Is it legal to sell a completed "kit" firearm?
I'm aware that it's okay to build any legal firearm for your own use or collection. I've built several over the years, mostly derringers and target pistols. However, I was under the impression that it is against the law to sell a completed (built) "kit", or homemade firearm. Did I dream that, does it only apply to certain states, or am I correct that you simply can sell one without breaking Federal law?
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Kit built like an AK or FAL parts kit where you buy a reciever and build one up? Or all home made, reciever included? The first is definately legal to sell - the "gun" is hte reciever, adn that was bought via a FFL. Not sure about all home made... 0 -
quote:Originally posted by iwannausername
Kit built like an AK or FAL parts kit where you buy a reciever and build one up? Or all home made, reciever included? The first is definately legal to sell - the "gun" is hte reciever, adn that was bought via a FFL. Not sure about all home made...
No, nothing that requires an FFL (like an FAL receiver). Let's use a Cobray .45 derringer kit as an example. Some kits do not include the breech plate, others the side plates, so you have to make those parts. I was also referring to building from plans (making each and every part).0 -
You are not dreaming, Hobbyguy.
Taken from ATF website;(A6) Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle? [Back]
With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale0 -
Check out the welding "hack job" on this one being offered here on GB:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=68354514
I just can't imagine that $65 is worth the time they could spend in jail, or the fines that could be imposed. When I put one of these pieces of crap together about five years ago, I did it by the book and used the best materials available. Although it looked like a factory production piece when I was finished, I didn't feel that it was even safe to shoot. I destroyed it with a mallet and chucked it in a lake for good measure. Actually had more fun beating on it, than I did building it. Real junk. [V]0 -
The only way you can sell a firearm you made (i.e. you machined/welded/bent the receiver) is if you get a manufacturers license, which as I understand it will run you from $500 to $1000 per year, depending on how large of an outfit you are. This, of course, would only make sense if you were doing this as a business, not a hobby. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by HobbyGuy
Check out the welding "hack job" on this one being offered here on GB:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=68354514
I just can't imagine that $65 is worth the time they could spend in jail, or the fines that could be imposed. When I put one of these pieces of crap together about five years ago, I did it by the book and used the best materials available. Although it looked like a factory production piece when I was finished, I didn't feel that it was even safe to shoot. I destroyed it with a mallet and chucked it in a lake for good measure. Actually had more fun beating on it, than I did building it. Real junk. [V]
Back when you could get the complete kit I almost ordered a dozen of them. I had a machinist lined up that would complete them including parkerizing. My plan was to give them as gifts to friends for tackle box guns.0 -
I am not sure of all the rules but there are LEGAL ways of selling "homemade" firearms. This is a big deal on the 1919a4 boards since lots of people build them from 80% RHSP (part that is the "reciever"). I know that isnt much help but I do know those guy do it and there are many other "home built" guns like those that can and are sold Legaly. I can not find any FACT to back that up though. 0 -
Thanks John, but that would still be using an FFL for the receiver. I'm not referring to a legal build on a new receiver. One of those types could legally be transferred through an FFL. 0 -
Not sure of the legality, but did see a homemade pistol "no markings"
sell at auction awhile back. Was made on the order of a Ruger MKII
but wayyyy uglier.0 -
quote:Originally posted by HobbyGuy
Check out the welding "hack job" on this one being offered here on GB:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=68354514
I emailed the seller asking if the gun has a #, can they ship it directly to me, and is it legal to sell.
Here is the response:
quote:No it does not have a serial number.
It must be shipped to an FFL dealer.
We are an FFL dealer so it is legal for us to sell. It was obtained from the NYS Warren County Sheriff's Office (Law Enforcement Agency). It is your responsibility to check Federal & State laws regarding legal possession.
Thank You,
Kathie0 -
I wrote to them also and heard back from "Kathie" (a mindless twit). I've also contacted my "friend" at the DOJ and after he viewed it was advised:
"That seller is in for a world of trouble. It's too bad that some people can't be helped and your attempt was honorable. The seller will end up finding out the hard way when they are contacted by a BATF agent and shut down. Then the court process will begin and their lives will be all but ruined in short order."
That pretty much summed up my expectations. I've found that many gun dealers in New York are the same (stubborn and/or stupid). If their brains were made of dynamite, there wouldn't be enough to blow their nose. Sad thing, really. I hate trying to help stupid people, as it's rarely appreciated. [:(]0 -
I'm shocked! [:0] The mindless twit ended the auction! [:0] Could it have been something I said? [:0] Chalk one up for "HobbyGuy"! Protector of the stupid, savior of many morons and smarter than the average bear.[:D][:D] I'm going prospecting for the afternoon, now knowing that the world is safe (at least temporarily). [:D] 0 -
I just got another email from Kathie.
quote:Disregard our last email. We have removed the firearm from Gunbroker. Until we can determine if it is legal to sell under Federal & State Laws we have decided not sell this firearm.
Thank You,
Kathie0 -
I was just going to say that the auction was ended, when my phone rang. I see you both already know.
Why did GB allow it to be listed in the first place?0 -
I like to see pawn shops make a BIG mistake like that. They probably paid some drug addict $20 for it, thinking they could resell it for 3x's that amount after the crackhead didn't come back for it. Now they're stuck with a piece of non-saleable junk that isn't even safe to shoot. Serves them right. [^] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by pistoljim
I was just going to say that the auction was ended, when my phone rang. I see you both already know.
Why did GB allow it to be listed in the first place?
It's not truly GunBroker's job to police the sellers auctions (the BATF does that already). Any seller "worth his weight in salt" should know what he/she is selling and that it is legal to offer it. Otherwise, the seller will pay the consequences. [;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by HobbyGuy
Thanks John, but that would still be using an FFL for the receiver. I'm not referring to a legal build on a new receiver. One of those types could legally be transferred through an FFL.
An 80% reciver is NOT a firearm or serial numbered. Well at least not on the guns that use them like the 1919, Maxim, Browning M2, ect.
80% receiver + kit + time and labor to finish reciever = very cool guns with no FFL transfer involved.
If I remember correctly transfering home build guns has something to do with taxs. When Manufactures build guns they pay a tax on complete guns, if you build a gun and sell it the Government gets no tax = unhappy tax collector. If you buy an AR lower and an AR upper and put them together you "should" save about $50-70 since the Manufactuer did not complete the gun.0
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