WHAT IS FAIR COMPENSATION?..
In your opinion, what would be a fair compensation for spending almost 25 years in jail for a crime you didnt committ?..
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I don't think there would be a just compensation.
Maybe a million for each year?0 -
quote:Originally posted by MVP
I don't think there would be a just compensation.
Maybe a million for each year?
At the very least!!0 -
Well it seems that Florida wont pay a man 1.2 million for spending 24 and 1/2 years in jail for a crime he didnt committ....
They say its not in the budget, BUT they can pay over 4 million to the family of the kid who was killed in boot camp....0 -
How did he go about getting convicted of something he didn't do? 0 -
What would that person have made in that period of time if he was free? Maybe $20,000 a year in todays wages? so pay him what he is worth, $500,000 would do it. He would make far more than that on the made-for-T.V. movie deal. 0 -
BR,
Here's a C&P on this case. IMO, our state (FL) needs to pony up.
Exonerated convict may not get compensation
BY MARC CAPUTO
mcaputo@MiamiHerald.com
TALLAHASSEE -- Alan Crotzer, who is seeking state compensation for the 24 years he spent wrongfully imprisoned, is about to go home penniless this week as he searches for a job and a rational explanation from a state Senate that won't take up his cause.
With just four days to go in the two-month lawmaking session, Senate President Ken Pruitt all but forced his counterparts in the House to kill a measure Tuesday that would have given the St. Petersburg man about $1.25 million for his lost years.
''They call themselves Christians but speak with a forked tongue,'' Crotzer said, referring to Pruitt and the Republican leader of the Senate, Dan Webster.
Pruitt said the ''process'' is to blame, as well as a tight state budget of $72 billion -- which nevertheless has about $1 billion in unspent money.
Pruitt noted the Crotzer measure had stalled in a Senate committee -- in part, because of Pruitt's own rules -- and didn't belong on a separate bill to spend $4.8 million to compensate the family of 14-year-old Martin Lee Anderson, who died after he was violently subdued by Panama City boot camp guards.
Crotzer said he learned how to ''do time'' in prison, but he still reacted angrily to what's happening in the Senate.
Barring a last-minute change, Crotzer, 46, will have to come back to seek state compensation next year. It would mark the third time the former inmate has sought legislation since he was released last year on the strength of DNA evidence showing he didn't commit two rapes.
Many House members were outraged. And Gov. Charlie Crist said ''justice is crying out'' for compensation of both the Anderson family and Crotzer. Nearly all of the 120 House members approved a measure to compensate Crotzer. Then, on Monday, House members tacked Crotzer's language onto the high-profile Anderson relief bill sought by the governor.
But Pruitt insisted the two bills be separated because he and fellow Republican House Speaker Marco Rubio had agreed ahead of time to approve 14 compensation bills, including a measure sought by Rubio to give $8.5 million to former Fort Lauderdale resident Minouche Noel, who was crippled by botched state-paid surgeries when she was an infant 19 years ago.
BACK AND FORTH
In the waning days of the session, when loads of legislation pour on the floor of both chambers, any friction can kill a bill if it has to bounce back and forth between the two chambers as they agree on identical language. The House members then separated Crotzer from the Anderson bill, which passed with just 10 ''no'' votes and heads to the Senate for final approval. The House changed the bill to limit lawyer and lobbyist fees.
''I'm not going to give an opinion on what's fair and not fair,'' Pruitt said. ``The Senate is not going to be put in a position where we're doing it at the last minute. Nothing good ever happens whenever you're rushed or you work late.''
A separate measure compensating Crotzer never made it out of a Senate criminal justice budget committee, whose chairman said he's waiting for Pruitt to bring it to the floor. The Republican leader, Webster, said he prefers the failed bill because it seeks to set up a court-like process that gives all exonerated inmates a flat amount of money based on the number of years wrongfully spent in prison.
