Israel
does israel like america? i think theyre supposed to be our allies but it doesntreally seem like we have ANY allies. people just pitch in here and there. like you ever invited a couple buddies over to help work on your car after you helped them put a deck up in their back yard and they just stand there? Didnt we sell f-18's and f22's to israel? if we did thats the deck we put up and iraq is our car needing to be fixed!
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The problem is if we allow Israel to help out it will only bring more of the Islamic zealots out of the woodwork. Just like when we had to convince Israel to allow itself to misled by Iraq and not respond militarily. Have no doubts that when it comes time to use nukes the Israelis will be more than happy to help out. 0 -
That and Israel has enough of their own local problems, they don't need to get involved in a police action elsewhere... 0 -
+1
we ask them not to help alot
The islamofascists get stirred up more when Isreal does somethingquote:Originally posted by fastcarsgofast
The problem is if we allow Israel to help out it will only bring more of the Islamic zealots out of the woodwork. Just like when we had to convince Israel to allow itself to misled by Iraq and not respond militarily. Have no doubts that when it comes time to use nukes the Israelis will be more than happy to help out.0 -
Israel is very pro-America.
Its certainly the only functional democracy, but probably the only pro-America state in the entire Middle East. A few of the others (eg the Saudis) give lip service to America, but when you look at what they do (instead of what they say) its not so.
Why can't Israel help in Iraq?
First of all, Israel probably *is* helping. . .with intelligence on Syria and Iran quietly behind the scenes. Israel also is rumored to be supporting the Kurds in Northern Iraq (ie Kurdistan) by providing them with both training and equipment.
You have to take this with a grain of salt (Seymour Hersh is a long-time critic of the gov't and agitator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh), but this is a reasonable summary:
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/040628fa_fact?040628fa_fact
Note, that two years ago (according to Hersh) Israel was saying that the insurgency was being directed and supported by Syria and Iran and that the USA needed to seal the border.
In terms of boots on the ground in Iraq proper, the biggest reason is what was listed earlier. The Iraqis can't stop from killing one another, the last thing they want is a bunch of Jews from Israel coming over there and "helping".0 -
quote:does israel like america? i think theyre supposed to be our allies but it doesntreally seem like we have ANY allies. people just pitch in here and there. like you ever invited a couple buddies over to help work on your car after you helped them put a deck up in their back yard and they just stand there? Didnt we sell f-18's and f22's to israel? if we did thats the deck we put up and iraq is our car needing to be fixed!Israel views us as convenient. Before we became their sugar daddy, it was France was(bet no one here knows that), but France began telling Israel to play a little nicer and they pitched a fit and today have been buzzing French peacekeepers in Lebanon.
If our aid ever came with so much as one tiny string, they would cut us off at the knees in a heartbeat.
They already sold F-16 technology and advanced air-to-air missiles to China - heaven knows what else they've done.
Israeli politicians regularly brag that they control the United States, not Americans.
They view our aid to them as a favor to us by them for letting us help them. If you've ever had a friend or acquaintence with a sense of entitlement, you'll know what I mean.
But then again, most welfare recipients do act that way - you give 'em something and they come to demand more.
Long gone are the days when Israel was a self-sufficient and noteworthy nation. Petty men with greedy ideals have perverted it into a welfare state.
NOTE: I refer to the Israeli government when I say "Israel." Most Israelis I have met couldn't be nicer and are often times more patriotic about America than most Americans are.0 -
The British and the Australians are extremely friendly to the US. They are our life-long allies until we do stuff to piss them off. Poland, Czech Republic, and Japan are just a few of the other countries in the world that share our world views. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
Israel views us as convenient.
And its quite obvious the feeling is mutual. Welcome to "Realpolitic".
quote: Before we became their sugar daddy, it was France was(bet no one here knows that), but France began telling Israel to play a little nicer and they pitched a fit and today have been buzzing French peacekeepers in Lebanon.
I love how you jumped from the Suez canal crisis of 1956 to Hezbollah terrorism in 2007. I think you may have left a little bit in the middle out there, though.
