QUESTION ABOUT NEW BILL...
Okay guys, here it is....
Now I know a few ppl who have PTSD...one is even an FFL, it is documented thru VA etc, so under the new bill what is going to happen to anyone who has been diagnosed with PTSD...
Now I know a few ppl who have PTSD...one is even an FFL, it is documented thru VA etc, so under the new bill what is going to happen to anyone who has been diagnosed with PTSD...
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Well after I read through the new bill, it sounds almost impossible for anyone to be cleared after they have been cleared of any mental issue. 0 -
Show me a combat veteran, and I'll show you somebody that has to deal with what they saw, and how the war changed them everyday for the rest of their lives.
some shouldn't own guns. I knew a vet that would get blackout drunk, and hide in his bedroom with a loaded .45. It was my buddy's dad, and when he got that way, everyone would have to leave the house.
Call it PTSD, call it whatever, but every combat vet has it to some extent. To welcome them home, and then take away one of their constitutional rights because of what they've been through is a travesty.
Ben0 -
any one with ptsd is considered mental defective. they are considered dangerous baby rapers and mother killers. some where in their medical records is a statement by a doctor or social worker they could bee a danger to themselves or others. that will cause the loss of right to buy or own a firearm. it doesn't matter if it's a veteran, or a victim of rape or a tragic event in their lives. people who suffer from depression and have been treated will be put into the same croud. it doesn't matter if they are model of the community,and have never even had a traffic ticket. thanks to the anti gun congress and the nra our gun rights will be taken away. the so called normal people will be next, until all guns are banned. 0 -
In all the random shootings involving the public how many were perpertrated by veterans, I agree that they should not lose there right to carry because of there service to this country, We should be ashamed of the treament we show to our veterans. 0 -
Without putting any emotion into this,........my understanding is that at this point, it applies to folks that have been "adjudicated" as mentally defective.
I do NOT know if that means that they had to be institutionalized, or simply "judged" defective.
Also I do not know what the parameters of "defective" are.
I hope that someone like LT, or WagonWheel come along and see this, as they would most likely know the real answer.
No matter what,........it is not a good thing for vets with that issue on their records, and most likely for any of us after they expand it.
They have a victory here,.......think they won't expand it?[xx(]
Once again,.......THANK YOU NRA!![}:)]0 -
By Larry Pratt
September 22, 2007
NewsWithViews.com
Hundreds of thousands of veterans -- from Vietnam through Operation Iraqi Freedom -- are at risk of being banned from buying firearms if legislation that is pending in Congress gets enacted.
How? The Veterans Disarmament Act -- which has already passed the House -- would place any veteran who has ever been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) on the federal gun ban list.
This is exactly what President Bill Clinton did over seven years ago when his administration illegitimately added some 83,000 veterans into the National Criminal Information System (NICS system) -- prohibiting them from purchasing firearms, simply because of afflictions like PTSD.
The proposed ban is actually broader. Anyone who is diagnosed as being a tiny danger to himself or others would have his gun rights taken away ... forever. It is section 102(b)(1)(C)(iv) in HR 2640 that provides for dumping raw medical records into the system. Those names -- like the 83,000 records mentioned above -- will then, by law, serve as the basis for gun banning.
No wonder the Military Order of the Purple Heart is opposed to this legislation.
The House bill, HR 2640, is being sponsored by one of the most flaming anti-Second Amendment Representatives in Congress: Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY). Another liberal anti-gunner, Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), is sponsoring the bill in the Senate.
Proponents of the bill say that helpful amendments have been made so that any veteran who gets his name on the NICS list can seek an expungement.
But whenever you talk about expunging names from the Brady NICS system, you're talking about a procedure that has always been a long shot. Right now, there are NO EXPUNGEMENTS of law-abiding Americans' names that are taking place under federal level. Why? Because the expungement process which already exists has been blocked for over a decade by a "funds cut-off" engineered by another anti-gunner, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY).
So how will this bill make things even worse? Well, two legal terms are radically redefined in the Veterans Disarmament Act to carry out this vicious attack on veterans' gun rights.