Last year, the Legislature awarded $2 million to Wilton Dedge, who spent less time -- 22 years -- wrongfully imprisoned than Crotzer.
The difference between the two: Dedge had a clean record and is white. Crotzer was convicted after stealing beer as a young man and is black.0 -
Obviously, Crotzer needs to go back to prison, then.
He is black and will commit more real crimes.
Doug0 -
dolfan..
I read the story in the paper when I got home, and I was shocked ...I went online to the st pete times to get the link to post it here....
I just cant believe they would do this ...he was not guilty, but he is branded for life as a rapist, and then to say compensation isnt in the budget?????????
TALLAHASSEE - Martin Lee Anderson and Alan Crotzer's lives intersected Tuesday on the floor of the Florida House.
A boy and a man. Both black. One robbed of life, the other of freedom.
But politicians decided there was room for only one in the state budget.
The House approved a $4.8-million award for Anderson's parents, who lost their son to the violence of a boot camp. But it backed off $1.25-million for Crotzer, the St. Petersburg man who spent 24 1/2 years in prison on a wrongful conviction.
Had it pushed on Crotzer, Senate President Ken Pruitt warned, the Anderson bill would not have been approved.
So Crotzer, who traveled to the Capitol to lobby in his own behalf, and was treated to hugs from tearful lawmakers in both chambers, may have to wait another year.
"If there's no way to salvage it in the next 3 1/2 days, it's a true shame," Gov. Charlie Crist said. "I feel for him."
While the Legislature has not found $1.25-million for Crotzer, the budget includes that much for land acquisition at Gulf Coast Community College and phase 1 of the Polk County wastewater treatment system, among other projects.
"What happened to Martin Lee Anderson was horrible," Crotzer said. "But what happened to me was terrible, too."
Crotzer just moved to Tallahassee with his new wife and her two children. He has an offer to wash dishes at Andrew's, a popular downtown restaurant, but is seeking something more stable.
Fearful of precedent
The disparate fates of Anderson, 14, and Crotzer, 46, expose the thorny and complex politics behind claims bills. They are called that because the Legislature must approve any amount exceeding $200,000.
Anderson died last year after a violent encounter with guards at the Bay County boot camp for juvenile offenders. The case became a national story, prompting Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to join hundreds of college students in a march on the Capitol.
The Bay County Sheriff's Office already has settled with the family, paying it $2.4-million. Crist told the parents he'd fight for the state to pay an additional $5-million. (Technically the Legislature would be paying $4.8-million, since the state has already awarded $200,000.)
It was Pruitt, R-Port St. Lucie, who agreed to allow the Anderson case to be heard despite missing the deadline for claims bills this session. The bill pushed forward and came up for vote on Friday.
But some lawmakers were uncomfortable because the criminal case against the guards and nurse accused of contributing to Anderson's death has not gone to trial.
"I don't think the Florida Senate wants to send anybody out of here with the message that if you do a crime in Florida we get to convict you in the Florida Senate long before a court of law does," said Sen. Mike Bennett, R-Bradenton.
The bill passed anyway.
Crotzer, by contrast, did not have much luck from the start. The House had initially stalled on a claims bill to pay him $1.25-million, or $50,000 for each year be spent in prison for double rape in Hillsborough County. After DNA evidence exonerated him, Crotzer was released in January 2006, the same month Anderson died.
But then the bill began to move, in part due to the urging of the governor. Crotzer appeared at meetings. He recounted how he has been befuddled by cell phones and automatic faucets in the men's room since his release. He went to the Senate, too. Lawmakers shook his hand, gave him hugs.
The House last week passed out the bill, but in the Senate it was held up in a committee overseen by Sen. Victor Crist, R-Tampa. Crist said Tuesday that Senate leadership had set budget priorities and the Crotzer bill was not one of them.
There were philosophical considerations as well. Sen. Daniel Webster, the majority leader, said he opposed arbitrarily handling such cases one by one, based on the ability of people and their lawyers to get the Legislature's attention.
