Pics of my newest project.
Well with the price of ammo going up and up and UP [V] I thought I would build something cheep to shoot and fairly unique. I decided to do a 10/22 pistol. Well I finally got all the parts together and started on it this afternoon.
I used and old stock (free) I got from buddy that someone had choped the back off. I took one of my beat up BBLs and gave it a cut down to 8" but I think I am going to cut it back to somewhere between 5" and 6" to make it look bette with my suppressor on it. I am going to get some kind of longer AR flash hider to keep on there when my suppressor is not on it.
I am going to build some kind of stock that has a more natural grip, most likely something kinda like the one on my under folder I built (that is still not done [:p]).
Once all that is done I am going to do some kind of refinish on the whole gun to make it look real nice.
Keep in mind I just did a little chopping to get it together for now. I will be getting the BBL crowned and threaded in the next couple weeks. The stock will take a bit longer since I will have to wait until my new gun room is built and I have the rest of my tools.
Here is the under folder I refered to:
I used and old stock (free) I got from buddy that someone had choped the back off. I took one of my beat up BBLs and gave it a cut down to 8" but I think I am going to cut it back to somewhere between 5" and 6" to make it look bette with my suppressor on it. I am going to get some kind of longer AR flash hider to keep on there when my suppressor is not on it.
I am going to build some kind of stock that has a more natural grip, most likely something kinda like the one on my under folder I built (that is still not done [:p]).
Once all that is done I am going to do some kind of refinish on the whole gun to make it look real nice.
Keep in mind I just did a little chopping to get it together for now. I will be getting the BBL crowned and threaded in the next couple weeks. The stock will take a bit longer since I will have to wait until my new gun room is built and I have the rest of my tools.
Here is the under folder I refered to:
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Since I did not do a Quote the previous post is now missing. This post may seem out of place but it stands true.
I just got home and it looks like some things have gone bad here.
Well fist off this post had one intent and that was to show off my new project just as the title states. I did not know it would have this effect. I have enjoyed reading about others new guns and projects on here and I know other have found my past projects nice. It is really that simple.
After haveing some people say that what I had done was illegal I thought I would see where it would go from there. I tried to create some stimulating conversation and it seemed to work for a while. I was wondering what in my post made them think I had "cut down" a RIFLE, or done something eles illegal. In the past I have posted and seen others post similar style firearms and have not been told it was illegal. I did not have a single person say my AR-15 pistol was illegal when I posted that build. I did not have to state how it was made, pepole assumed it was legal, why should I think this is any different? I could be wrong but I have not seen anyone beating up people posting AK or HK pistols, why should mine be different?
On another board I read I posted this same post to see what would happen and made a general statement about that on there. The fist poster just said I should delete the post. the second response was this "I assume you used a virgin receiver registered as a pistol which would of course make this a perfectly legal build. I have no reason to believe otherwise but I'm sure some folks will be concerned about that". It is the first part of that second sentence that is the way I feel, "I have no reason to believe otherwise".
I did not intend for things to go bad here, but it seems that it has. I hold no ill will or bad feelings about what anyone said. I am not offended by opinions, but towards the end things lean toward personal attacks and that I do not care for. I am truely sorry if I have made anyone feel bad.
I do tend to get frustrated when people even after knowing that things are legal still think there is something wrong.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
Since I did not do a Quote the previous post is now missing. This post may seem out of place but it stands true.
I just got home and it looks like some things have gone bad here.
Well fist off this post had one intent and that was to show off my new project just as the title states. I did not know it would have this effect. I have enjoyed reading about others new guns and projects on here and I know other have found my past projects nice. It is really that simple.
After haveing some people say that what I had done was illegal I thought I would see where it would go from there. I tried to create some stimulating conversation and it seemed to work for a while. I was wondering what in my post made them think I had "cut down" a RIFLE, or done something eles illegal. In the past I have posted and seen others post similar style firearms and have not been told it was illegal. I did not have a single person say my AR-15 pistol was illegal when I posted that build. I did not have to state how it was made, pepole assumed it was legal, why should I think this is any different? I could be wrong but I have not seen anyone beating up people posting AK or HK pistols, why should mine be different?