France was never the "sugar daddy" of Israel, though relations with France were good starting in the late 50s when Israel was a fledgling nation after it helped out with the Suez canal crisis. France used to sell Israel a lot of weapons in those days, but that was a long time ago, and its long since stopped. Israeli relations with France are now relatively poor, but its at least in part due to rampant anti-Semitism in France (and growing Muslim influence there).
In terms of "buzzing" the French "peacekeepers" on the ground in Lebanon, as you know, f#$king with the chickens#$t frogs is a time-honored military tradition going back decades, not solely restricted to the Israelis (or Americans).
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If our aid ever came with so much as one tiny string, they would cut us off at the knees in a heartbeat.
"No, I don't want that free money, PLEASE stop giving it to us!"
Israeli military assistance comes and has always come with the stipulation that it be used to purchase American equipment (which the Israelis do in large quantity, then retrofit to their own specs, helping their military, and our economy), so your thesis is simply incorrect on its face.
And you don't think the USA yanks Israel's chain? Have you been listening to Secretary of State Rice, say, over the last two years?
Remember what Israel did when Saddam Hussein launched SCUD missles into Israel during the first Gulf War? That's right. . .NOTHING. Want to know why Israel, with the most powerful military in the region didn't respond? It's because George Bush I, asked Israel NOT TO, that's why.
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They already sold F-16 technology and advanced air-to-air missiles to China - heaven knows what else they've done.
First read here about rampant theft and acquisition of American miltary technology by China:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/3319656.html
Second, in the late 80s after a very large joint investment by Israel, the USA scrapped development of the Lavi aircraft, which was Israel's answer to the F16 (and partly based on F16 technology). Supposedly the new Chinese fighter bears a striking (and likely not coincidental) resemblance to this project.
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Israeli politicians regularly brag that they control the United States, not Americans.
So the Jews are secretly controlling the US gov't, huh? Where have I heard that claim before. . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion
Speaking of claims of controlling the US govt, ever heard this one?
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"I summon my blue-eyed slaves anytime it pleases me. I command the Americans to send me their bravest soldiers to die for me. Anytime I clap my hands a stupid genie called the American ambassador appears to do my bidding. When the Americans die in my service their bodies are frozen in metal boxes by the US Embassy and American airplanes carry them away, as if they never existed. Truly, America is my favorite slave."
King Fahd Bin Abdul-Aziz, Jeddeh 1993
Now, in fairness to the Saudis, I don't know if the quote is legitimate. It probably isn't (though the Saudis do enjoy slavery). Even if the quote is legitimate, bragging about something doesn't make it true.
But since you've made the claim, would you care to post a correponding quote from any mainstream Israeli politician such as Ariel Sharon, Bibi Netanyahu, Golda Meir, Shamir, Rabin, etc.
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They view our aid to them as a favor to us by them for letting us help them. If you've ever had a friend or acquaintence with a sense of entitlement, you'll know what I mean.
LOL. You forget to mention that Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon together receive just as much money from the USA as Israel does. I guess they are all entitled too. (And gosh, we get SO much back from Egypt. . .a country with a 50% literacy rate).
Getting back to "realpolitic", here's how it works.
Israel is the only Western democracy in a sea of fascist and (in some cases openly hostile and terrorist sponsoring) Islamic nations. Israel also lies conveniently at the junction of Asia, Africa, and Europe. Israeli intelligence is the best in the region, and its military is the most poweful in the region.
It is in America's interest to have a liberal democracy in the Middle East, and that makes Israel a strategic ally of the USA. It means that its in the USA's interest to help Israel and make sure it survives. It doesn't make Israel the USA's "bee-yotch". It doesn't mean Israel isn't self-sufficient. It doesn't mean that the USA and Israel's interests will always converge (though they largely do). It doesn't mean that Israel is "bought and paid for", but it *DOES* give the USA extra leverage from time to time.
Remember Saddam Hussein. . .you know that Stalinist murderer from Iraq, that just got hanged? Which country did the dirty work and took out his nuclear weapons program? Which country just kicked the crap out of Hezb'Allah, the terrorist group that murdered 300 US Marines in Beirut? Etc. . .