One term relates to who is classified a "mental defective." Forty years ago that term meant one was adjudicated "not guilty" in a court of law by reason of insanity. But under the Veterans Disarmament Act, "mental defective" has been stretched to include anyone whom a psychiatrist determines might be a tiny danger to self or others.
The second term is "adjudicate." In the past, one could only lose one's gun rights through an adjudication by a judge, magistrate or court -- meaning conviction after a trial. Adjudication could only occur in a court with all the protections of due process, including the right to face one's accuser. Now, adjudication in HR 2640 would include a finding by "a court, commission, committee or other authorized person" (namely, a psychiatrist).
Forget the fact that people with PTSD have the same violent crime rate as the rest of us. Vietnam vets with PTSD have had careers and obtained permits to carry firearms concealed. It will now be enough for a psychiatric diagnosis (a "determination" in the language of the bill) to get a veteran barred -for life - from owning guns.
Think of what this bill would do to veterans. If a robber grabs your wallet and takes everything in it, but gives you back $5 to take the bus home, would you call that a financial enhancement? If not, then we should not let HR 2640 supporters call the permission to seek an expungement an enhancement, when prior to this bill, veterans could not legitimately be denied their gun rights after being diagnosed with PTSD.
Veterans with PTSD should not be put in a position to seek an expungement. They have not been convicted (after a trial with due process) of doing anything wrong. If a veteran is thought to be a threat to self or others, there should be a real trial, not an opinion (called a diagnosis) by a psychiatrist.
If members of Congress do not hear from soldiers (active duty and retired) in large numbers, along with the rest of the public, the Veterans Disarmament Act -- misleadingly titled by Rep. McCarthy as the NICS Improvement Amendments Act -- will send this message to veterans: "No good deed goes unpunished."
c 2007 Larry Pratt - All Rights Reserved
This is a C&P of course, and once again, I do not know of any changes made since this was written.
Beth,........if this is what passed, it appears the person you are referencing, is in for trouble![xx(]0 -
To quote my hero The Kingfisher, "The big print giveth, and the small print taketh away."
Seriously, this is a slap to all veterans. I'm not certain PTSD as a clinical reality actually exists. When bad things happen, our hearts and mind are affected somehow. Like a bruise. Used to be called battle fatigue, survivor guilt, etc. You could argue it is simply learning from our experiences. Combine it with drugs or alcohol, and it doesn't go away. By rights, a lot of men who should have PTSD don't.
Someone should attack this broad-brush attack as intolerant, which it is.0 -
Thank you Marc.... 0 -
Something I've not seen discussed anywhere is this: How many veteran's are going to try and hide their PTSD and not get the treatment they need in order to avoid losing their constitutional rights? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ljwrench
Something I've not seen discussed anywhere is this: How many veteran's are going to try and hide their PTSD and not get the treatment they need in order to avoid losing their constitutional rights?
Looks like a lot ,.............NOW![xx(]0 -
And if they dont get the treatment, then it could lead to a lot worse things happening...so its kinda "between a rock and a hard place" 0 -
My opinion ONLY, here.
Until this thing shakes out...no way of telling how the snakes will interpret this bill.
Were I in this position.I would buy anything I wanted RIGHT NOW.before it took effect.
Then ride the wave till we find out how sweeping it is going to be. Expect the harshest possible enforcement..the gun grabbers are Republican, also.0 -
BR and I know these people , and I often wondered how a man discharged because of PTSD ever got an FFL license. I knew a guy once from Nam that jumped on the PTSD Band Wagon and every couple months would get a gun and go shoot up someones house, VA would lock him up for a couple weeks. He played that game for about 4 years and they certified him 100% disabled. I know of several that played the game and a couple that really were disturbed..
I know plenty of people that, (including myself) faced brutal combat and outside of a few bad dreams ours lives were not affected that much. I am glad I was never diagnosed with PTSD , even if I am borderline NutZ[:o)][:o)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by fishermanben
Show me a combat veteran, and I'll show you somebody that has to deal with what they saw, and how the war changed them everyday for the rest of their lives.
some shouldn't own guns. I knew a vet that would get blackout drunk, and hide in his bedroom with a loaded .45. It was my buddy's dad, and when he got that way, everyone would have to leave the house.
