VA. CCW permit holders names published
This really burns me up. All of the local papers in my area publish the names of new CCW permit holders. Recently a city newspaper published the names of ALL of the states permit holders. Virginians, we need to make our voices heard heard and stop this dangerous practice. Contact your local representatives and ask them to be heard on this issue.
Is this a common practice in other states? I don't remember my name, or any others, being published in newspapers when I lived in Maryland and was issued a carry permit.
Below is an article about the issue from the Freelance Star
Should concealed-gun information be public?
State to consider access to concealed weapon permits
BY CHELYEN DAVIS
Date published: 3/20/2007
BY CHELYEN DAVIS
RICHMOND--A state committee will study whether concealed weapon permit information should remain public record after a Roanoke newspaper ignited controversy by posting on the Internet a list of permit holders.
The Virginia Freedom of Information Advisory Committee yesterday decided to appoint a subcommittee to investigate the issue over the next few months.
The controversy started just last week when the Roanoke Times published, on its Web site, a list of all concealed-weapon permit holders in the state.
The list came from the state police, which is required by law to maintain that list, but the information is also subject to the Freedom of Information Act and is public record.
After numerous furious e-mails and phone calls from the public, the Roanoke Times took the list off its Web site. But Sen. Edd Houck, D-Spotsylvania County, said he was already getting calls and e-mails, particularly from other state legislators, who want to consider changing the law.
"There's a clash here between personal, private information and the public's right to know," Houck said after the FOIA council meeting yesterday. "It's a hot topic right now and a lot of people are very anxious about it. It's opened up all types of other issues."
Few people came to speak at the council's meeting yesterday, although Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, spoke and said he has requested an opinion from the attorney general on the issue.
Jim Kadison of the Virginia Citizens Defense League--a gun-rights organization--said his group is concerned about "possible abuse" of the list. He suggested creating a list of permit-holders for police and then a separate, public one that permit holders could opt off of.
Houck, who chairs the council, said he will also chair the subcommittee that will study this issue. He is worried that the issue may open the door to those who would like to see Virginia eliminate its permit requirement for a concealed weapon altogether, and said he wants to keep the focus on the public information issue.
However, Houck said, he also thinks consistency is important, and he pointed out that the rules governing the openness of concealed carry permits is no different than the rules governing other state permits--like doctor's licenses.
The Free Lance-Star periodically publishes the names of Fredericksburg area permit holders when the permits are issued.
The entire FOIA council will meet again in June.
Chelyen Davis: 804/782-9362
Email: cdavis@freelancestar.com
Date published: 3/20/2007
Is this a common practice in other states? I don't remember my name, or any others, being published in newspapers when I lived in Maryland and was issued a carry permit.
Below is an article about the issue from the Freelance Star
Should concealed-gun information be public?
State to consider access to concealed weapon permits
BY CHELYEN DAVIS
Date published: 3/20/2007
BY CHELYEN DAVIS
RICHMOND--A state committee will study whether concealed weapon permit information should remain public record after a Roanoke newspaper ignited controversy by posting on the Internet a list of permit holders.
The Virginia Freedom of Information Advisory Committee yesterday decided to appoint a subcommittee to investigate the issue over the next few months.
The controversy started just last week when the Roanoke Times published, on its Web site, a list of all concealed-weapon permit holders in the state.
The list came from the state police, which is required by law to maintain that list, but the information is also subject to the Freedom of Information Act and is public record.
After numerous furious e-mails and phone calls from the public, the Roanoke Times took the list off its Web site. But Sen. Edd Houck, D-Spotsylvania County, said he was already getting calls and e-mails, particularly from other state legislators, who want to consider changing the law.
"There's a clash here between personal, private information and the public's right to know," Houck said after the FOIA council meeting yesterday. "It's a hot topic right now and a lot of people are very anxious about it. It's opened up all types of other issues."
Few people came to speak at the council's meeting yesterday, although Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, spoke and said he has requested an opinion from the attorney general on the issue.
Jim Kadison of the Virginia Citizens Defense League--a gun-rights organization--said his group is concerned about "possible abuse" of the list. He suggested creating a list of permit-holders for police and then a separate, public one that permit holders could opt off of.
Houck, who chairs the council, said he will also chair the subcommittee that will study this issue. He is worried that the issue may open the door to those who would like to see Virginia eliminate its permit requirement for a concealed weapon altogether, and said he wants to keep the focus on the public information issue.
However, Houck said, he also thinks consistency is important, and he pointed out that the rules governing the openness of concealed carry permits is no different than the rules governing other state permits--like doctor's licenses.
The Free Lance-Star periodically publishes the names of Fredericksburg area permit holders when the permits are issued.
The entire FOIA council will meet again in June.
Chelyen Davis: 804/782-9362
Email: cdavis@freelancestar.com
Date published: 3/20/2007
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Anybody who knows me at all well knows that I'm a firearms freak. I don't keep it secret but it's not something I bring up at job interviews either.