A bill that would set standards for compensating all wrongfully convicted people appeared dead this year, so Crotzer and his advocates focused on his case.
Like Bennett, Sen. Crist thinks the wrong bill was heard this year. "Personally I think the two bills were flip-flopped. For a bill to come to the Legislature, it should have gone through the court system."
In, out, in, then gone
On Monday, House Democrats tried to force the Senate's hand. They attached the Crotzer bill to the Anderson bill. But when the bill hit the full House floor Tuesday, they backed down.
Rep. Ellyn Bogdanoff, R-Fort Lauderdale, fought to keep the two linked together. We can talk to the Senate, she told worried Democrats. "Just give me a shot," she said.
The bill passed.
A half-hour later, Bogdanoff announced that the Anderson bill had to be reheard and stripped of the Crotzer claim, or it would be defeated in the Senate.
The House voted again, leaving them with only the Anderson bill.
"Right now, I'm ashamed of those in the Florida Senate that are trying not to compensate Mr. Crotzer. It's disgraceful," said Rep. Marty Kiar, D-Davie.
Rep. Jim Frishe, R-St. Petersburg, also disagreed with removing Crotzer from the measure. "I'm just appalled at what we did today," he said. "That man deserves some compensation."
Pruitt said the Senate was generous in paying claims. The Senate passed 12 local claims bills, he said, and agreed to take up the $8.5-million award for Minouche Noel, the South Florida teenager who was paralyzed as an infant by a state-contracted doctor.
"You do the best you can with the resources you have," Pruitt said. "I'm very proud of the budget we put together."
Staff writers Steve Bousquet and Rebecca Catalanello contributed to this story.0 -
You can't put a price tag on freedom....
At the same time, I don't see the point in making someone a couple million dollars either.
If it was up to me, I'd force the state to buy a mid-level home and car. He'd also receive free tutition at any state educational center to allow him to get whatever level of education he desires. Free education also for any of his children.
Handing him a lump sum of cash is only inviting disaster. Instead, give him the foundation for a solid future0 -
Don't forget he will have to pay taxes on the money..[:0] And 25 years of non savings for retirement. 0 -
Seen several cases like this. I feel very sorry for the guys that go through this. This is why I'm not that big a fan of DNA. Seen way to many cases in Houston figure out their DNA proof wasn't proof and someone messed up after sending someone to jail for a tidy sum of time. 0 -
They gave 5 mil to the family of a kid in a boot camp for troubled kids who would probably end up prison himself? What would the earning power of the kid be even if he didn't end up in the jug? Surely not 5 million! Free ride for some folks of color, spearheaded by the JJ and friend. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
Don't forget he will have to pay taxes on the money.. Not true. Monies awarded in judgements for pain/suffering are tax exempt.0 -
quote:Originally posted by MVP
I don't think there would be a just compensation.
Maybe a million for each year?
Tax free, too.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dolfan
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
Don't forget he will have to pay taxes on the money.. Not true. Monies awarded in judgements for pain/suffering are tax exempt.
Then he ended up with $50K a year for 25 years..0 -
getting 25 years alone with your attorney, the jury, the DA. . . 0 -
some of your opinions about what 25 years in prison is worth just amazes me, just for starters there is no way a person could predict what "he would have" made, heck if he where not in prison he very well may have missed his fate of being the worlds largest lottery winner
what good would an education do him at this point, he missed out on 25 years of life experiences, and very well may be institutionalized unable to cope with society
and who knows by giving him to much money he may use the money for things we do not approve of0 -
If a judge convicted them, LOTS OF MONEY.
If a jury of his peers convicted him, nothing unless the prosecutor did some misconduct.0 -
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
How did he go about getting convicted of something he didn't do?