On another board I read I posted this same post to see what would happen and made a general statement about that on there. The fist poster just said I should delete the post. the second response was this "I assume you used a virgin receiver registered as a pistol which would of course make this a perfectly legal build. I have no reason to believe otherwise but I'm sure some folks will be concerned about that". It is the first part of that second sentence that is the way I feel, "I have no reason to believe otherwise".
I did not intend for things to go bad here, but it seems that it has. I hold no ill will or bad feelings about what anyone said. I am not offended by opinions, but towards the end things lean toward personal attacks and that I do not care for. I am truely sorry if I have made anyone feel bad.
I do tend to get frustrated when people even after knowing that things are legal still think there is something wrong.
Well, I can understand that you might be upset that so many were calling your project illegal.
But others took their knowledge of you to mean that you probably were not doing anything illegal. And there were several of those.
I don't know you at all (except to know that you live in my region), and your project looked to me like something that might not be legal for me to do. Somehow I had this idea that you had a class 3 license. Maybe if I'd been the first one to get back to your post I'd have been suave enough to ask you about legality in a way that didn't offend you. But more likely not. Anyway, several members did come at you bluntly, and in the end (after you'd been offended), I learned a few things.
I'm glad I learned those things from this post.
I think your trigger on this issue is set a little too light. Many of us don't know our laws all that well. I think you got some questions that were more confrontational than they needed to be. I think your response was more reactive than it needed to be.
Just my $0.02.
And again, I enjoyed the info. If I ever undertake a project, the first might be the 10-22 pistol, simply because it is cheap enough that I could screw it up and not cry about it later.0 -
Ok after a ton of reading over a the BATF site...
You can Make your own Gun...
You cannot use any foreign made Parts in its comstruction
You cannot " Sell It"
If it is ruled a short Barreled rifle... $200 stamp is required.
I looks like intent plays a big part to me...
Worse case senario on this one $200 stamp might be required!!!
Me I would call them...of course you might have to hand ove 200 kinkies or the gun...but I highly doubt either one....0 -
quote:Originally posted by tobefree
Ok after a ton of reading over a the BATF site...
You can Make your own Gun...
You cannot use any foreign made oarts in its comstruction
You cannot " Sell It"
If it is ruled a short Barreled rifle... $200 stamp is required.
I looks like intent plays a big part to me...
Worse case senario on this one $200 stamp might be required!!!
Me I would call them...of course you might have to hand ove 200 kinkies or the gun...but I highly doubt either one....
He bought the receiver as a pistol part and filled out the pistol form.
It's a pistol. It's a legal pistol.
That's about the most impressive thing I've learned all week.0 -
What in the **** is a pistol form!!!! I am totally lost!!!!! 0 -
I'm sure you know what you're doing but you may want to bookmark this link - just in case you get some visitors wearing black suits
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bail+bonds&btnG=Google+Search0 -
Cool! I got some questions but I'll start a new thread. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
Since I did not do a Quote the previous post is now missing. This post may seem out of place but it stands true.
I just got home and it looks like some things have gone bad here.
Well fist off this post had one intent and that was to show off my new project just as the title states. I did not know it would have this effect. I have enjoyed reading about others new guns and projects on here and I know other have found my past projects nice. It is really that simple.
After haveing some people say that what I had done was illegal I thought I would see where it would go from there. I tried to create some stimulating conversation and it seemed to work for a while. I was wondering what in my post made them think I had "cut down" a RIFLE, or done something eles illegal. In the past I have posted and seen others post similar style firearms and have not been told it was illegal. I did not have a single person say my AR-15 pistol was illegal when I posted that build. I did not have to state how it was made, pepole assumed it was legal, why should I think this is any different? I could be wrong but I have not seen anyone beating up people posting AK or HK pistols, why should mine be different?