Call it PTSD, call it whatever, but every combat vet has it to some extent. To welcome them home, and then take away one of their constitutional rights because of what they've been through is a travesty.
Ben
+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 -
quote:Originally posted by ljwrench
Something I've not seen discussed anywhere is this: How many veteran's are going to try and hide their PTSD and not get the treatment they need in order to avoid losing their constitutional rights?
Yup that's exactly why I'm hiding it I would hide it if I had PTSD.0 -
They most likely will all get their gun rights grabbed, and it will be a cold day in hell before they are able to get them restored. This is a well orchestrated way of taking thousands out of the gun ownership rolls. Many seem to doubt this, but I do believe we will see it come to pass very soon now. 0 -
Beth...this is EXACTLY why I've refused to see mental health folks in the past and I can guarantee you that soldiers will not be seeking help in the future...all b/c of this issue. I am thankful that I saw this day coming a very long time ago! 0 -
I'm screwed. [:(] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by sarge_3ad
I'm screwed. [:(]
No you are not Sarge...I've got your back.0 -
Hey, Sarge;
Don't sweat it. We ALL are screwed...and if we don't hang together...surely we will all hang separately.
I care NOT what brings people to their senses regarding the Beast.just that they do so.
We that support and defend the Constitution are the best the world has to offer...and no scum-sucking, Beast-whorshipping, big-government army can defeat us.0 -
quote:Originally posted by sarge_3ad
I'm screwed. [:(]
I'm right there with you![:(]0 -
Call me crazy ( Some already do ) But if all Veterans are banned from owning guns what makes the goverment (THINK) we won't buy them the same way criminals do??? Really a stupid waste of tax payers money. Then again congress is a waste of tax money. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by fishermanben
Show me a combat veteran, and I'll show you somebody that has to deal with what they saw, and how the war changed them everyday for the rest of their lives.
some shouldn't own guns. I knew a vet that would get blackout drunk, and hide in his bedroom with a loaded .45. It was my buddy's dad, and when he got that way, everyone would have to leave the house.
Call it PTSD, call it whatever, but every combat vet has it to some extent. To welcome them home, and then take away one of their constitutional rights because of what they've been through is a travesty.
Ben
Amen Brother!
How many veterans with PTSD have inappropriately used a firearm in the commission of a crime? None that I know of.
Heck we got all kinds of laws now, seems that they are only selectively enforced. Seems that this is a selective law that will be enforced.
Shameful of our government, time to throw all of those crooked bums out and start afresh.0 -
quote:Originally posted by A J Christ
quote:Originally posted by fishermanben
Show me a combat veteran, and I'll show you somebody that has to deal with what they saw, and how the war changed them everyday for the rest of their lives.
some shouldn't own guns. I knew a vet that would get blackout drunk, and hide in his bedroom with a loaded .45. It was my buddy's dad, and when he got that way, everyone would have to leave the house.
Call it PTSD, call it whatever, but every combat vet has it to some extent. To welcome them home, and then take away one of their constitutional rights because of what they've been through is a travesty.
Ben
Amen Brother!
How many veterans with PTSD have inappropriately used a firearm in the commission of a crime? None that I know of.
Heck we got all kinds of laws now, seems that they are only selectively enforced. Seems that this is a selective law that will be enforced.
Shameful of our government, time to throw all of those crooked bums out and start afresh.
I can take that question one step ferther!
How many Vets with PTSD have CWP's????????????
I know I have one and I not only have a diagnosis of PTSD I have a rateing from the VA for it!
I have had an arrest for a gun related thing (in California of course[:(](nobody was shot, I only brought a gun out)) but all charges were dropped agaist me as it was deemed self defence in protecting my home!
There are also many Vets with PTSD that hold FFL's!
And the VA and the military can in reality post any combat deployed veteran tagged as haveing PTSD in some form!0 -
I say if this comes into effect that all vets that buy guns illegaly
convert them to full auto. If we're already crazy what better defence then we don't know better, Congress said so.0 -
I say, let the first one come to my house......I won't just hand em over. 0 -
So, let's say you are a VET that falls into this catagory. What happens to all the guns you already own.......assuming you had a collection before the bill passed 0
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