What is it about guns?
Firearms as tools for hunting and defense speaks to their heuristic value, certainly, but wholly misses the aesthetic and psychological, which, judging by the number of guns sold vs game tags issued and reported incidents of armed homeowners actually foiling intruders each year, would indicate that use of firearms for stated purpose is a far second to their imagined use, i.e., what they uniquely represent and engender on a very personal level. An H&R Topper and Winchester 21 likely will get done the purpose for which they are designed, as will either a Ford or Ferrari. But what is it about the sound of a 275GTB long-nose or the fit and finish of an old Winchester double that incites imagination and lust far beyond utility and mere assemblage of parts? To me, holding a Colt Model 1911 is a connection to Sergeant York and Belleau Wood and Manila John Basilone, a conversation over cigars with John Moses Browning, a renewed love for my country and a host of other reveries and emotions that certainly cannot be the result of my punching holes in paper with it on a Sunday afternoon. In a sense, guns stand to my daydreams as Walter Mitty's "pocketa-pocket-pocketa" stood to his.
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Guns are for killing Godless Commies, 
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"Got verbage" 0 -
quote:Originally posted by whiteclouder
I probably wouldn't have used the word 'heuristic'.
Clouder..
I damn well know I wouldn't have. Don0 -
I am trying to think of a way to use heuristic in a sentence but being my newest new word I really am having a hard time figuring out what to do with it[}:)] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by whiteclouder
...I probably wouldn't have used the word 'heuristic'.
Clouder..
But Wally, heuristic is an apposite and felicitous counterpart of my gestalt. It would be one thing, say, for you to correct Keats in On First Looking Into Chapman's Homer for having attributed discovery of the Pacific to Cortez rather than Balboa, and quite another to suggest that I evidence a similar lack of judgment by sacrificing consideration of audience for poetic effect. I am so upset by this that I fear I will not be sending the tea cozy I have been knitting you since before Christmas, nor the photos I promised of bobski face down and naked on a rubber sheet with Gary Coleman. Apparently retirement has done little to diminish your compulsive need for whining, no doubt an unfortunate byproduct of your long and unremarkable Air Force career spinning a sling psychrometer.0 -
quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
heuristic is an apposite and felicitous counterpart of my gestalt.
I knew it was sexual. Don0 -
I hate to agree with him, but yes heuristic is entirely appropriate and perhaps the best word to use describing the engineering marvel of John Browning. When I spent time troubleshooting my Remington 241, a John Browning design, the more I cleaned it, focused on the purpose of each individual part and tried to understand why it jams, the more I understood how the rifle worked. My appreciation for John Browning being a genius grew.
Yes, it was the right word to use, but I don't think that was the true point the writer was trying to make.0 -
I guess I need to get out more often ( on the puter that is ).
Thought someone had dredged up an old DWS post but then I saw the date , read the post and still did a double take on the date .
Must say I didn't know you had returned , at least to posting again .
Good to see you again Rob ,
SxS
Now imagination is a wonderful thing . It can transport you to a different time or place or both . Picking up an tool or watching an old movie takes me to a simpler time . Working on an old car makes me wonder what it would have been like to have lived in that age . Seeing a young beautiful girl might take me back to a time of my youth and my own conquests .
If only imagination paid the bills .......I'd be a rich man [^].0 -
I was just asking myself last week, "I wonder what DWS was doing during sabbatical from gb.com." Now we know. He took a community college english class. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by dcon12
quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
heuristic is an apposite and felicitous counterpart of my gestalt.
I knew it was sexual. Don
[:D][:D][:D]0 -
Interesting expository treatise, Rob, and you have taken the heuristic lesson beyond the limitations placed by Harold Hill's "think method" to something more inclusive than simple sensory perception.[:)]
I have missed your insight, knowledge, and wit and it is good to see you posting again.[:)]0 -
I can draw a tree, and I can even pretend to draw a person with a smile, but you would have to look closely, and be very forgiving, to say that you knew it was a person. The Mona Lisa is simply a woman with an abbreviated smile, but it is an expression of feeling and content that has soul.
I can write, I have a moderate vocabulary, and if you will allow me to bore you with economic or historical detail, facts, figures, and the interpretation of information, I can give you something to think about and even inform a few who might be willing to listen beyond their own preconceived prejudices. DWS, on the other hand, has soul when it comes to the use of language and knows how to use it to give feeling to the words, not just my sterile transfer of information.
I appreciate, demand, manipulate, and utilize facts and information, but I envy and stand in awe of those who, like my Dad, have learned the flavor of language. They are a breed apart who are appreciated by those who touch language and feared by those who only see it in others.0 -
hmmmm...nice. I kind of like that. Thanks DWS 0 -
Whatchutalkinboutwillis? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Slow_Hand
My response here does not speak to self defense which is another aspect altogether.