On another board I read I posted this same post to see what would happen and made a general statement about that on there. The fist poster just said I should delete the post. the second response was this "I assume you used a virgin receiver registered as a pistol which would of course make this a perfectly legal build. I have no reason to believe otherwise but I'm sure some folks will be concerned about that". It is the first part of that second sentence that is the way I feel, "I have no reason to believe otherwise".
I did not intend for things to go bad here, but it seems that it has. I hold no ill will or bad feelings about what anyone said. I am not offended by opinions, but towards the end things lean toward personal attacks and that I do not care for. I am truely sorry if I have made anyone feel bad.
I do tend to get frustrated when people even after knowing that things are legal still think there is something wrong.
Lighten up. I think most everyone here was trying to be helpful...0 -
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quote:Originally posted by wallie
Wallie it's good to see you back in your classic form. You're really your best this way.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tobefree
What in the **** is a pistol form!!!! I am totally lost!!!!!
He transferred the receiver as a pistol, even though it was not at that point a pistol.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.0 -
My only question is WHY? You assembled what looks like a "Zip Gun" using a receiver that the manufacturer never sold as a pistol and then compare it to a Remington XP-100???
Unique might be a High Standard with a Custom flutted Barrel and custom grips to fit your hand, NOT taking a bunch of parts and assembling a POS that makes people the that like guns cringe.
Edited because I can't spell0 -
Did you look through Boyd's Gunstocks for a handle for that thing? You could get a damaged or otherwise reduce priced one in their Discount bin and customize it to fit. I suggest the Blaster model. I have one on my 10/22 rifle and it fits my hand well.
Just a thought on the project, and not the legality of it.0 -
Nwcid-
Just knowing you are a long time member and had most likely seen "rifle to pistol" post before ... I had a feeling you started out with an virgin aftermarket receiver ...
... If you had stated that in the first place, I doubt this thread would be nearly this long [B)]
I did a build like that years ago, before the 94 ban (52 ounce pistol rule) ... cut down a black fiberglass (Choate maybe?) pistol-griped stock and the barrel ... ran like a champ and with a 25 round mag it kinda looked like a HK MP5K [8D]
Have fun!0 -
Screw them all. It's a beaut.
I've built ..."several".....firearms from 10%-80% machined receivers....NO PAPERWORK.
If Uncle Sam wishes to confiscate all firearms he has paperwork on...dandy.
He doesn't know what I legally made with no paperwork. Thus why I never post pictures of them. People would post they are illegal as they are morons and don't know the law any better than those morons in ATF.
Phaaaaaaack 'em. It's a beautiful home made firearm in full compliance of applicable laws which will fulfill it's mission. Homeland Defense.0 -
OK I hope no one is reading me wrong here.... But
I have yet to see anything Ilegal at least as far as the making of the gun is concerned.
I am not to sure that transfering a weapon that is obviously a rifle and stating on the form that it is a handgun is not illegal.
Of course it could be said that, that whatever that is, is a hand gun, All I see is a pile of junk mounted to a nice receiver.
But I know one thing for sure if the info you fill in on that form don't jive you will get a knock on your door. And I know that for a fact for when I moved to my present location I accidently wrote down my old zip code which by the way was also wrong on my drivers license. Not only did I get a warning but so did the dealer that sold me the gun.... I had to return the gun and there it stayed until I got the zip code fixed on my license. So don't think that for a minute that big brother ain't watching you closely. I don't think for a minute that some sorehead on these threads won't turn your butt in if they see a post that is, shall we say potentially illegal. You can bet your bottom dollar that there is some anti-gun nut out reading post after stinking post to hang one of us....0 -
Like I said on my last post there was a large post that got deleted before my response. Things would make a lot more sense in my post but they still needed to be said. I was going to send that person a direct email but there is not one listed.
quote:Originally posted by tobefree
Ok after a ton of reading over a the BATF site...
You can Make your own Gun...
You cannot use any foreign made oarts in its comstruction
You cannot " Sell It"
If it is ruled a short Barreled rifle... $200 stamp is required.
I looks like intent plays a big part to me...
Worse case senario on this one $200 stamp might be required!!!
