Tw o P51s crash at Oshkosh today
One crashed in flames with the pilot killed. The other nosed over with tail chopped off and pilot injured.
From the photos it looks like the former was doing a low pass with gear up. It collided with the second P51 in landing configuration.
From the photos it looks like the former was doing a low pass with gear up. It collided with the second P51 in landing configuration.
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thats a shame, they dont make them like that anymore.
prayers for the families0 -
Sad for the men and the aircraft. Both are irreplacable to the people that love them.[:(] 0 -
I regretfully believe that it is time to stop flying these WWII birds. They are getting rarer all the time, and I would hate to see the last P-51 auger in[:(] 
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This was sent to me a while back and for some reson it's still tucked away
on one oif my b/u drives. It's a pretty good read.
October 16 -- Allied Ace, Axis Ace, and a Rock Star
This weekend was the Marina Air Faire at the Marina airport (KOAR) just north of Monterey. This is a great air show for a couple reasons... first, it's very small. Second, they have an unbelievable sample of planes that show up (F4U Corsair, P51-A Mustang, P51-D Mustangs, ME 109, Hawker Hurricane, Steermans, Wacos...). Third and most awesome of all, they bring in a bunch of the WWII pilots. Imagine seeing Bob Goebel standing next to "The Dutchman"... Incredible show.
My friend, Steve Browne, and I were lucky enough (for a sizable donation) to get a seat at the Aces dinner after the show. We were seated next to Mike Karatsonyi (an Axis Hungarian ace) for ~20 minutes before being told we were at the wrong table and transferred to Bob Goebel's table.
Mike Karatsonyi is a great guy with a very interesting perspective on being a fighter ace in WWII. Mike was the first Axis ace I have ever met, and one of the most interesting aces overall. He talked about flying the ME 109s against the P51s and P38s. Mike became an ace by downing 2 B17s, 2 P51s, and 2 P38s. His last victory was against a P51 only seconds before the P51's wingman shot him out of the sky. He talked about being in a spin towards the ground with the 109 "coffin" cockpit on fire, the canopy blown, and using every ounce of strength he had to fight the Gs and undo the harness that would free him from the ME 109 only seconds before the 109 hit the ground in a ball of flames. He also talked about knowing they lost the war at the very instant they entered. He said many times he and 6 other ME 109s would be in the sky and have to "hit and run" groups of up to 40 P51s. Mike also talked about meeting up with the Astronaut, Gordon "Gordo" Cooper many years after the war. He said Cooper talked about a time during the war when the allies captured a field full of ME 109s. Cooper was one of the selected pilots chosen to take up a 109 and find the advantages over the P51. Apparently, after crashing 3 109s on take-off, the CO pulled the plug and would not allow any more ALLIED pilots to take up 109s! Not one allied pilot in that group got off the ground successfully. The plane had too much power, too little rudder, and too narrow of landing gear. Amazing stories.
So then we transferred to Bob Goebel's table where we sat with him for the remainder of dinner and beyond. Bob is a wonderful man with all his faculties, wit, and charm. Bob also had very interesting stories about fighting over Europe, and what went through your brain while fighting in the air. He stated that only once did he ever kill another pilot, and it was a complete accident. He shot up a 109 and did not see the canopy pull through the smoke for a second. He lifted his finger off the trigger, but the bullets took another second before hitting the plane. It was in that second the pilot of the 109 bailed out and was shot by the trailing bullets. He spoke of a "gentleman's war" in the air that included an unwritten respect for the enemy pilots. It was very interesting to see he and Mike Karatsonyi talk together, laugh and joke. Each pilot had an enormous amount of respect for the other.
