A serrious poll !
Given the light of the VT shooting and the fact that this non-citizen of this country (althought here legally) legally purchased the guns used, raises my question about the constitution!
The Preamble states:
" We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
My question is: Does this also give our rights to non-citizens under what is written in the constitution?
To me personally what I highlighted in red is saying that the rights given to us are for our citizens only!
Now I'm not saying that non-citizens should not have some sort of protection! I am only saying that non-citizens should not be granted all the same rights that citizens are given (such as purchasing firearms)!
I also doubt that what I am saying would have prevented this as we all know that if a criminal wants a gun he will find a gun. But what I am saying is it would have made it a tiny bit more difficult!
What say Ya'll?
The Preamble states:
" We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
My question is: Does this also give our rights to non-citizens under what is written in the constitution?
To me personally what I highlighted in red is saying that the rights given to us are for our citizens only!
Now I'm not saying that non-citizens should not have some sort of protection! I am only saying that non-citizens should not be granted all the same rights that citizens are given (such as purchasing firearms)!
I also doubt that what I am saying would have prevented this as we all know that if a criminal wants a gun he will find a gun. But what I am saying is it would have made it a tiny bit more difficult!
What say Ya'll?
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I am surprised!
20 reads and no opinions on this?
It is a subject that affects us all!0 -
I don't think you could consider that a law since it is more less a pretext to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Actual laws would be stated after the pretext. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by sarge_3ad
I don't think you could consider that a law since it is more less a pretext to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Actual laws would be stated after the pretext.
I can understand that.
But it is a precurser to the original constitutional rights by our forefathers. And to me it is saying that these rights are for our citizens.
And again, I will not say that non-citizens should have no protection at all, just that I don't feel that they should be guarenteed all the same rights that a citizen has.
And after all a non-citizen is not suppost to vote and stuff like that, so why should we extend our other constitutional rights to them?0 -
FWIW, here is my opinion.
Non-citizens who are here legally should have basic human rights, but no rights of citizenship. They should not be discriminated against in housing, employment, etc. They should not be allowed to vote, own real property, purchase firearms, or participate in any government welfare programs. If uninsured and indigent, they should be eligible only for extreme emergency medical services unless paid for in full. They should be allowed to own vehicles, have a driver's license, and drive on public highways. They should be allowed to attend college, but with no grants, and no federally-insured student loans.
Non-citizens who are here illegally should be treated as what they are: Criminals. They should be arrested, prosecuted, imprisoned, and deported. Anchor babies get deported right along with their criminal parents.
If I were king, I would order the deportation of any illegal immigrant who made entry less than 50 years ago, and ALL his/her progeny.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
FWIW, here is my opinion.
Non-citizens who are here legally should have basic human rights, but no rights of citizenship. They should not be discriminated against in housing, employment, etc. They should not be allowed to vote, own real property, purchase firearms, or participate in any government welfare programs. If uninsured and indigent, they should be eligible only for extreme emergency medical services unless paid for in full. They should be allowed to own vehicles, have a driver's license, and drive on public highways. They should be allowed to attend college, but with no grants, and no federally-insured student loans.
Non-citizens who are here illegally should be treated as what they are: Criminals. They should be arrested, prosecuted, imprisoned, and deported. Anchor babies get deported right along with their criminal parents.
If I were king, I would order the deportation of any illegal immigrant who made entry less than 50 years ago, and ALL his/her progeny.
That is exactly what I am getting at.
I would never condone treating a legal non-citizen like an animal. But I in no way feel that they should be given our basic constitutional rights that we as citizens have.0 -
The problem is defining "We the people of the United States." Depending on political leanings, it could mean U.S. citizens (which is my take, FWIW) or simply people who happen to be in the United States -- illegals included. I suspect the Founding Fathers meant actual legal, law-abiding citizens, but what do I know? No end to this debate, I fear.[:(] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
FWIW, here is my opinion.
Non-citizens who are here legally should have basic human rights, but no rights of citizenship. They should not be discriminated against in housing, employment, etc. They should not be allowed to vote, own real property, purchase firearms, or participate in any government welfare programs. If uninsured and indigent, they should be eligible only for extreme emergency medical services unless paid for in full. They should be allowed to own vehicles, have a driver's license, and drive on public highways. They should be allowed to attend college, but with no grants, and no federally-insured student loans.
Non-citizens who are here illegally should be treated as what they are: Criminals. They should be arrested, prosecuted, imprisoned, and deported. Anchor babies get deported right along with their criminal parents.
If I were king, I would order the deportation of any illegal immigrant who made entry less than 50 years ago, and ALL his/her progeny.
+10 -
quote:Originally posted by git_r_done
Given the light of the VT shooting and the fact that this non-citizen of this country (althought here legally) legally purchased the guns used, raises my question about the constitution!
The Preamble states:
" We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
My question is: Does this also give our rights to non-citizens under what is written in the constitution?
To me personally what I highlighted in red is saying that the rights given to us are for our citizens only!
