country and have the support of friends, the only way to locate them is to go into every nook, cranny and dark closet in order to flush them out...Or drag them out. On the flip side I'll bet that those 300 US deserters were pretty darned surprised when you kicked in the door, tossed them out into the street and into the hands of the MPs! Using your numbers (which we have no reason in the world to doubt since you were there) it took 163,000 troops to accomplish that mission. There are currently slightly less than that same number of troops in all of Iraq so in order to do the same thing, and still be able to have forces available for security purposes, we would need a lot more troops sent to Iraq and the way the wind is blowing that is not going to happen. I'd like to add that while you and I often disagree I respect you and admire your service during the war. My regret is that a politics made it impossible for you to liberate Eastern Europe, and my mother in Poland, who was left to fall into the hands of the Soviets.
    0

Please sign in to leave a comment.

Recent Activity