I asked Bob Goebels about flying the P51. He actually flew both 'B' and 'D' models. He said they both performed the same, and handled the same, but there was one big difference... When the 'B' model was in more than a 4G maneuver, and you fired the guns, they would jam; and could not be un-jammed until the plane was back on the ground. This was a big problem in a dogfight. He said more than once he would be chasing down a 109 and jam his guns up. He said the only thing to do was to keep chasing and let the guy think he got away! He also talked about the P51 needing to be manhandled. He said a good portion of the time in aerial combat; he was blinded by the G-force and was constantly on the verge of blacking out. Even though the P51 is considered a finesse plane, it still required two very strong arms to whip is across the sky and do all the things the plane was famous for. I believe this to be law considering the source ... a guy who shot down 11 ME 109s and FW 190s.
So if all this were not enough... Bob keeps talking about the current owner of "The Dutchman" (which is actually just a repaint of another 'D' model), Brian. So mid-way through dinner... Brian shows up... Brian Adams, who turns out not to be the rock star. Brian keeps his P51 in Hollister with a group of 6 other P51s, including one of the few P51-A's left in existence (which is really a 'D' with an 'A' data plate dug out of the ice in Alaska... another post). So I asked him about a time in April of this year when I was flying into Hollister... It was my first true solo trip out of the pattern of my home airport. I was flying from WVI to Hollister, and then on to Salinas for a little practice. So... I get into the left-downwind for Hollister 24, when it dawns on me, there is a P51 in front of me, and a B17 in front of him! And finally, another P51 behind me! And me... in a rented Cherokee! Needless to say, I had to jump on the radio and utter complete gibberish in my excitement. They all laughed and were very kind to the student in their midst. Well... low and behold; one of those was Brian Adams in his P51. He then told of a similar story with him on solo over Castle with a couple B52s.
We spent hours laughing and talking about P51s and other war birds. It was the coolest hanger flying I have ever done. Still funny, after about 2 hours of listening to Bob tell war stories, Bob and Brian find out I have a Citabria... So here I am with a P51 Ace, and a rock star who owns a P51... and they want to hear all about my Citabria!!! About that time, Mike Karatsonyi heads over to poke jabs at Goebel, and decides he wants to hear about the Citabria! I could not make this stuff up if I tried. They were all bummed out to hear that my plane was in WVI, and not KOAR. Karatsonyi still flies and was itching to get up in my Citabria. It was then that I was seriously regretting those 3 glasses of wine I had. How cool would that have been to go up with a Axis Ace in a Citabria... Next year, I will have my Citabria there.
Alas... it had to end sometime. We actually closed out the restaurant with the wait staff graciously waiting on the side half listening to all the great stories. In the end, Brian Adams bemoaned that he hardly ever has people to fly with, at which point I told him I would fly as wingman in my little Citabria with him anytime.0 -
OLD FOOL most of the P-51's flying today are freshly built, not WW2 relics. 0 -
Shoot one of my friend went there. 0 -
It looks like the fatal P51 slashed through the turtledeck of the surviving plane with his prop just aft of the cockpit.
It came very close to two fatalities.
I too hate to see these irreplaceable historical planes disappear.
Fortunately there are still a good few still flying.
"Cripes a Mighty" looks salvagable.0 -
I have an uncle that is there. That should be a story, although a story he will wish he couldnt tell. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by B17-P51
OLD FOOL most of the P-51's flying today are freshly built, not WW2 relics.
At Oshkosh one accident aircraft was a new build, while the other was an original WWII bird.0 -
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=3692
Here is link to the video. Looks like the Mustang in the rear was an A or B model. Didn't have the D model canopy.0 -
Not flying a P 51 is like not shooting a gun. 0 -
Makes it all the more remarkable that the guys who originally flew those birds were 18, 19, and 20 year olds. Today they are a handful for a very experienced pilot.
Saw an interesting show on History International last night about the P-38 raid that shot down Yamamota's Betty bomber. Those guys were all in their very very early 20's. Navigating across open ocean for more than 2 hours one-way, over shark infested waters. Not being disrespectful at all, but LOTS of responsibility for what were essentially kids.0
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