I hope this guy rots...
Never mind the fact she was pregnant, He obviously had control of her then tazed her... what a #^$
http://www.blacklistednews.com/view.asp?ID=4897
http://www.blacklistednews.com/view.asp?ID=4897
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My only question: What crime did she commit to warrant the action by the police? From what was reported I could not see that the use of the Taser was necessary. This woman was frustrated and wanted help from the police. Then she came to her senses and got tasered when she tried to leave. She had every right to leave and not be tasered for wanting to do so.
My position. Limit Taser use to people committing criminal acts. It should never be used this capriciously, not matter how well meaning the officer that he was in doing so.0 -
Whether we like it or not Police do have a legal right to detain someone who they beleive is a threat to themself or others. The detention is done in order to deliver the person to mental evaluation by a docor.
Third paragraph down
"The officer feared allowing her to leave could jeopardize the child and he decided to detain her to get more information."
BTW, she did not want help from the police, she wanted them to babysit for her because she was tired of playing games with her baby's daddy.
quote:Originally posted by Boomerang
My only question: What crime did she commit to warrant the action by the police? From what was reported I could not see that the use of the Taser was necessary. This woman was frustrated and wanted help from the police. Then she came to her senses and got tasered when she tried to leave. She had every right to leave and not be tasered for wanting to do so.
My position. Limit Taser use to people committing criminal acts. It should never be used this capriciously, not matter how well meaning the officer that he was in doing so.0 -
bhale187 quote:"The officer feared allowing her to leave could jeopardize the child and he decided to detain her to get more information."
Do you believe this is what he actually said, or was it the PD lawyers attempt to do damage control on what was truly an over reaction by this police officer?
quote:BTW, she did not want help from the police, she wanted them to babysit for her because she was tired of playing games with her baby's daddy.Again this is damage control spin. We are only getting one side of the story at this point. I would say there is much more to this than what is currently reported. This women was evidently frustrated, but does frustration mean she is a danger to herself or her baby?0 -
quote:Originally posted by susie
Here's another one to add to the stirring of the cop pot. Cops used a battering ram to break down a door for $17.18 worth of food! Tell me they couldn't find a landlord to supply a key to the door. Utterly ridiculous.
Nov 29, 11:29 PM (ET)
EASTPOINTE, Mich. (AP) - Police used a battering ram to break down an apartment door and arrest a woman they say grabbed food from a pizza delivery man but failed to pay him.
Jessica Gray, 19, of Eastpointe was arrested Wednesday after she and the occupants of her apartment refused to pay for a delivery of pizza, ribs, chicken, shrimp and a soda valued at $17.18, police say.
According to police, Gray answered the door when a 21-year-old, combo meal-carrying delivery man arrived at her apartment about 7 p.m.
Gray took the meal, then slammed the door and joined four other female occupants inside - ranging in age from 14 to 21 - in yelling insults and threats when he didn't leave, police say.
"She was rough when she took it from him," Detective Lt. Leo Borowsky told The Detroit News. "And she was large enough where he didn't want to fight her."
The Associated Press was unable to reach Gray for comment because she has no listed phone number.
A police report says responding officers "could hear the occupants laughing and whispering inside but refusing to answer the door. The officers advised the occupants that if they refused to come to the door, it would be opened by force."
Police then broke down the door, and the delivery man identified Gray as the person who took the meal. Police recovered rib bones, chicken bones and shrimp tails as evidence.
Gray was arraigned Thursday on a felony charge of larceny from a person, then released after posting a $5,000 bond.
"We take this kind of stuff seriously. It is a crime," Borowsky said. "These (delivery) people are on business and if you steal from them, we're going to prosecute."
The circumstances as described do NOT authorize the police to make a warrantless entry, period.
IF they were bound and determined to enter the apartment and it does sound as if there was probable cause to believe the perp was inside, then a search warrant would be mandatory.
There are damn few exceptions to the warrant rule. Among those reasons are some sort of "exigent circumstance" such as "hot pursuit", or an immediate threat to someone inside etc, or you can obtain informed "consent".
Once again, this has the appearance of an abuse of police powers. Won't make that a difinative statement on that because I don't have all the facts, but it sure smells bad.0 -
quote:Originally posted by bhale187
quote:Originally posted by susie
Here's another one to add to the stirring of the cop pot. Cops used a battering ram to break down a door for $17.18 worth of food! Tell me they couldn't find a landlord to supply a key to the door. Utterly ridiculous.