One of the articles I read about this brought up the fact that if such a list were published on a regular basis it could be used as "inside information" by criminals as to who was likely to not be armed and conversely what homes to burlarize to find guns.
This kind of BS hasn't happened in Indiana that I know of.
quote:He is worried that the issue may open the door to those who would like to see Virginia eliminate its permit requirement for a concealed weapon altogether, and said he wants to keep the focus on the public information issue.
That part sounds like a silver lining to the cloud.0 -
ripley16, how did you ever get a carry permit in MD? They are as rare as hen's teeth. 0 -
On the brighter side I guess you can call it a "Don't 'F' with Me" list.
Seriously though, I don't think stuff like this needs to be published. It's really no ones business.0 -
How in the world did you ever get a carry permit in MD...That is next to impossible! 0 -
The records were public and apparently the newspaper acted legally, if not ethically. If you're a law and order type, then it shouldn't bother you.
Another reason to avoid getting on lists.0 -
quote:Originally posted by sarge_3ad
On the brighter side I guess you can call it a "Don't 'F' with Me" list.
Seriously though, I don't think stuff like this needs to be published. It's really no ones business.
That's what I was thinking.
Did they post other info like home addresses? If so this would make me really upset. If not then who really knows if it is you? There could be a dozen guys in the state with your name.0 -
quote:Originally posted by woodshermit
The records were public and apparently the newspaper acted legally, if not ethically. If you're a law and order type, then it shouldn't bother you.
Another reason to avoid getting on lists.
It bothers me because my permit was for a concealed handgun, not an advertised handgun. It is something most of us want kept a secret. Now anyone who read the papers knows I keep firearms in my house. I don't put ads in the paper telling the world about my coin collection, silverware or other valuables either. The permit was between me and the county, not me and the world.
Some butt-wipe reporter thought a blow was struck for freedom. No thought given to privacy or the endangerment of people. Not all public information should be or is made public.
On the matter of obtaining a Maryland carry permit, while it is difficult to get one, it isn't impossible. Unlike states that honor the constitution, Maryland requires you be a VIP or have a valid reason for a permit. I had a reason.0 -
"A state committee will study whether concealed weapon permit information should remain public record after a Roanoke newspaper ignited controversy by posting on the Internet a list of permit holders.
The Virginia Freedom of Information Advisory Committee yesterday decided to appoint a subcommittee to investigate the issue over the next few months."
The two Paragraphs above explain why government is so costly and inefficent. A study group and a subcommitte to consider a topic that is simple, "Common Sense."
Put 15 lawyers in a room and you can keep this topic on the table for a good year or two.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ripley16
quote:Originally posted by woodshermit
The records were public and apparently the newspaper acted legally, if not ethically. If you're a law and order type, then it shouldn't bother you.
Another reason to avoid getting on lists.
It bothers me because my permit was for a concealed handgun, not an advertised handgun. It is something most of us want kept a secret. Now anyone who read the papers knows I keep firearms in my house. I don't put ads in the paper telling the world about my coin collection, silverware or other valuables either. The permit was between me and the county, not me and the world.
Some butt-wipe reporter thought a blow was struck for freedom. No thought given to privacy or the endangerment of people. Not all public information should be or is made public.
On the matter of obtaining a Maryland carry permit, while it is difficult to get one, it isn't impossible. Unlike states that honor the constitution, Maryland requires you be a VIP or have a valid reason for a permit. I had a reason.
Yeah, you need to protect that coin and silverware collection you didn't tell us about. [;)]0 -
Never expect the government to exercise commone sense and never be surprised at what the press or any corporate entity will do to boost profits. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
[Yeah, you need to protect that coin and silverware collection you didn't tell us about. [;)]
Give me some credit. Neither of which do I actually own. I'm a bit ahead of the curve on some things Spider7115. I put very little accurate info on the internet. While my opinions are real, not much else is.0 -
quote:Originally posted by woodshermit
The records were public and apparently the newspaper acted legally, if not ethically. If you're a law and order type, then it shouldn't bother you.
Another reason to avoid getting on lists.
The reason we hired this government in the first place was to protect our rights and regulate business among many other things.
We pay their salaries through tax dollars so I don't think it is asking too much for them to do their job to protect us.
They don't publish the names and addresses of all the law enforcement members in the local area. At least I hope they don't.
Maybe one way to stop this behavior would be to get all the names and address of reporters and newpaper officials and print up flyers on personal computers and post them all over town. Do you suppose they would get the idea.0 -
Sure they would get the idea. Meanwhile their lawyers would tie you up in court and bankrupt you. Even if you won, you would lose. I'm not defending the newspapers, just saying that nobody should be surprised. 0 -
I look at this as a good thing.....there is an ongoing movement in a few states to not allow CCW permits to be public information...Thanks to the jackasses in Va, there is now a reason for such legislation to go forward 0 -
quote:Originally posted by woodshermit
The records were public and apparently the newspaper acted legally, if not ethically. If you're a law and order type, then it shouldn't bother you.
