Opinions on Taser use
This one may be controversial, I'd like to hear some opinions. This incident occured at a local hospital.
About a week ago, two nurses, who had just finished their shifts, were standing in the parking lot chatting. Two males approached them, yelling at the nurses as they moved closer. The nurses were spooked enough to run back into the hospital, with the male subjects chasing behind. To shorten the story the nurses got away and reported it to hospital security, who did manage to get the incident on video, but were unable to locate the two males...
The next day, one of the security guards sees someone who he believes is one of the males from the day before. He approaches the guy in order to find out who he is. The guy runs and the security guard gives chase....
The security guard radios that he is chasing a male across the hospital parking lot. The radio call is heard by another guard who is on a bike. As the guard on the bike catches up to the (still running) subject, the guy reaches into his jacket pocket, pulls out something, and begins to turn....
The guard, fearing for his safety, pulls out his taser and drops the guy.....Turns out the object in question was a cell phone
The cops show up and I.D. the subject.....The guy is wanted for Robbery and Burglary..........and has a couple grand worth of cocaine (in baggies) in his pockets. Off to jail he goes...
Now the rumor is that the cops are considering charging the guard with assault
Opinions?
About a week ago, two nurses, who had just finished their shifts, were standing in the parking lot chatting. Two males approached them, yelling at the nurses as they moved closer. The nurses were spooked enough to run back into the hospital, with the male subjects chasing behind. To shorten the story the nurses got away and reported it to hospital security, who did manage to get the incident on video, but were unable to locate the two males...
The next day, one of the security guards sees someone who he believes is one of the males from the day before. He approaches the guy in order to find out who he is. The guy runs and the security guard gives chase....
The security guard radios that he is chasing a male across the hospital parking lot. The radio call is heard by another guard who is on a bike. As the guard on the bike catches up to the (still running) subject, the guy reaches into his jacket pocket, pulls out something, and begins to turn....
The guard, fearing for his safety, pulls out his taser and drops the guy.....Turns out the object in question was a cell phone
The cops show up and I.D. the subject.....The guy is wanted for Robbery and Burglary..........and has a couple grand worth of cocaine (in baggies) in his pockets. Off to jail he goes...
Now the rumor is that the cops are considering charging the guard with assault
Opinions?
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Pin a medal on the guard! 0 -
Why should he be charged? Looks like he did a good job to me. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by SW 357Mag
Why should he be charged? Looks like he did a good job to me.
According to the story I've heard, the cops are saying:
A) He had no buisness chasing the guy to begin with...
(Forgot to mention this in the story)
Had no right to detain the guy until the police arrived...0 -
Under that set of circumstances most "cops" would have shot the guy, but not with a taser, and it would have been justified. 0 -
In most states, security guards do not have the right to detain anyone by force. That's a big no-no.
But as the law is not enforced by Judge Dredd, there are things called extenuating circumstances. And given the situation the night before, his actions were understandable. For all the security guards knew, this guy was looking to rape someone.
I say give him a medal and a verbal warning to be more careful in the future - it worked out for the best and people should not be punished for doing good.0 -
security guard done his job if he would of just stood back and called 911 the perk would proably still be loose 0 -
I'm still from the old school of thought that if you run, you are guilty of something. That is reason enough for me to assume when they turn with something in their hand, it's not going to be a bouquet of roses. Tasers are non lethal, so I would say the security guard did a good job. 0 -
In Va. a Security Guard is nothing more than a deterent to prevent crimes from happening. Laws vary from State to State, under normal circumstances I could not imagine a Security Guard using this type of force on what could have very well been a mistaken identity. 0 -
A lot depends on the local laws, just as if these were two cops involved instead of security officers.
No right to chase?
The fact that the subject took off running when approached by the first officer would lead a reasonable person to believe that he was committing some offense, even if it was only trespassing.
No right to detain?
In California, security officers only have the right to citizens' arrest if they witness a misdemeanor or witness or are reasonably led to believe a felony has been committed, same as any citizen.
The main limit on private security companys's behavior is the contract they have with the client, as most clients specifically restrict their guards for liability reasons. Armed guards are rare. "Observe and report" is the mantra for security officers, in other words let crimes take place right in front of you and just be a good witness.
I'm shocked that these guards were allowed to have TASERs. I worked security for a large hospital once upon a time, and we were prohibited from carrying any kind of stick, spray, or large flashlight, only the supervisors were allowed to carry handcuffs, and we were prohibited from wearing vests.
I suspect that there may be some bad blood between this guard outfit and the local police. It's hard to imagine them being charged if the two guards had been regular coworkers of the nurses.0 -
what happened to citizens arrest and probable cause? give the guard a medal. another slimeball off the streets 0 -
This is the way of the world today......punish the good guy for stopping the bad guy. It's just what our kids need to see. [:(!][:(!]
rider0 -
bad guy will go to jail [:D] guard will get a warning [:(] and the bad guys lawyer will sue everyone in site [:(!][:(!], bad guy will get $$$$$$$$$$ [V][V] and its said crim does not pay. 0 -
Thanks for the opinions....