Would you have viewed this differently if it was a woman who had her pocket book with $17.18 taken from her, and the man who did it ran into his apartment then refused to open the door?
Would have made no difference to me. If there was P.C. to believe the prick that stole it was inside and there was no exigency, then the proper and constitutional method of policing would require a search warrant to enter and put the "habeus grabbis" on Mr. Mope.
Pretty cut and dried with no ifs, ands, or buts.0 -
quote:Originally posted by lt496
IF they were bound and determined to enter the apartment and it does sound as if there was probable cause to believe the perp was inside, then a search warrant would be mandatory.
Really? in Illinois warrantless entry can be made if an officer has probable cause to beleive a felony has just occured within the dwelling and evidence will be destroyed if immediate entry is not made.0 -
I believe the tazer has a place to serve within the police force,but unfortunately there ars a few leos who rely on it too much.If that officer could not handle that female once he had her down he shouldnt be in his job,plus if he cant handle the situation there must of been other officers there that could have helped.The tazer is becoming a tool that is used too often just too make life easy for a very few who cant handle certain situations. 0 -
I live and work in a very unstable and pretty much lawless land, the middle east. You think it is bad here? Where I live and work police set up bombs to kill people, police go bad and have the backing of major terrorist groups, we don't have it bad here.
Also just like with our US military the media only shows the bad and we seldom see the good. Nobody cares when a cop or a soldeir does something to help, only when that cop or soldier does something that our sissified society thinks is a terrible thing. You will almost never hear of the cop helping a stranded motorist, same with our soldiers helping an Iraqi on the road. You will almost never hear about a cop saving someones life, same with a US soldier saving an Iraqi after an attack.
Police do alot of good but we never hear about it, only when things go south do we hear it. Same with the soldier, let him have to make a snap decision and things go south that is when the media tells us about them.
How many of you ever been outside of the US? How many have ever been in Germany and seen cops carrying machine guns slung over their shoulders on patrol? How many have been to England and been subject to random questioning and profiling, something that the media would freak about here?
Some of you will never know just how good we have it here. I've been to lawless places and believe me, it aint no damned fun. If you feel that you want to live in a land with no law well by god I can point you to some nice row houses that are vacant in downtown Baghdad so you can live in a land without law. Then we will see you begging to come back here where we do have police protection.
To our cops, thank you.0 -
quote:Originally posted by bhale187
quote:Originally posted by lt496
IF they were bound and determined to enter the apartment and it does sound as if there was probable cause to believe the perp was inside, then a search warrant would be mandatory.
Really? in Illinois warrantless entry can be made if an officer has probable cause to beleive a felony has just occured within the dwelling and evidence will be destroyed if immediate entry is not made.
What evidence were they going to destroy, the $17 and change pizza and chicken wings??
Delivery man had the food taken from him and the door shut in his face, but "she was rough" in the way she did it. By the letter of the law was this a robbery? In my state it probably is. By the spirit of the law, does this necessitate forcible entry into a residence? Not in my book.
Smart-ass suspects still giggling inside, limited ingress and egress points, a small amount of money to "destroy" = search warrant in the book of the constitution.0 -
quote:Originally posted by lt496
What evidence were they going to destroy, the $17 and change??
Smart-ass suspects still giggling inside, limited ingress and egress points, a small amount of money to "destroy" = search warrant in the book of the constitution.
Did you read the story? There was no money involved, that was the crime itself.0 -
quote:Originally posted by bhale187
quote:Originally posted by lt496
What evidence were they going to destroy, the $17 and change??
Smart-ass suspects still giggling inside, limited ingress and egress points, a small amount of money to "destroy" = search warrant in the book of the constitution.
Did you read the story? There was no money involved, that was the crime itself.
Yeah and I edited my reply while you were posting this one. You beat me to it.[:I]
I had meant to add the food and had only listed the dollar amount to emphasize the true nature of the crime.0 -
I see, well as I see it the true nature of the crime was theft from person, a felony. I don't see a problem with knocking down the doors of &%^# felons who refuse to open up.
I don't know why I bother posting retorts anyway, some people just like to monday morning quarterback tough decisions with very limited information. Hell, it's the internet and everyone knows what arguing on the internet is like [B)]0 -
Welcome to the United Police States of America. Cops have increasingly stronger power every year. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by bhale187
I see, well as I see it the true nature of the crime was theft from person, a felony. I don't see a problem with knocking down the doors of &%^# felons who refuse to open up.
