Good defense ammo...
...I think i'm goin' to Grices Gun Shop on satuday with akfanatik, what's a good home defense ammo in 9mm (I have a G17 so +P and +P+ ammo isn't a prob.) I live in the country with a few houses around so overpenetration isn't the top concern, I just want a reliable dependable ammo for stoppin' two legged intruders.
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"Good home defense ammo in 9mm" should be on a tombstone instead of a gun forum.
If you are in your home, there's no need to consider a small, concealable defense sidearm; a 12 guage is what you need. Preferably one with dual action bars to keep the forend from binding, a large capacity, and a ghost ring sight setup so you just have to point and click.
If you insist on relying on your handgunning skills for home defense, you may want to consider a larger caliber, some sort of reliable warning system, and getting a roommate with a shotgun.
That said; try MagSafe, Pow'rBall, Glaser Safety Slugs, Golden Sabers, or any load that has a heavy bullet of sturdy (not FMJ) construction.0 -
147-gr (145?) hollowpoints are good if you're limited to 9mm. 0 -
Hydra Shok. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by gunnut505
"Good home defense ammo in 9mm" should be on a tombstone instead of a gun forum.
Tell that to all the people killed by the 9mm over the last century....0 -
+ 1 to the shotgun. Check a police cruiser. Around here they use #4 buck. Causes a lot of damage to the bad guy but won't penetrate his car, two gas pumps and kill the owner of the convenience store he/she is there to save. 0 -
I agree with the Federal Hyda-Shok! Its a good man stopper for the gun specified. A glock 17 in 9mm. Winchester silvertips are good also. Any good premium defensive ammo will work well for you in 9mm.
Hornady Tap is a hot topic in all the gun articles anymore, you might want to take a look at that also.
A good defensive hollowpoint is what you need for defense. Speed in the ++ catagories means overpenetration to me.0 -
stick with +p or +P+ in 115 or 124 gr only
That is plenty deady.
no matter what, do not use 147 gr, slow ammo.
That is what gave the 9mm its bad rep
I bought a bunch from cdnn for a song a few years ago
I like any of the federal, remington , or winchester JHP that meet above0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsavo303
stick with +p or +P+ in 115 or 124 gr only
That is plenty deady.
no matter what, do not use 147 gr, slow ammo.
That is what gave the 9mm its bad rep
I bought a bunch from cdnn for a song a few years ago
I like any of the federal, remington , or winchester JHP that meet above
Totally agree.0 -
Corbon or Triton are among some of the best loads I have some 115Gr+P+, Rem Golden Saber is also good expanding ammo as is Federal's Hydra Shok. I prefer either the 115gr or 124 gr bullet weights for the 9MM. Of course shot placement is the key element to any self defense ammo. Safe Shooting!! 0 -
yes, a 115 gr @ 1350 fps (4" bbl glock 19 with +P+) is almost .357 sig performance, and more managable.
explain to me how is that a bad choice?
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
quote:Originally posted by gunnut505
"Good home defense ammo in 9mm" should be on a tombstone instead of a gun forum.
Tell that to all the people killed by the 9mm over the last century....0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsavo303
stick with +p or +P+ in 115 or 124 gr only
That is plenty deady.
no matter what, do not use 147 gr, slow ammo.
That is what gave the 9mm its bad rep
I bought a bunch from cdnn for a song a few years ago
I like any of the federal, remington , or winchester JHP that meet above
Is that because it may fail to open sufficiently to cause the desired damage?
If so, I've been laboring under a misconception, and as much as I hate being wrong, I'd hate being dead even worse. I mean I assume I'd hate being dead.0 -
nothing handheld is perfectly reliable, and you also have 15 more if you need em.
that is more power than a 45acp load, but everyone acts like that is a thunderbolt from zuess0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsavo303
nothing handheld is perfectly reliable, and you also have 15 more if you need em.
that is more power than a 45acp load, but everyone acts like that is a thunderbolt from zuess
I still didn't get an answer about 147-grainers.
