Surprised and concerned
I appreciata all of the comments made concerning religious/spiritual matters about my family's decision to become Mormon. Dissappointed in the number of negative reactions. My dad once said "we need more good people in this world". He was and is right. Discussing religion is interesting and informative. The attacks on good values (regardless of the source) is dismaying to me. I'm not thin-skinned or sensitive BUT shouldn't we who hold values of faith, hope, honesty and charity stick together? Especially in America today? Divided we will fall.[?]
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i was not suprised at all with the reaction of soo many christians, i wish you well 0 -
Didn't you expect people to give you their honest opinion of your choice to join the LDS when you posted? I don't think anyone was saying that Mormon people aren't nice or decent, the ones I have met have been just that. The disagreement was with the Mormon doctrine. Not the people themselves, or even their morals for that matter. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by sav99
Didn't you expect people to give you their honest opinion of your choice to join the LDS when you posted? I don't think anyone was saying that Mormon people aren't nice or decent, the ones I have met have been just that. The disagreement was with the Mormon doctrine. Not the people themselves, or even their morals for that matter.
All true.[:)]0 -
Dutch: lots of people set here. Perhaps too set? Dunno. If nothing else, I received an education reading all the replies to your announcement. Sadly, the responses were so predictable it was amusing. [shakes head] Joe 0 -
Whether you noted it or not, my post offered information, not condemnation. It was Socrates who said, "an unexamined life is not worth living." By extension, in this context, an unexamined "faith" or religion, is not worth following. If Mormonism will not bear sincere scrutiny, especially held up to the light of the Bible, you might wish to reconsider your "family's" decision. If YOU choose to lead your family in a path that YOU are unwilling to fully examine, are you fully prepared to accept the consequences in THEIR lives?
I, too, will add that all my experiences with mormons have been positive...insofar as they are "good, moral and decent" people. However, "good, moral and decent" is not necessarily the criteria by which people will be judged in the end. Indeed, the Bible states that there is NONE good but God. Jesus is the one who said that. (Matthew 19:17)
The following link will help you explore mormonism compared to orthodox Christianity. I pray that you will take some time to become informed, for your own sake and for the sake of your family, which you obviously (and commendably) love.
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-r002a.html0 -
People would strap a bomb jacket on and kill you for your beliefs in other parts of this world. All you got was ribbed a little. 0 -
A man's search for God is a personal one and must be done on a personal basis. I want my decision to be my own, and I don't care what anyone thnks about it. My biggest concern is that you have the freedom to trust and believe in what ever higher power you choose.
I too was a little surprised by some reactions. I guess religious freedom for some is only good to those who believe exactly as they do. That's not freedom or tolerance.0 -
quote:I too was a little surprised by some reactions. I guess religious freedom for some is only good to those who believe exactly as they do. That's not freedom or tolerance.
Yes agree0 -
One last dig.
When some of our white founding fathers talked to the Indians on uniting, in 1754, they were told then God must be in the equation or it would not work. Later, in the 1780's? they were told the same thing. Our constitution, derived from those meeting with the Indians, God was one of the factors. Those elders mentioned our unity would only stand if the Creator was remembered. Simple history we were taught in grade school.
I'm happy for the Dutchman, he has found a path that will lead him home to the Creator.0 -
I belive that each religon teaches that it is the one true path to heaven. I believe they teach that so that they can fill there own coffers, I think that if there is a god there are many staircases to reach him, you just have to choose to reach for HIM and you have arrived. regardless of which path you choose you trying assures your arrival. Amen 0 -
Don't sweat it, Dutchie.
You've found a path that works for you. Good for you.
Besides, you can always look down on Scientologists. They are some real weirdos.
D.0 -
Its a move in the right direction, definatly. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
A man's search for God is a personal one and must be done on a personal basis. I want my decision to be my own, and I don't care what anyone thnks about it. My biggest concern is that you have the freedom to trust and believe in what ever higher power you choose.