Now I'm not saying that non-citizens should not have some sort of protection! I am only saying that non-citizens should not be granted all the same rights that citizens are given (such as purchasing firearms)!
I also doubt that what I am saying would have prevented this as we all know that if a criminal wants a gun he will find a gun. But what I am saying is it would have made it a tiny bit more difficult!
What say Ya'll?
The government didn't give us any rights, we already had them, God given and all that you know
...
If you think the government gave you your rights, then it logically follows that they can take them away.
No disrespect GRD, but that is a dangerous mindset.0 -
Speaking of polls ... if these folks are in any way representative,
I think the results of polls in America will be somewhat skewed, or
screwed, as this pretty well demonstrates.[:D]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE0 -
+1 David... 0 -
I have to strongly disagree with parts of your statement Nunn. My wife is a green card legal resident alien. We have been married for thirty-eight years, and have spent most of that time here in the US. She has degrees from two American universities and has always worked, and you think she shouldn't be able to buy a house or own a gun? No one is going to argue that a non-citizen should be voting, and few would think it acceptable for them to get welfare, but why shouldn't people here legally be able to go hunting or defend themselves if they choose to do so? As an American citizen, I am not allowed to own certain real property in Mexico, and it rankles me as manifestly unfair. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Donld
I have to strongly disagree with parts of your statement Nunn. My wife is a green card legal resident alien. We have been married for thirty-eight years, and have spent most of that time here in the US. She has degrees from two American universities and has always worked, and you think she shouldn't be able to buy a house or own a gun? No one is going to argue that a non-citizen should be voting, and few would think it acceptable for them to get welfare, but why shouldn't people here legally be able to go hunting or defend themselves if they choose to do so? As an American citizen, I am not allowed to own certain real property in Mexico, and it rankles me as manifestly unfair.
It is fair.
If a person wanted those this enuff to care they should become a citzen.
I am in no way trying to degrade your wife. But why should a person reap the benifits that us citizens have and never care to become one themselves.
Like I said in the original statement, the stuff I highlighted in red on the preamble is talking about the people of the United States. And in reallity a resident alien is not part of the People of the United States.0 -
quote:Originally posted by git_r_done
quote:Originally posted by nunn
FWIW, here is my opinion.
Non-citizens who are here legally should have basic human rights, but no rights of citizenship. They should not be discriminated against in housing, employment, etc. They should not be allowed to vote, own real property, purchase firearms, or participate in any government welfare programs. If uninsured and indigent, they should be eligible only for extreme emergency medical services unless paid for in full. They should be allowed to own vehicles, have a driver's license, and drive on public highways. They should be allowed to attend college, but with no grants, and no federally-insured student loans.
Non-citizens who are here illegally should be treated as what they are: Criminals. They should be arrested, prosecuted, imprisoned, and deported. Anchor babies get deported right along with their criminal parents.
If I were king, I would order the deportation of any illegal immigrant who made entry less than 50 years ago, and ALL his/her progeny.
That is exactly what I am getting at.
I would never condone treating a legal non-citizen like an animal. But I in no way feel that they should be given our basic constitutional rights that we as citizens have.
+1 to all the above.0 -
I agree with most of what Nunn said except that I feel that a non citizens should be allowed to own and purchase guns. #1 what would happen to the non citizens who come over here for vacation to hunt? #2 Why shouldn't a non citizen have the right to own a gun in order to protect himself? - the cops cann't protect them or us. #3 We have some non citizens in our armed forces - but we shouldn't allow them to own a gun to hunt with or to protect themselves with? etc, etc. There are numerous other reasons that a non citizen should be allowed to own a gun. 0 -
i'm with nunn, all though it is wishful thinking
(fwiw)
I think there has been for to many yrs and to many people have been allowed come to this county as we all did way back way when our "four fathers" came. they wanted this country to in no way resemble the one they fled. i think this is where they went wrong and now to try and correct it is next to near impossible. I do not think that they could have foreseen what letting everyone anyone in would have lead to. Now we are stuck with it and there is no practical way out.0 -
I agree with Nunn with minor exceptions. I do not have a problem with foreigners owning property in America.
I do not have a problem with added restrictions to gun ownership to non-citizens. Wow. Many of us think gun control in some form or another is acceptable for legal or illegal non US citizens. Sounds to me as if we have a bargaining chip to trade with the liberals in Congress.
We'll agree to increased gun control for non US citizens if you'll concede....0 -
We'll agree to increased gun control for non US citizens if you'll concede.... maybe a national CCW permit recognized in all states (and Cook County) 0 -
quote:Originally posted by HobbyGuy
I agree 100% with nunn. [^]
And GRD, in regard to treating a legal non-citizen like an animal, I'm okay with that too. I dislike most people equally. [}:)]
Me too, on the Nunn agreement.0 -
South Korea Should be a candidate for our 51st State. 0 -
A number of non-citizens are members of our military. Should they not have the same rights? 0
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