I don't know why I bother posting retorts anyway, some people just like to monday morning quarterback tough decisions with very limited information. Hell, it's the internet and everyone knows what arguing on the internet is like [B)]
I agree that the crime is probably classed as a felony. Regardless, how do you reconcile the 4th Amendment's restriction placed on government, with breaking down a door without a warrant, when a warrant could have been readily obtained, based on what I read????
Most do not give these issues a second thought and in my eyes, that is a huge problem and in large part why we have so many police powers consistently getting broadened.
If you will have noticed, I qualified my response to both situations by saying that all the facts were not available.
The discussion, at least from my perspective, was simply about the underlaying theme of the police actions and under what circumstances they may have been, or may not have been, lawful.
The subject of a predatory government and actions taken upon citizens by the police is an important topic in my eyes.
There can be little argument that a large encroachment into basic constitutional rights, enumerated in the Bill of Rights, has been happening steadily. We are talking serious stuff, 2nd Amendment, 4th Amendment, 5th and 6th and on, and on....
Nothing wrong with getting into a philosophical discussion over the powers of America's Police and what the limits on those powers should be.
I maintain that there is a bright line of distinction between those of us who police our communities. there are two distinct camps, one being substantially larger and more visible than the other. The camps are those who look at their role as being a "Law Enforcement Officer" and those of us who view ourselves as "Peace Officers".
I won't digress too far into this subject, since it is probably worthy of its own thread.
I will close by saying that the LEO's are all about having more laws and more authority and power to enforce them, regardless of the spirit of the law, or its "rightness". Those of us on the Peace Officer side, take a dim view of many of the multitude of "malum prohibitum" laws and we view our activities in light of the "rightness" of the particular law and how what we do has an effect on others and our oath to the US and State Constitution.0 -
quote:Originally posted by susie
No, I' not debating the issue of whether they should have arrested the miscreant, only the method of entry-a battering ram. A murder suspect gets negotiated with for hours on end when locked in an apartment and a bunch of giggly females get an apartment door demolished for seventeen bucks worth of pizza.
I beg to differ. Cleveland executed a battering ram entry on suspect last year who fired through the door at the officers. One of the officers was hit in the spot where his vest does not cover and died.0 -
To Wolf:
quote:LET'S GET THIS OVER WITH RIGHT NOW!!!
---70% of all police officers are a threat to the community they "serve". ("Serve" being the LA street gang term for "dominate".)
BS. Show me some hard statistics. If police misbehavior were as rampant as some of you cop haters claim, it would be so common as to be unworthy of notice in the press. The fact is, police misbehvior IS an anomaly, and that's why it makes news.
quote:---Police, fire, dogcatchers, prison guards, etc. all mentally believe they are part of some paramilitary brotherhood and that they are some sort of elite group. They refer to citizens as "civilians", as if they (these cop, government employee) were some sort of military group. ALL police are civilians.....READ THIS TO MEAN ALL!!. Get it boys? This means you!
Wrong. "Civilian" has more than one definiton. This is from the Merriam Webster Onlline Dictionary:
civilian
Main Entry: ci?vil?ian
Pronunciation: \s#601;-#712;vil-y#601;n also -#712;vi-y#601;n\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law
2 a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force b: outsider 1
- civilian adjective
quote:---When called to task for their actions, their union kicks in to protect them along with the police department managers (they call themselves "chief", "lieutenant", "captain", etc.). YOU ARE NOT MILITARY....GET IT!!
Police and fire departments use, and have used titles such as you mentioned since there have been police and fire departments, a darn long time. You'd think if such titles were improper, they wouldn't have survived. What would you have us call the supervisors?
Most agencies of any size have people assigned to handle complaints against, and investigate alleged wrongdoing by their officers. We have such people, and they do a very good job. The in-car video has made their job a lot easier, and a simple review of the video proves most complainants to be liars.
quote:---When called to task, they whine about having to face the dangers of the street and that they only see the "underbelly" of society, etc. Police CAUSE 75% of the problems they face in the street. If they don't like the work, GET OUT!! Why do they stay? So they can retire at age 40-45 with a full disability (stress) pension. They get all benefits, pay, etc. and play for the rest of their lives at our expense.