I too was a little surprised by some reactions. I guess religious freedom for some is only good to those who believe exactly as they do. That's not freedom or tolerance.
i agree, and disagree, while it is a personal choice a man should be able to stand up and speak of his religion in ANY crowd, and it further disturbs me that in this case he has at least chosen the same christian god, but that is not good enough people have to split hairs on how it is done
this is the problem i have with religion, not only is my god better than your god, we have to do everything the exact way as i do or your not serving my god correctly, and will burn in hell for it
{dhef this is not directed at you personally, you just said the right thing}0 -
An H&K is a good pistol. A Lorcin is a good pistol.
I hate the way these gun guys go around saying that there is something fundamentally flawed with a Lorcin. Dammit there is no such thing as truth!0 -
quote:Originally posted by sav99
An H&K is a good pistol. A Lorcin is a good pistol.
I hate the way these gun guys go around saying that there is something fundamentally flawed with a Lorcin. Dammit there is no such thing as truth!
and what faith are you?0 -
I don't remember what my reaction was to your post, but it was probably negative. If so, I apologize. I've heard lots of disagreeable stories which might have been inaccurate.
dheffley has the right attitude.0 -
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
quote:Originally posted by sav99
An H&K is a good pistol. A Lorcin is a good pistol.
I hate the way these gun guys go around saying that there is something fundamentally flawed with a Lorcin. Dammit there is no such thing as truth!
and what faith are you?
I am a Christian. Born again in 1999 at the age of 31.0 -
and lds is not christian? 0 -
In this world where subjectivity reigns supreme, even those who aren't aware of it, are looking for (or believe they've found) an objective absolute.
Subjective things are 'subject' to many winds, many variables, ranging from what sounds good, to what seems logical, to how things sound or appear to us when we have a stomach-ache, or have had an argument with the spouse, to what someone else has to say, ad infinitum.
But the objective never changes, never is dependent upon how we feel, what we think, or even what we wish or desire. The objective is never subject to the mass media and what's 'fashionable' today, never in line with the political 'realities' of the day, and most certainly never what we see, feel or think. Seeing, feeling, thinking, these are all super subjective things.
For the politically minded, the Constitution used to be objective. We accepted it as written, and didn't try to alter it's meanings. We read the words, and figured they meant what they said, and said what they meant.
But along came those who decided allowing the constitution to say what it says, was too pat, too convenient, and certainly not easily enough manipulated to suit their own ideologies and ultimately, their lives. For believe it or not, liberals and conservatives live different kinds of live.
When we reach a point in our lives, that we're willing to make a commitment to some new theology, some philosophy, some new world view, some new way of life, we must first decide what will be objective for us, what we can turn to with questions, what thing will determine the lines between right and wrong....and in the case of Christians at least, that which will serve as the 'constitution' by which we'll be judged when we stand before the judgment throne.
And in religions, in spiritual matters, in ways of life, you've got many choices as to your objective absolute. You can choose the doctrine or dogma of a particular church or denomination. You can choose the teachings of some prophet or teacher. You can choose from a plethora of books, visions, even the things your friends and relatives are saying. You can choose science, scepticism, agnosticism, the ballistic tables for the 30-06 cartridge, you name it, you can choose to accept it as your absolute.
You can also choose the bible. Not one among us would decide to reload a cartridge to higher powers and velocities without reading the tables, nor make bearnaise sauce without a recipe. Not one among us would try to obtain a commercial driving license without studying the material. No one among us would attempt to buy a house without reading the contract.
But many (if not most) people decide to accept the bible as the objective absolute, without reading it, without truly knowing for themselves what is truth, and what is not. They attempt to determine their future eternal lives without studying the material, without the recipe, without reading the contract.
This one thing I'll tell you that is for certain truth. The bible says many things you don't know it says, if you don't read it for yourself. And as importantly, the bible DOES NOT say many things you've heard, or thought it said, if you don't read it for yourself. By way of example, did you know the bible does not say, "God helps those who help themselves"? or that 'faith' appears in the Old testament only a total of two times? That while one gospel states the thief on the cross asked Jesus to save him, two other gospels state this thief railed on Jesus while on the cross, casting the Lord's state at that time 'in his teeth'?