The overwhelming majority of gun owners and enthusiasts do NOT wish to harm another human being, destroy property or intimidate society as a whole. Same for hunters who as a whole treat their "kill" with a measure of reverence and act responsibily towards nature.
The exceptions are just that - exceptions - and those few ne'er-do-wells should always be dealt with separately and accordingly.
As for guns themselves, there is a definite intrigue and romance to holding, loading, aiming and firing these mechanical devices, even if only at a paper target or tin can.
Shooting is perhaps one of the few venues where an individual who is NOT athletic or youthful or physically strong or fully ambulatory or even physically fit can still be an active and avid participant.
A shooter can work at his or her own pace and enjoy tremendous personal inner satisfaction from being able to hit a target X number of feet or yards away, challenge himself or herself to do it from farther away or with more consistency, experiment with different ammunition, firearms, calibers, accessories, antiques, etc.
The maintenance and care that goes along with owning and shooting firearms is a small hobby for most. Many folks who cannot set their VCR are extraordinarily adept and proficient at disassembling, cleaning and reassembling their various firearms.
Discussions abound about all aspects of firearms and history gives us a wealth of firearms to look at and possibly even shoot.
So, for most, there is an inner satisfaction to be realized and enjoyed from firearms that goes well beyond self defense.
IMO.[:)]
Yeah! What he said!0 -
this long lineage of obtuse but reverential colloquialisms has induced a somnolence like state of apathy from which i can only weakly arouse to mutter "damm, this man should be a candidate for public office" ....P.S. please finish the tea cozy....manual dexterity is such a glorious gift 0 -
quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
quote:Originally posted by whiteclouder
...I probably wouldn't have used the word 'heuristic'.
Clouder..
But Wally, heuristic is an apposite and felicitous counterpart of my gestalt. It would be one thing, say, for you to correct Keats in On First Looking Into Chapman's Homer for having attributed discovery of the Pacific to Cortez rather than Balboa, and quite another to suggest that I evidence a similar lack of judgment by sacrificing consideration of audience for poetic effect. I am so upset by this that I fear I will not be sending the tea cozy I have been knitting you since before Christmas, nor the photos I promised of bobski face down and naked on a rubber sheet with Gary Coleman. Apparently retirement has done little to diminish your compulsive need for whining, no doubt an unfortunate byproduct of your long and unremarkable Air Force career spinning a sling psychrometer.
I didn't suggest that you couldn't or shouldn't use the word, I said I probably wouldn't. "Firearms as tools for hunting and defense speaks to their." obvious value as tools. To me, your poetry addresses the aesthetic and psychological value you perceive in firearms---which, by the way, I share.
Now, ya damned hermit, send me the tea cozy, it's a cold spring, and I have in mind another use for it.
Clouder..0 -
Delete heuristic and substitute, obvious or objective. The word is inappropriate and pedantic.
Hunting and defense doesn't speak to heuristic value, the rest of the argument does. Its' use makes you stub your toe instead of proceding smoothly through the discourse.
"Stated purpose" is also a misfit which would be less awkward if the words, hunting and defense were substituted.
"Subjective value" better states the position than "imagined use"
Quantifying the appreciation and validity of art, and firearms are art, is a difficult business which needs to be done.
I for one welcome literate argument for defense of, interest in and ownership of, firearms for for other than hunting and self defense.
The opposition has wanted for years to restrict ownership of guns to hunting and target shooting.0 -
quote:Originally posted by v35
Delete heuristic and substitute, obvious or objective. The word is inappropriate and pedantic.
Hunting and defense doesn't speak to heuristic value, the rest of the argument does. Its' use makes you stub your toe instead of proceding smoothly through the discourse.
"Stated purpose" is also a misfit which would be less awkward if the words, hunting and defense were substituted.
"Subjective value" better states the position than "imagined use"
Quantifying the appreciation and validity of art, and firearms are art, is a difficult business which needs to be done.
I for one welcome literate argument for defense of, interest in and ownership of, firearms for for other than hunting and self defense.
The opposition has wanted for years to restrict ownership of guns to hunting and target shooting.
I stubbed my toe on an "its'" once myself. [:D]
Clouder..0 -
quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
Firearms as tools for hunting and defense speaks to their heuristic value, certainly, but wholly misses the aesthetic and psychological, which, judging by the number of guns sold vs game tags issued and reported incidents of armed homeowners actually foiling intruders each year, would indicate that use of firearms for stated purpose is a far second to their imagined use, i.e., what they uniquely represent and engender on a very personal level. An H&R Topper and Winchester 21 likely will get done the purpose for which they are designed, as will either a Ford or Ferrari. But what is it about the sound of a 275GTB long-nose or the fit and finish of an old Winchester double that incites imagination and lust far beyond utility and mere assemblage of parts? To me, holding a Colt Model 1911 is a connection to Sergeant York and Belleau Wood and Manila John Basilone, a conversation over cigars with John Moses Browning, a renewed love for my country and a host of other reveries and emotions that certainly cannot be the result of my punching holes in paper with it on a Sunday afternoon. In a sense, guns stand to my daydreams as Walter Mitty's "pocketa-pocket-pocketa" stood to his.