Another reason to avoid getting on lists.
If you want to be popular with the ladies, you have to have a pistol in your pocket.
The Commonwealth of Virginia says in order to have a pistol in my pocket without running afoul of the law, I must have a PERMIT TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN.
When I look at the Virginia Constitution, I find:
ARTICLE I - Bill of Rights
Section 13. Militia; standing armies; military subordinate to civil power.
That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.
And when I look at The Constitution of the United States of America, I find:
Amendment II
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
However, being a law abiding citizen, and wanting to be popular with the ladies, I got me one of them PERMITS TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN. Besides, the United States Supreme Court told me I have a "right to privacy". When I look at The Constitution of the United States of America, I can't find that "right to privacy" but the Supreme Court says it's there, so there is nothing to worry about. Right?
Right.0 -
quote:Originally posted by woodshermit
Sure they would get the idea. Meanwhile their lawyers would tie you up in court and bankrupt you. Even if you won, you would lose. I'm not defending the newspapers, just saying that nobody should be surprised.
Yea, but they would not have a clue who did it?? There are ways my friend.0 -
Do a Freedom of Information request for the State and see if they will give you a complete list of all politicians you list and whether or not they have valid drivers licenses. Also request each's past 10 year motor vehicle record as well.
Post that in the papers....You'll seem some legislation enacted to protect CCW's....and drivers licenses from FOI Requests.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ripley16
quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
[Yeah, you need to protect that coin and silverware collection you didn't tell us about. [;)]
Give me some credit. Neither of which do I actually own. I'm a bit ahead of the curve on some things Spider7115. I put very little accurate info on the internet. While my opinions are real, not much else is.
I was only joking, Ripley - Believe it or not! [:D]0 -
By publishing a list of all CCW holders, and not publishing a list of DUI holders, thiefs, convicted felons, people who drive without car insurance, parents who don't pay child support, people who could work but instead get welfare, people who join the military and then refuse to serve, etc. the liberal media proves they are afraid of and hate lawful gun owners more than they hate ANYBODY else. 0 -
Same thing happened in Ohio. Cleveland Plain Dealer if I remember correctly?
More liberal gun grabbers trying to make a point. Blame the politicians. They wrote the law.0 -
kinda p.o'd about hearing this being done, but with Houck having his thumb in the pie, i'm kinda relieved. He lives just a few miles down the road from me. 0 -
Maybe one way to stop this behavior would be to get all the names and address of reporters and newpaper officials and print up flyers on personal computers and post them all over town. Do you suppose they would get the idea.
I like the above idea. I agree that no one needs to know who and who doesn't have a CCW permit.0 -
Kind of defeats the purpose of CONCEALED CARRY. They might as well let us open carry if they are going to advertize it. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by dakotashooter2
Kind of defeats the purpose of CONCEALED CARRY. They might as well let us open carry if they are going to advertize it.
Open carry is already legal in Virginia - even in bars. You only need a permit to carry concealed.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
By publishing a list of all CCW holders, and not publishing a list of DUI holders, thiefs, convicted felons, people who drive without car insurance, parents who don't pay child support, people who could work but instead get welfare, people who join the military and then refuse to serve, etc. the liberal media proves they are afraid of and hate lawful gun owners more than they hate ANYBODY else.
Some of this is already done, in VA. I don't yet have a CCW, but plan to get one soon. I don't care if they publish my name as long as no other info goes with it. Put the address on there and theives looking for guns will have their B&E list made up for them. Freedom of information does NOT mean publishing your personal information. This stuff has to stop.0 -
The GAZETTE VIRGINIAN, Wednesday, March 21, 2007
Panel To Study Access To Concealed Gun Permit Data
RICHMOND, Va.(AP) - A state advisory council will consider whether public access to a list of Virginians with concealed handgun permits should be restricted after a newspaper published an online database containing the personal information of permit holders.
The Virginia Freedom of Information Advisory Council on Monday created a subcommittee to study the protection of personal identifying information.
"There's a clash here between personal, private information and the public's right to know." said the council's chairman, Sen. R. Edward Houck, D-Spotsylvania.
On its Web site last week, The Roanoke Times published a database listing the names and addresses of more than 135,000 Virginians who are licensed to carry concealed weapons.
The database accompanied a column on Sunshine Week, a national initiative to promote the importance of open government and records. The permit information is public record and is subject to the Freedom of Information act.
The newspaper said hundreds of readers complained on its message board and to a gun-rights group that publishing the names violated the privacy of law-abiding citizens and gave potential criminals information that would help them find victims.0
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