According to its own testimony, the bible is God's speaking to us. It is God's absolute, His objective, His never changing, objective absolute, that which you can depend upon in any condition, at any time. According to Jesus, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away" Matthew 24:35. According to Peter, we are "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever." 1 Peter 1:23.
God's absolute is the Word of God, the bible. Not that which people think about the bible, not what they believe about the bible, not what they necessarily teach, talk or preach about the bible, but the bible itself.
A man's contemplated retirement years down the road, can inspire enough thought to make us spend 40 hours a week working at a job we probably don't like, save money, stay away from crime, pay social security, try to eat healthy, improve ourselves....you name it, nothing is too much when preparing for what may be really, a very short period of retirement before death.
But we seem almost incapable (as if some other power does everything within its power to keep us from doing it) of reading the bible ourselves in order to help us make preparation for the eternity, our never-ending lives after death and judgment, which will come as surely as the sun's rising.
Read your bible. Find out for yourself if you're willing to accept it as your own objective absolute, that thing you can depend upon even when the world has ceased to be.
And if you are, well, there it is, in your hand, readily available anytime you need to refer to it. Put it in your heart, before your eyes, within your inner-self. Don't listen to those who probably know less than you do....and if they know more, read the bible and know more yourself.
There's life there. And it is important.
Sahagan0 -
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
and lds is not christian?
No Sir, they are not.0 -
why?
quote:Christianity (Hebrew: d?o??) is a monotheistic[1] religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as depicted in the New testament.[2] Christianity teaches that Jesus is the Son of God and the Messiah prophesied in the Old testament, and that the New testament records the Gospel that was revealed by Jesus.
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=e419fb40e21cef00VgnVCM1000001f5e340aRCRD0 -
quote:Didn't you expect people to give you their honest opinion of your choice to join the LDS when you posted? I don't think anyone was saying that Mormon people aren't nice or decent, the ones I have met have been just that. The disagreement was with the Mormon doctrine. Not the people themselves, or even their morals for that matter.
sav99 has it right. After all wouldn't you prefer to have people tell you when your about to make a mistake? But alas, some people have to make their own mistakes to learn and will not let others inform them of the truth. But hey, if you want to join a cult that was founded upon lies and deciete then so be it, what ever makes you happy.0 -
I think this is why the sage advice says to avoid discussions of religion and politics in mixed company if you want to avoid controversy. 0 -
My short observation life has shown religion to be extremely dangerous.
A freind of mine has said God is not religion.
Choose your path on your own do not let anyone tread on your decision that is your move not theirs.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
I think this is why the sage advice says to avoid discussions of religion and politics in mixed company if you want to avoid controversy.
yep sooner or later someone is going to get ignorant0 -
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
why?
I'll address this from a doctrinal position. Mormons believe in countless gods which are scattered throughout the universe and are presiding over many planets and making babies through intercourse with their Celestial Wives. They also believe that God was a mere Mormon man on another planet who achieved godhood through his Mormon piety, and then became the god of this planet. They believe that we are all potentially gods in the making, and that Christ is our brother, being born from the same father god. They believe that a good Mormon man can become the god of his own planet with many celestial brides if he lives life by the LDS standards.
This is one example of the differences is doctrine. Most everything they believe is contrary to what Christians believe. I listen to Glenn Beck during the day on talk radio, he insists that Mormons are Christians. I don't why they would want to be affiliated with us. It no longer lends any type of credence to their claims.
I won't "bash" Dutchman or any Mormon. They, as Americans who are free, have a right to their beliefs. And they do tend to be very nice people. But at the same time, when asked I won't pretend that they are a Christian church when their teaching is contrary to ours in almost every way. This is not just my standard, no Christian denomination officially recognizes Mormons as a Christian faith.0
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