Yes, it was well written, and a treat to read. While it was probably written as a lark, it still amazes me. Thanks. I try to have an original thought and use the simplest words as possible to express it. Many people try hard to sound educated. They express themselves as poorly educated morons, but keeping it simple is my highest goal when writing.
Once again thanks. I am in awe. I can only imagine what could be done if his abilities were applied for the good of mankind.0 -
Plaid,
They were (his abilities}---that's why he's now a hermit. [:D]
Clouder..0 -
quote:To me, holding a Colt Model 1911 is a connection to Sergeant York and Belleau Wood and Manila John Basilone,
I don't know, but I kind of think this whole fondling Sergeant York thing is a little too Broke Back Mountain for my taste. I know it got Clouders juices flowing and he has mostly been too old and stove up to post this winter. Personally, I just like having guns around. Sometimes I even shoot them. Sometimes I take them hunting. Most of the time I am thinking about the next one.
It is all well and good to contemplate the essential nature of guns, to consider them tools of practical application, or even to consider them as objet d'art. I just like them.
Nice to see ya Dances, how's the winter been.0 -
quote:Originally posted by v35
Delete heuristic and substitute, obvious or objective. The word is inappropriate and pedantic.
I do not know what dictionary you are referencing, but heuristic in this context refers to utility. The word comes from the same Greek root as "eureka": ??????, which means "I find". A heuristic is a way of directing your attention fruitfully; firearms for hunting and defense provide means for just such direction. The words "obvious" and "objective" you suggest could not be more misplaced. Talk about inappropriate and pedantic; I may have to have two Scotches tonight.0 -
There is the DWS I have missed! Ream him again for correcting your thoughtful and eloquent prose![:D] 0 -
Hit you in the azz, did I? Sorry 'bout that.
How can you trip over the pebble of a mildly abstract pronoun when there are such glaring boulders there to tumble over?
The use of the pretentious and obscure literary word heueristic in a 72 word sentence, sets a guarded mood in the mind of the reader right off. Additionally, the word is incorrectly applied. It doesn't mean the obvious but a means of investigating beyond the obvious or stated utility by empirical means. A tool obviously designed for hunting and defense doesn't speak to its' heueristic value. The abstraction, which may not involve hunting and self defense, does.
Look it up in your Funk & Wagnalls or Webster's Unabridged or Random House College Dictionary.
"Stated purpose" is a hell of a lot more abstract than my "its'".
Imagined use is another floater.
Pedantry puts a chip on your shoulder that needs to be epoxied on.0 -
quote:Originally posted by v35
Hit you in the azz, did I? Sorry 'bout that.
How can you trip over the pebble of a mildly abstract pronoun when there are such glaring boulders there to tumble over?
The use of the pretentious and obscure literary word heueristic in a 72 word sentence, sets a guarded mood in the mind of the reader right off. Additionally, the word is incorrectly applied. It doesn't mean the obvious but a means of investigating beyond the obvious or stated utility by empirical means. A tool obviously designed for hunting and defense doesn't speak to its' heueristic value. The abstraction, which may not involve hunting and self defense, does.
Look it up in your Funk & Wagnalls or Webster's Unabridged or Random House College Dictionary.
"Stated purpose" is a hell of a lot more abstract than my "its'".
Imagined use is another floater.
Pedantry puts a chip on your shoulder that needs to be epoxied on.
Is mere iteration of a view to you a reasoned rejoinder? You misread (I can't even say "misinterpreted") the sentence. I suggest you google "heuristic value"; if your lips tire quickly, have somebody read it to you. But do not presume to state intention in my behalf.
More to the point, me thinks thou doth protest too much. There is a difference between trafficking information and fostering an agenda. Put another way, your replies here evidence motive, tone and vocabulary which my use or even misuse of a term seems oddly out of proportion. Why is that?
Could you possibly be any more transparent?0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsavo303
There is the DWS I have missed! Ream him again for correcting your thoughtful and eloquent prose![:D]
[:D][:D][:D]0 -
You guys are making my head hurt...[:D] 0 -
Hey, did someone forget about my heuristic tea cozy?
Clouder..0 -
Transparency?
You had readers wanting to sock you in the nose.
C'mon, be a good loser.0
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