I would like to point out that the guard who tased the perp was unaware of the circumstances of the chase. He simply responded to the initial guard's call for assistance.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
I'm still from the old school of thought that if you run, you are guilty of something. That is reason enough for me to assume when they turn with something in their hand, it's not going to be a bouquet of roses. Tasers are non lethal, so I would say the security guard did a good job.
Agreed.0 -
The security guards did nothing wrong. Tasers are a very safe alternative to any other less-than-lethal weapon. Pepper spray/mace/OC is as hazardous to the user as it is to the target, bean-bag rounds can do some significant injury, and they're not readily available to all law enforcement units all the time. Tasers have never been the direct cause of death in anyone who's ever been shot with one. They incapacitate the suspect quickly (although painfully), and can be used up to 3 times before the batteries need to be replaced, and work up to 21 feet away from the officer.
I say use them more.0 -
Anyone who gets tasered probably had it coming. 0 -
Then I guess the police should just taser everyone on initial contact, eh? After all, it's harmless. Unless, of course, you happen to have a preexisting heart condition or something... But you can't blame the taser. You were going to die some day anyway. 0 -
quote:Then I guess the police should just taser everyone on initial contact, eh? After all, it's harmless. Unless, of course, you happen to have a preexisting heart condition or something... But you can't blame the taser. You were going to die some day anyway.
No, police shouldn't carry any sort of weapons at all, just a whistle. When someone runs or resists, the officer should blow his whistle. It's very intimidating, and works well in England.
By the way, what color is the sky on your planet?0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
quote:Then I guess the police should just taser everyone on initial contact, eh? After all, it's harmless. Unless, of course, you happen to have a preexisting heart condition or something... But you can't blame the taser. You were going to die some day anyway.
No, police shouldn't carry any sort of weapons at all, just a whistle. When someone runs or resists, the officer should blow his whistle. It's very intimidating, and works well in England.
By the way, what color is the sky on your planet?
[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]0 -
Ridiculous 0 -
quote:Originally posted by jwb267
what happened to citizens arrest and probable cause? give the guard a medal. another slimeball off the streets
Citizens arrest requires the person to be in the process of committing a crime, just seeing a guy that might be the guy from before (who was not guilty of any major crime- yet- maybe disturbing the peace/harassment for yelling at the nurses), is not sufficient to effect a citizens arrest.
Some things sound suspicious - if you are running, just as someone catches up to you, why would you suddenly pull out your cell phone? but if you shot someone with a taser without cause, you can always claim "I saw him pull something out of his jacket", and then claim its a benign object if there is no weapon (and you aren't so corrupt to plant one).
Running is not sufficient to assign blame, though it sure is suspicious.
I'd let it slide in this case.
He was wanted after all, there doesn't appear to have been further abuse (like multiple taserings) and no innocents were harmed.
Cops, who are given positions of authority, I would hold to higher standards.0 -
In Texas, any person can make an arrest for a felony or a "breach of the peace" occurring in his presence.
Different courts have different standards for what constitutes a "breach of the peace." Some will limit it to offenses included under the Disorderly Conduct statute, while others will include just about any offense, since all complaints for all offenses have to be styled, "...against the peace and dignity of the State of Texas."0 -
So things are so slow that we have to bring back old threads? 0 -
Somebody got a bug up his nose about the use of the TASER, did a search, and bumped a couple of old threads. 0 -
Originally posted by Nunn:
No, police shouldn't carry any sort of weapons at all, just a whistle. When someone runs or resists, the officer should blow his whistle. It's very intimidating, and works well in England.
Just don't blow it too loud - you might lower their self esteem or hurt their feelings[:0]0 -
While still in the military in Kentucky, I took on a security guard job for part time. We were armed and had the power of detention only if it was for a crime in progress. We also could use deadly force if and when it became necessary. I dont know if they still have that policy there or not, that was over 35 years ago. 0 -
Dude sounds like he was in a situation where had it been an innocent person, he could have lost his job.
Fact is, he got a bad guy of the street.
I say, charge him with nothing, give him a verbal or written "warning" and maybe a medal or some kind of paid vaccation time or something.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
Somebody got a bug up his nose about the use of the TASER, did a search, and bumped a couple of old threads.
Doing a search for all long dead threads that revolve around a particular subject - even though you never felt inspired to respond to these at the time they were current - and bumping them up to the top is odd behavior.
'Stirring' seems fairly accurate.0 -
This is for sure! If you see the officer pull out the tazer,,,,better behave. I think it is a great tool in the right hands. 0 -
I believe they should be used on any and all persons bringing up three year old threads.
Unless they are for rememberance of those passed, as I've seen. Then leave it holstered.0
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