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But then again, most welfare recipients do act that way - you give 'em something and they come to demand more.
You are aware that American assistance to Israel is going DOWN, not up, right?
And to change the subject slightly, speaking of entitlement programs, did you know that the Palestinians per capita have received (and to this day continue to receive) more financial aid than any other group of people in the history of the world? Pretty impressive for a group of people whose primary export is terrorism.
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Long gone are the days when Israel was a self-sufficient and noteworthy nation. Petty men with greedy ideals have perverted it into a welfare state.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
The Gross domestic product of Israel last year was about $135 Billion. The total Military budget of Israel last year was roughly 10% of that, about $13 Billion.
Total US miltary economic aid to Israel for 2007 will be $2.4 billion (its actually gone down from the previous year). Non-miiltary economic aid will be only $120 million, and it will be entirely phased out in 2008.
Meanwhile, in 2007 the USA will give Egypt $1.2B, Jordan $0.5B, and Lebanon $0.8B.
Add it up, and the USA is giving just as much cash to Israel's neighbors as it is to Israel, and unlike the money to Israel (which as you remember must be spent on American products, boosting *our* economy) most of that money does *not* come back to the USA.
Now, while I would never say that $2.5 billion in economic aid is inconsiderable, but (unlike, say, "Palestine") to call Israel a "welfare state" is simply ignorant.0 -
Beantown is Spot on. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by SuburbanNoize
does israel like america? i think theyre supposed to be our allies but it doesntreally seem like we have ANY allies. people just pitch in here and there. like you ever invited a couple buddies over to help work on your car after you helped them put a deck up in their back yard and they just stand there? Didnt we sell f-18's and f22's to israel? if we did thats the deck we put up and iraq is our car needing to be fixed!
Being an ally doesn't mean being suicidal.
Unfortunately, but logically, countries always act out of self-interest, and most countries lack America's power and idealism. (The "old" Europe, in particular, spends lots of its money on socialist entitlement programs, and not too much on defense/military).
Its hard to "sell" participation in Iraq to countries in other continents which have little direct to gain from it. Who stopped Hitler and why?
We don't have as many allies as we need, but in that list you can count Israel, England, Australia, Canada, and the "new Europe" which would include Poland and the Czech Republic. You can also count Japan, and (to a lesser extent) Germany. . .which says something about American "nation building". India is also an ally, and that relationship should continue to improve with time. Which countries are "allies" depends on what the issue is and the time.
To get back to the point, Israel is a little tiny pipsqueak country 150 miles long and 50 miles wide. As powerful as the Israeli army is, there isn't much it can add now in Iraq in terms of boots on the ground. (That is, even if the help were wanted. . .which it isn't).
Israel's biggest "help" was taking out Saddam Hussein's nuclear weapons program back in the early 80s. In the meantime, Iraq needs to build its own gov't and establish law and order, and all the USA can do is try to help the process and keep the peace until it happens.
On "does Israel like America" I can tell you firsthand that like in many parts of the world, there are plenty of Israelis who admire and respect America, a number who would like to be Americans themselves, and there are the predictable few who hate America. But in general, its probably the most pro-American place in the Middle East.
In particular George W Bush is probably the most popular American president in Israel in decades (more so that his father, Clinton, or even Reagan) in no small part because he is the first American president to recognize and take a public stand against Islamist terrorism, and he was the first American president to stop playing footsie with terrorist thug Yassir Arafat (after Bush caught Arafat lying to his face).0 -
According to "controversial talk show host" (read: conservative) Glenn Beck, our level of popularity is higher with the people of Iran than the people of Israel. 0 -
quote:It probably isn't (though the Saudis do enjoy slavery). Another canard against the Saudis. Slavery was abolished in the Kingdom in 1972.
Isn't prostitution in Israel going great guns and can't or won't be controlled because of the money it brings in?0 -
Didnt the french sell mirage fighter jets to israel before the 6 day war? 0
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