You speak from IGNORANCE. You should keep shut lest everyone see it. We fund our own pension accounts, with matching funds from the city. Most employers offer 401K plans and match funds. What's the difference? We have no "disability" pension. If we have 10 years in, we are vested and can draw a pension when we reach retirement age, and we can retire at any age after 20 years service. BTW, 20 year retirement will net us about 35% of our working salary, and we have to fully fund our health insurance, about $500 a month just for the officer, never mind any dependents. We must put in over 30 years to get any sort of decent pension.
quote:---Police are actually tax collectors and janitors. That's it. They hand out tickets for "gotcha!" offenses, which do not endanger anyone. Tickets are a MAJOR source of revenue for municipalities, don't let anyone fool you. When you hear the police whine about not having enough officers, it's because the municiplaity is down on the manager's (oh! excuse me! "Chief's".) ass to raise revenue by handing out more tickets. Their janitorial functions consist of cleaning up messes. Police rarely prevent crime, accidents, etc. In fact, the US Supreme Court has ruled that it is not the duty of the police to protect citizens.
So...driving drunk, running red lights, and speeding in school zones don't endanger anyone???? What color is the sky on your planet?
We don't "collect" anything. We arrest people, and we cite people. It's up to the courts do collect, if there is any collecting to do. If the court decides to go easy on a violator, or let him off altogether, well, we did our job.
And, yes, we do clean up messes. YOUR messes that you don't want to deal with.
quote:---Cops are told and they believe this; citizens are expendable and they are not.
Blatant lie.
quote:News flash for police officers!! YOU are expendible. That's what you are paid for. That's why you get more pay and benefits than comparable government employees in non-police positions.
If the job is so desirable, why do we CONSTANTLY work short-handed, and are always testing for new recruits? If it is such a desirable occupation, with such great pay and benefits, why aren't YOU signing up? Thought so.
I make no excuses for police misbehavior. If an officer is wrong, he/she can and will be dealt with through proper channels.
On another thread, I answered you point for point, just as I did here, and you did not respond. I don't expect you will respond to this either.0 -
quote:Originally posted by spurgemastur
So many opinions......so few facts.
Till later, thanks Mateo for spitting good Glenfiddich on your screen. That was worth reading about.
Sorry.
I'll try to consider your feelings in the future.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
To Wolf:
Why would you spend your time to responding to something like that? Being branded "cop hater" here myself, even I can't take what he said seriously.0 -
quote:Why would you spend your time to responding to something like that? Being branded "cop hater" here myself, even I can't take what he said seriously.
I don't know. Just can't let that sorta crap go unanswered I reckon. At least I was nice about it. When I was younger, I wouldn't have been.0 -
All I know, from personal experience, is that when I try and enforce the rules on many black people (usually women) they automatically go into the resistance mode. Even when the situation could be a calm and easy situation, they seem to have it in their DNA to make the situation more difficult for everyone concerned. Difficult for them, for their companions, for me, for my fellow employees and for the other employees in the area.
I only offer this as my own personal observations proven over many years time and time again.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
quote:---Police, fire, dogcatchers, prison guards, etc. all mentally believe they are part of some paramilitary brotherhood and that they are some sort of elite group. They refer to citizens as "civilians", as if they (these cop, government employee) were some sort of military group. ALL police are civilians.....READ THIS TO MEAN ALL!!. Get it boys? This means you!
Wrong. "Civilian" has more than one definiton. This is from the Merriam Webster Onlline Dictionary:
civilian
Main Entry: ci?vil?ian
Pronunciation: \s#601;-#712;vil-y#601;n also -#712;vi-y#601;n\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law
2 a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force b: outsider 1
- civilian adjective
Dave, the dictionary is wrong. Anyone not subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice is a civilian. You still have all of the civil rights as defined in the Constitution whether at war or peacetime. Military members are not allowed to quit during a battle. Civilians may quit at any time and just walk off without punishment (Remember the cops in New Orleans?). My leave papers used to say that in an emergency, make my self available to civilian authorities if unable to return to my duty station.
Police like to think they are paramilitary, going as far as to dress up in BDU's with a kevlar helmet and carry military weapons, but it's just make believe. Cops are just citizens with positional authority. Not a slam, just the truth.0 -
Nunn,
You beat me to wolf's outlandish feable attempts to bash LEO's everywhere.
I would REALLY like to know where he found such trash ..
he must have got a parking ticket for parking in a disabled parking only spot and now hates police..[:p]
AND,,, For one, I do NOT think in any way that i am PARAmilitary or anything related to the military ! NObody else on my department beleives this either, even the ones who are in the armed services. what do you want me to wear Gym shorts ? do you want me to carry a slingshot instead of a subgun ? Replies like this Do not make sense ! not at all ..
I'm not trying to start a debate, but Dont call me something that I am NOT. I have family and friends who are serving oversea's at this time. I respect what their doing and respect all ( Servicemen )who are over their.0 -
I enjoy reading these amusing responses. 0
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