From what I understand, it's not that hard. The Innocence Project has proved the innocence of 200 convicted people over the past 15 or so years. They often use DNA evidence to re-investigate crimes that were prosecuted before the DNA technology was available.0 -
25 years for two crimes he didn't commit. Where were you in 1982? Goes in at 22 and out at 46 when he will have little opportunity for a good paying job, let alone a career. No equity or savings. Perhaps he would have been in the same boat, today, had he not gone to prison. Who knows. The way our government's waste money, in the BILLIONS of dollars, I would say 1.25 million is more than fair to this man. 0 -
The family of a kid that is getting in trouble gets money and the innocent guys gets crap, that's fair. [V][V][V][V][V]
I think 20 million and never have to pay ANY taxes.0 -
Have a different redhead visit his home to cheer him up with a wish of the day, no wish not granted. And give him a liquor store to run when he gets bored with the redheads. Then give a credit card with no end to line of credit and no billing.[;)] 0 -
Put a statue of the guy on the courthouse lawn with a nice bronze plaque with the story on it.
Buy him bus fare anywhere, pat him on the butt, and say "Thanks for doing your part in service to America's values of guilt and innocence. Be good now. Ya hear?!"0 -
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
If a judge convicted them, LOTS OF MONEY.
If a jury of his peers convicted him, nothing unless the prosecutor did some misconduct.
I suspect you would be singing a different tune had you or someone you know been thrown in the clink for a quarter century.0 -
Originally posted by JamesRK
How did he go about getting convicted of something he didn't do?
25 years ago he was already convicted just because he was black, Even today Guilt or innocense really means little as we have seen by a few very high profile cases..0 -
quote:
I just cant believe they would do this ...he was not guilty, but he is branded for life as a rapist, and then to say compensation isnt in the budget?????????
Self-righteous indignation towards admitting one's mistakes, even when the preponderance of evidence suggests otherwise. And, no matter, these squirrelly sorts will simply say that it's one of those rare occasions where the system failed, sidestepping any culpability for denying another man 25 years of his life and freedom.
The best part is that the civil servants and politicians involved all sleep very well in spite of things.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nemesisenforcer
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
If a judge convicted them, LOTS OF MONEY.
If a jury of his peers convicted him, nothing unless the prosecutor did some misconduct.
I suspect you would be singing a different tune had you or someone you know been thrown in the clink for a quarter century.
I'm saying we are on a slippery slope. If a jury of his peers convicted him, and there was no misconduct, then that's the best we can do. Mistakes happen, but it's less than 0.002 of one percent. Who's at fault? Are you going to dump the whole system? 100 guilty men go free for every 1 innocent man who's sent to prison, but you want to take the exception and make new rules?
Even if you take the few high profile cases that Classic is talking about, divide that into the number of people who have been sent to prison in the same time and you come of with the 0.002 of one percent.
I'm sorry for the man, but what do you do?
If there is any misconduct (like the crap Mike Nifong pulled) make him serve the mans sentence and give him all of his worldly possessions. I don't have a problem with that. But you can't start paying off folks who go through the system and are convicted on evidence before a jury of their peers. That's why people need to take jury duty seriously. Ever watch "Twelve Angry Men"?0 -
There is no way he can ever be compensated. A long time ago it was a eye for a eye. If I remember correctly a king Hamarandi changed that by making it a law money could be used as compensation for damage. I believe it should still be a option to do either money or a eye for a eye for compensation. If the trial was conducted properly then money would be appropriate compensation. If the trial had misconduct then a eye for a eye would be a appropriate option. 0 -
I suppose good old Virginia will be bankrupt. During my short career as a Corrections Officer at Mecklenburg Correctional Center, every inmate I met was innocent and framed by the Commonwealth. 0 -
There are no "Guilty " people in prisons, but there are a few "Innocent" people in them..
EVIDENCE proved the man Innocent.. Sometime the evidence that proves them "Guilty" is tainted or circumstantial at the best..With some prosecutors the "Winning" of the case is more important than "Guilty" or "Innocent".0
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