Me I would call them...of course you might have to hand ove 200 kinkies or the gun...but I highly doubt either one....
When ATF refers to making you own gun they are talking about buliding the reciever (part with serial number. This is very common in semi auto belt feed guns. It is also very common on AK's since you buy a "flat" which is not a reciever yet and then you bend it into a reciever. Doing what I did would be more properly call assembling a firearm. Same thing can be said about pepole that say they are building an AR-15 are really just assembling parts.
quote:What in the **** is a pistol form!!!! I am totally lost!!!!!
When you buy a firearm you fill out a 4473 for the transfer. On the paper it says what you are transfering, pistol, rifle, shotgun, reciever and I remember right it has to be done on NFA transfers as well. If you are buying a pistol you have to fill out a second form but I dont know the Form number, but it is currently on blue paper. Legaly have just a reciever transfered it is just that, it is not a rifle and it is not a pistol. Legaly at that point I could build a pistol or a rifle out of it. If I had put full stock and full bbl on the reciver FIRST then it would be a rifle and it would be ILLEGAL for me to put a short BBL and stock on it with out going NFA for a SBR (short bbl rifle) which also is illegal in my state. By filling out the pistol form as well my reciever will ALWAYS be a pistol. Say you buy a 1911 rifle that was complete (yes they make them) and later you wanted to buy a pistol slide to use with that reciever you would be breaking the law.
quote:My only question is WHY? You assembled what looks like a "Zip Gun" using a receiver that the manufacturer never sold as a pistol and then compare it to a Remington XP-100???
I am not sure what exactly a zip gun is but you are right the manufacture did not sell it as a pistol it does not meet the ATF's definition of one and had never been one. They did not sell it as a rifle either since it does not meet the ATF's definition of a rifle, and had never been one. It was sold as exactly what I LEGALY bought and had transferd to me and that is a reciever. If you dig up both the 4473 and the "pistol" form both say reciever and show the serial number.
At Brownells or Midway I can not find a single bolt action reciever (say a Remington used to assemble a pistol) that is listed as only a rifle or only a pistol.
quote:Unique might be a High Standard with a Custom flutted Barrel and custom grips to fit your hand, NOT taking a bunch of parts and assembling a POS that makes people the like guns cringe.
Well like I said this is the first step on a project. I wish all of my first steps would come out like the finished product.
Would it make you feel better had I just paid $700 for one that was already pretty like these ones http://www.magnumresearch.com/Browse.asp?Category=MagnumLite:Pistols . Or over $900 for one of the Volquartsen pistols.
OH and Wallie I have not forgoten about you. You are allowed to do whatever you want with your cannon. I assume it is on a form 4 right [:p]?0 -
Who can find the illegal gun, THIS IS A TEST. THIS MAY BE A TRICK. 0 -
Hmm all of them.... in some places Not Ohio [:D][:D][:D][:D] 0 -
How does that 308 pistol shoot?
In the eyes of the brady bunch all those pistols are illegal[:0]0 -
My critique is not based on the cost nor amount of money spent. It was mostly a question of WHY. Yes, I understand that this is the "prototype", but a man of your talent knows that the "Devil is in the details". Now I am also leaning toward "For What"? And before anyone jumps on me, I think we should be able to own anything we want with respect to firearms. What does one do with a scoped 10/22 pistol? Is there a rapid fire silhouette event I don't know about?
Maybe I just an old fuddy duddy - but just because I don't want one doesn't mean you can't build em to your hearts content.
I look forward to seeing the finished article0 -
I like nwcids projects.
They are examples of thinking outside the box.
Anyone can run down to their local gun shop and buy a Ruger MKIII pistol and a 10/22 just like thousands of people do every year.
But there are only a handfull of people who want something different and are willing to research out a project to come up with a true custom firearm.
you see custom street bikes/cars all the time and a person could ask the same questions about "WHY"? the most common answer is usually "Why Not"?0 -
quote:Originally posted by wallie
That's OK, Wallie. That's legal. It's called "circumcision". [:D]0 -
AS I mentioned in that other post, I read the AK pistols do not apply to that stupid rule about 10 American parts when it is assembled. You can have as many import parts as you want on an AK pistol.