Help a brotha out. Why are these undesirable?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Colonel Plink
quote:Originally posted by tsavo303
stick with +p or +P+ in 115 or 124 gr only
That is plenty deady.
no matter what, do not use 147 gr, slow ammo.
That is what gave the 9mm its bad rep
I bought a bunch from cdnn for a song a few years ago
I like any of the federal, remington , or winchester JHP that meet above
Is that because it may fail to open sufficiently to cause the desired damage?
If so, I've been laboring under a misconception, and as much as I hate being wrong, I'd hate being dead even worse. I mean I assume I'd hate being dead.
The 147 grain 9mm is too slow and it just acts like FMJ ammo. Compare the 9mm (which is .355) to the .357 magnum and to the .38 special +P. The 9mm is not weak, just use the right ammo.
Here is some info from Corbon's website:
9 MM LUGER+P 125 GR. JHP 1250FPS/434FTLBS 4.0" barrel
357 MAG 125 GR. JHP 1400FPS/544FTLBS 4.0" barrel
38 SPEC +P 125 GR. JHP 1125FPS/351FTLBS 4.0" barrel
And the 357 is out of a 4" barrel, which very few people carry for CCW plus you only get 6 or 7 shots with lots of recoil. Now, check the 9mm numbers and you will see that it will give you about 80% of the power of a .357 but with lots more shots and lots less recoil. There is nothing wrong with carrying a 9mm for self defense, just don't carry FMJ or 147 grain ammo. I personally carry a 9mm Sig P229 about 80% of the time, loaded with Corbon or Gold Dots. The other 20% is a Bersa Concealed Carry .380, but I just ordered a Keltec PF-9 to replace that after I read an article about it that chrono'd the 9mm ammo out of it:
Extreme Shock EPR 115 1226
Cor-Bon Glaser Blue 80 1547
Cor-Bon JHP Plus P 115 1298
Cor-Bon PowRBall 100 1390
Cor-Bon DPX 115 1219
International Cartridge HP 100 1123
That is definitely enough of a step up from the Bersa 380 to justify switching to the PF-9 as a pocket gun.0 -
Over the years, I have come to conclude that nearly any caliber or type of firearm, with nearly any ammunition is good "self defense" stuff.
I think the absolutely most important self defense criteria is being able to actually shoot someone, and then to quickly put bullets into one's assailant.
Most of the times that you are threatened to the point of justifying the use of deadly force, the best option to avoid your own injury or taking the life of another is feets. As in "feets, do yo' stuff" or "beat feet" - that would be, running away.
Doug0 -
This is from a long article by Ayoob:
This resulted in the FBI Wound Ballistics Workshop of 1988 in Quantico, Virginia. Among those present were Dr. Martin Fackler, head of wound ballistics research for the US Army's medical training center, Letterman Institute. Fackler had developed an improved ballistic gelatin model that he had scientifically correlated to swine muscle tissue, which in turn is comparable to human muscle tissue. He hypothesized that wound depth was much more important than previously thought, and recommended ammunition that could send a bullet at least twelve inches into his ballistic gelatin.
The FBI agreed. By this point, the 9mm semiautomatic pistol had ascended to dominance over the six-shot service revolver in the police world, and the FBI adopted a heavy, slow moving 9mm bullet that weighed 147 grains and traveled at a subsonic velocity of less than 1000 feet per second.
Even this did not work terribly well. The bullet often went deep, but also frequently failed to expand reliably, and penetrated too far. Most departments that adopted it were so disappointed in the street results that they either changed ammunition or went to more powerful pistols.
