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Illegal Search?

Madman
Here's one for the LEO's of the group. Had quite a circus over the weekend. Live across the street from a "halfway house" that lets the nuts out daily to roam the neighborhood. The girlfriend has warned the local populace that we are a licensed FFL gunsmith shop and do test fire weapons on a regular basis. We have 16 acres and surrounded by national forest and mountain sides. That has kept the property clear until Saturday night. I was awoken at 2330 to a slew of vehicles driving in and out of my property. A fire engine backing out from my son's place was a lil unerving.
Well after another vehicle blasted down the drive towards the son's place I dressed grabbed the CCO 45 jumped in the truck and gave chase...only to find a Sheriff's cruiser K-turning in front of me. He pulled along side and said they were searching for an escapee with dementia. Well I proceeded down to my son's house to find two rescue squad trucks, four police cruisers, two blood hounds and a bunch of guys runnin around spitting tobacco and jawing in front of my son's place. He was not home and it was locked up.
I offered to open things up and turn lights on for em to help them out....well as I approach the house lights are on in his apartment and throughout the house. The front door is locked and I questioned what the H*** was goin on? As I opened the door and went in one of the guys hollered don't go in there there are armed deputies in there and you may get shot....I replied that's fine I own the place, am packing my own heat and they could get shot....Ohh was the reply and ok go in and announce you presence.
They quickly came down from my son's apartment and left the house saying they had searched enough. They gained access by forcing open the opposite side of a sliding door and climbing over items that were in front of it. My son's guitar collection was tampered with as was much in his room.
The question is what gave the keystone cops the right to enter my personal residence without my permission, knowledge, or a search warrant? Their excuse was the bloodhounds tracked his scent to that door...Two days and nights of this circus and they never ever identified themselves or asked permission to run through my property and ransack each and every outbuilding on the property.
They found the perp in a drainage tunnel just opposite my hay field....after we suggested it. What ever happened to the 4th Ammendment?
Educate me guys...

Paul
Mountain Magic Gunsmithing
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Comments

16 comments

Date Votes
  • gunnut505
    Not sure about local laws where you live, but ever since Klinton killed the 4th Amendment; free for all is what you get.
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  • spanielsells
    I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV, but I believe probable cause gives them the right to search without a warrant.
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  • spryor
    I always thought probable cause was what was needed to get a warrant..(?)
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  • spanielsells
    quote:Originally posted by spryor
    I always thought probable cause was what was needed to get a warrant..(?)
    Maybe I'm not using the right term.

    If you are at the scene of a murder, and you have blood all over your shirt, the cops do NOT need a warrant in order to detain you and search you for weapons. They have probable cause to hold you and search you.

    If you are weaving in and out of your lane and driving erratically, the cops do NOT need a warrant to have you perform a sobriety test or to give you a breathalyzer. They have probable cause to hold you and to search you.

    The same goes here. You have an escaped psychopath. The cops are looking for him. They see him run in the general direction of your house and perhaps even see him enter through an open window. They do not NEED to have a warrant to knock on your door and search your premises to find this dangerous person. They are in the midst of a pursuit and thus, have probable cause to believe he is in the house.
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  • Colt Super
    Wouldn't that be the doctrine of "hot pursuit" or "pursuit of a suspected felon"??

    Doug
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  • spanielsells
    quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
    Wouldn't that be the doctrine of "hot pursuit" or "pursuit of a suspected felon"??

    Doug

    Certainly if you're Buford T. Justice. [:D]
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  • flyingtorpedo
    I'm not a LEO but I do know that there are certain times that they do NOT need a warrant to search. However, even with a warrant there are restrictions to where they can look. Say they have a warrant to look for a stolen bike they can not search areas where a bike can't fit, like a small drawer. It sounds like they did more then search for a person in your house and you may have a case against them. I'm going from memory on this stuff and haven't thought about it for a few years but I would talk to a lawyer about the legalities of this as it sounds as if you can't/wouldn't trust the local cops.
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  • Laredo Lefty
    There are 2 theories they can search under without a warrant.

    First, if they saw the susp go in the building, it would fall under "fresh" or "Hot" pursuit. No its not a Smokey & the Bandit term.

    Second, there is "exigent circumstances". This is when there may be an emergency or someone is in distress in the building and going in to search is justified.

    Madman..... After they told you not to go in the building...and you did... your lucky you didnt get arrested for interfering.

    So, the end result is, under the circumstances, they dont need a warrant or your permission.
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  • Johnnylikesguns
    Don't ask us

    Ask your lawyer.
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  • bhale187
    If they saw a fleeing felon enter the residence they could enter without warrant in my state, but a dog tracking to the door would only be enough for PC of a search warrant. However, I could not say if your state's law and/or case law allows for more latitude with a K9 search.

    the following is the best advise yet....
    quote:Originally posted by Johnnylikesguns
    Don't ask us

    Ask your lawyer.
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  • Dakota308
    if it appeared that the "perp" had entered the house at the spot the hound tracke him to or had seen evidence of unlawful entry at another point i belive there would be probable cause. if there was none then no
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  • Madman
    Thanks guys!
    Got it off my chest, and gonna let it lay....my grand daughters experienced the same as they live up the road a piece where they captured the nut case.

    Paul
    Mountain Magic Gunsmithing


    ...fools die laughing still...Foo
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  • Wolf.
    --
    -All's ah kin say iz:

    Iff'n dey noks down yo doe errly won moanin' an you done nothin' wrong, aim high!!!
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  • chollagardens
    I understand that some states allow evidence in court from a well trained LE and dog team. It is possible that the person they were looking for tried to enter your son's house. That would lead the dog to his house. On the other hand if the police used that as a excuse to enter your son's house and it was found that the person they were looking for did not go there it would bring into question all past and future testimony of that team and possibly others. Tracking/trailing/search and rescue teams are a huge asset. I would think that the police wouldn't risk any harm to their reputation.
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  • JamesRK
    If you didn't leave anything out, it don't sound legal to me. Even in a legal search, it's only legal to search places it would be reasonable to find what they are searching for. You ain't gonna find the nutcase hiding in a guitar.
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  • bpost
    Madman. Are you a MORON? [;)]

    You do not have rights today. Many years ago we had a bunch of old white guys that wrote some cutsie suggestions on a document or two. Those "suggestions" are long forgotten and well ignored by government.

    To have rights today you need to be (1) ILLEGALLY in the USA -or- (2) A bonafide oppressed minority (non-white). [B)]

    The gall you have thinking the cops should get a warrant before busting into your property. Gee-whiz, next you will tell us that owing a gun is an individual right granted by God and codified someplace in fairy land. [:0][;)]
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