BTW, that third from last picture has an unusual safety selector. Is that one a semi-auto? I don't think full auto pistol's are legal to create.0 -
Nwcid,
Way to go there......you make it SOUND like you just cut down a rifle. Were you just trying to see who knew the laws, or just stirring up crap?
Merc (who knows the laws......and it sounds like you followed them, even though you APPEARED to mislead people about how you made the gun....)0 -
None of those pistols pictured are illegal and most are for sale on many popular web sites. Many of the pics came from Vector Arms.
quote:Originally posted by Captplaid
AS I mentioned in that other post, I read the AK pistols do not apply to that stupid rule about 10 American parts when it is assembled. You can have as many import parts as you want on an AK pistol.
BTW, that third from last picture has an unusual safety selector. Is that one a semi-auto? I don't think full auto pistol's are legal to create.
Only some of those guns are mine most were pics pulled from online of legal pistols that are more comonly seen as rifles. The pic I belive you are talking about is the semi auto HK .308 pistol that is made by Vectory and that is where that pic came from. I am not up on all the laws about the HK's since I dont own anything like that yet, but I belive you can use any lower as it is not the serial numbered part and in no way affects the function.
quote:
Nwcid,
Way to go there......you make it SOUND like you just cut down a rifle. Were you just trying to see who knew the laws, or just stirring up crap?
Merc (who knows the laws......and it sounds like you followed them, even though you APPEARED to mislead people about how you made the gun....)
As I stated before I was not trying to start anything. I have been here for many years and have yet to "stir up crap" knowingly and dont plan on starting anytime soon. I have better things to do with my time.
I still do not feel that I was missleading, but I can see why some may think that. I know that I do have more stuff then many people on here and less then others but it was my bad in not saying that I didnt use a rifle. When I say cut down a beat up BBL I assumed others have spare ones laying around to since they are so cheep from people buying rifles then putting custom BBL's on them.
quote:
My critique is not based on the cost nor amount of money spent. It was mostly a question of WHY. Yes, I understand that this is the "prototype", but a man of your talent knows that the "Devil is in the details". Now I am also leaning toward "For What"? And before anyone jumps on me, I think we should be able to own anything we want with respect to firearms. What does one do with a scoped 10/22 pistol? Is there a rapid fire silhouette event I don't know about?
Maybe I just an old fuddy duddy - but just because I don't want one doesn't mean you can't build em to your hearts content.
I look forward to seeing the finished article
It has no real use like most pistols of this sort. I have many other firearms and sometimes projects are just for fun which this one is. It is cheep to shoot and is a cheep project to build. I do not know of any events that these guns are used in but since there are some nice expensive ones being made maybe there is.0 -
"It has no real use like most pistols of this sort. I have many other firearms and sometimes projects are just for fun which this one is. It is cheep to shoot and is a cheep project to build. I do not know of any events that these guns are used in but since there are some nice expensive ones being made maybe there is."
Kinda like this topic totally worthless!!!0 -
I'm not about to question someone's WHY when it comes to guns!
I have a stainless barrel on my AR......and a Gyrojet gun that I'll most likely never shoot! (Rounds are $50+.....IF you can find any!)
Merc
Have fun!0 -
Nwcid +1
[8D][8D][8D]
But you need to pretty it up.
[:p][:p][:p]
Yep, a few dropped jaws.
Virgin reciever comes to your FFL, you can 4473 it as a pistol or rifle, prior to completion.
Also prefectly leagal to sell after you get tired of it too.0 -
My concern is that had that gun been shown without full explanation (as it initially was)of how it was made some numbnut would have thought "I can do that" and gone out and cut down a 10/22 into the same thing thinking it was legal. Hence those that do not know you that well really had a legitimate reason for questioning if it was legal. While your gun IS NOT illegal it easily could be done illegally. I don't think anyone was condemning you as much as trying to watch out for you. 0
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