Experience has taught police that what actually happens on the street is more important than what happens in the artificial environment of the laboratory. The 9mm round now acknowledged to work the best is a 124-grain to 127-grain high tech hollow point at a velocity of 1250 feet per second. NYPD, with some 30,000 officers carrying this type of ammo, the Speer Gold Dot +P 124-grain, is happy with the performance of its 9mm service pistols. Ditto the Orlando, Florida, Police Department, which uses the Winchester Ranger 127-grain +P+ in their standard issue 9mm SIGs.0 -
Thanks. 0 -
147gr bullets have reliability problems.
115 and 124gr bullets
Hydrashoks
Golden Sabres
Gold Dots0 -
quote:Originally posted by sav99
Hydra Shok.
+10 -
quote:"Good home defense ammo in 9mm" should be on a tombstone instead of a gun forum.
That is just absolute BS! If you are comfortable with a 9mm handgun over a 45 or 357 or even a shotgun, use it for home defense. There is some great, very lethal, controlled penetration ammo out there for 9mm that makes it a great self-defense round. Check these guys out. I can vouch for their stuff. Very expensive, but in a life and death situation, who's gonna count the cost?
http://www.extremeshockusa.com/cgistore/store.cgi?page=/new/product_info.html&setup=1&cart_id=0 -
In 1988, there was a problem with the 147 grain ammo (147 Silvertips were notorious, iirc). Since then, bullet technology has advanced a bit, and 147's are supposed to be more reliable, particularly the bonded jacket designs.
That being said, my preferred 9mm load is 124+P Gold Dots.0 -
Due to concerns for legal issues, replaced Glasers for Hydrashocks in all my defensive guns. 0 -
My Choice. 
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quote:Originally posted by Polite Psycho
Due to concerns for legal issues, replaced Glasers for Hydrashocks in all my defensive guns.
What concerns would those be?0 -
Perhaps you missed the point of the post, racking a shotgun when an intruder has entered your residence is a scary noise, and with the advantage of not having to use a gun that can be hidden in a nightgown pocket, with a safety, and myriad other things that could happen trying to "aim"; why not use a shotgun as a HOME defense weapon instead of a pistol. It's not a carry piece inside the HOME, no matter what you wear on duty, why not give yourself all the edge you can?
As far as all the people killed in the last century, blah blah; lots more Europeans have been shot with a 9mm similarly, more Mexicans are shot with .380s & 38Supers, and more Americans are shot by lotsa calibers, what exactly was the point? Were they shot defending their homes? Didn't they have shotguns?
I'd much rather send a column of #7 shot down a hallway than a coupla rapid shots into the wall, but my backup bedside piece is an 8-shot .357Mag. with a 4" barrel. That's after you get through the dog.0 -
quote: Poor shooters tend to lean towards a shotgun.
You mean smart shooters tend towards shotgun right? I do very well with my P220, however if I can get to a shotgun I'd opt towards the shotgun everytime due to the massasive trauma, stopping power, lack of penatrating your walls, and not having to be nearly as precise as a handgun.
Shotgun are simply far better defense guns then pistols.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Kodiakk
quote: Poor shooters tend to lean towards a shotgun.
You mean smart shooters tend towards shotgun right? I do very well with my P220, however if I can get to a shotgun I'd opt towards the shotgun everytime due to the massasive trauma, stopping power, lack of penatrating your walls, and not having to be nearly as precise as a handgun.
Shotgun are simply far better defense guns then pistols.
When I was a rookie cop, my FTO told me that my handgun was meant to be used to fight my way back to my cruiser to get the shotgun. Always thought that was good advice.0 -
Cor-Bon 115 JHP +P
Cor-Bon 124 JHP +P0 -
I were thinking that if u really like subsonic,maybe using softer lead would solve the expansion issue ?
with the 147-gr (145?) hollowpoints0 -
quote:racking a shotgun when an intruder has entered your residence is a scary noise,
Yeah, and in a dark house the sound gives away your position. If that intruder has serious bad intentions, after the "scary sound" a shot will be coming YOUR way. If someone comes into my house with bad intentions, the first sound I want him to hear is a really loud BOOM.0
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