.223 for deer??
I have a Remington VSSF in .223, and it has a 1/12 twist. I would usually use a larger caliber for deer, but recent changes in Tennessee's hunting laws now allows us to use .223 for deer. A 1/12 twist will stabilize a 55 grain bullet and smaller bullet. I would like to stay between 50 and 55 grain bullets for this task. If any one has experience hunting with a .223 on deer size game, what cartridge or bullet have you been using with success? Thanks
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I was just wondering the same thing the other day. 0 -
50 g v max......sound on deer upto 160lb, at 200/250yds, drop like a puppet with strings cut !! [;)] 0 -
No.[xx(] 0 -
SHOT-PLACEMENT!!!It (the .223) is but a beefed-up .22. If you think it's ok, be super careful with your shot. I personally, would NOT use it. .25/06 is about as light as i'd ever go. Something in the .30 cal. range is no-doubt considered optimum, by most hunters,as well as me.[;)] 0 -
223 works fine , you just have to be sure of your shot and keep the range within reason 0 -
I normally hunt with a .243. This year I did take one with my .223 this year. 55gr Nosler balistic tip dropped him as hard as my .243 100gr soft points have. Last year I made a nice 60yrd shot and got heart an lung but had to search for a while to find him. He ended up about 50yrds away in the brush. This year I put 55gr in the back of his head at 100yrds and he dropped in his tracks.
I would not use it for long shots beyond 200-250yrds.0 -
I have always hated this topic... I think the .223 is totally unethical as a big game round. I know a lot of deer lost with much more powerful rounds. Only a handful of people are good enough shots to be attempting 200 yard shots at deer with any caliber, and in my opinion noone should make those shots with a .223. .223 is great for varmints and plinking, but inadequate as a large game round. 0 -
it is plenty of gun. BUT you MUST place your shot. It is best reserved for those who can shoot accurately,..but in the right hands,..plenty. 0 -
I have taken plenty with my AR. Just keep the range within reason and put it either in their eye or in their ear. They drop like a rock. 0 -
Methinks I'll stay with my 257 Bob and my 30-30 0 -
I use 223 for deer.I shoot blackhills 52gr hp.Even with a body shot they don't go far.I feel if you need a big gun for a deer you should be spending time at the range. alot of hunters using big guns can't hit a deer 200yds because they flinch from the recoil from it. 0 -
Just roll the window down half way and rest the forearm on that [:D] 0 -
ladams,
" I have always hated this topic..."
It comes up every year before, during or after deer season. Maybe you should just avoid these topics and not get all worked up over nothing.
As JustC so aptly points out:
it is plenty of gun. BUT you MUST place your shot. It is best reserved for those who can shoot accurately,..but in the right hands,..plenty.
It is indeed plenty of cartridge especially when properly loaded and the shot is properly placed. But it is NOT for every hunter. This is absolutely the undeniable truth.
I have used the .223 Rem. loaded with the 60 gr. Nosler Partition for shots at moderate distances, usually from a bipod or off my pack and only when I have the shot placement. The deer dies on the spot.
"I know a lot of deer lost with much more powerful rounds."
That just goes to prove that even with large caliber cartridges, idiots can still make a bad shot and lose a deer. Just because you can buy a license doesn't make you Daniel Boone. There's no logic to your supposed argument.
Those of us who use and have used the .223 Rem. for deer hunting are good shots and ethical hunters, who are willing to walk away from bad shots, preferring instead to work for the best shots.
Best.0 -
I agree with nononsense 223 shooters usually practice shooting more than average hunters do. Some reasons being 223 ammo cheaper than others,plus you can shoot longer without pain in your shoulder. More practice equals better shooter,learn your gun and your ability. 0 -
I used my .223 Ruger Target model to take a huge doe last season.
Neck shot and she dropped like a rock.
Not for everyone.
I shoot several thousand rounds a year, so my confidence is good.
Placement is everything and wait for the shot.
Be prepared to Not Shoot if no good shot presents itself.0 -
I don't think it's enough cartridge to consistently take deer successfully. Wasn't it designed as a military cartridge with the intent to wound rather than kill. I may be wrong on that one but while I served in the marine corps we were told that if you wounded one man, it would take two more out of the fight to take care of that one.
Anyways. You can kill a deer with a .22 long rifle if the shot is placed right as some of your ego's seem to think. Problem is that some people have a difficult time deciding when to say when. If a big 24" heavy racked buck only presents a behind the shoulder shot at 200 yds are you capable of holding off or are you going to risk it? Hunting is a sport, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, obviously don't take the shot if it isn't there, I've passed on many with much more adequate calibers. But really, if you use a cartridge that is questionable such as the 223 you should question yourself. There are many fine calibers available and they give you good reasons to own more guns so why not jump up to a 257 roberts or a 2506?0 -
...Yep...this comes up all the time. I can only speak from one experience. I was in thick timber, where I knew a shot would be well under 100 yds. I used my Win. model 70 lightweight carbine with Speer 70 gr. semi spitzers. Yes, it's a target bullet, but it does have exposed lead at the nose. I shot a doe at the expected range, and she took off like a rocket. I found a snippet of cut hair, but no blood. Walked circles until I found her dead. Not a trace of blood on the outside, though her aorta was severed. She died quickly enough, but there was no trail to follow.
...I don't trust headshots. I've seen a jaw shot off. (not me)
...Bottom line.......I wouldn't do it again.0 -
Unless you're a herd cull shooter I've probably seen as many 223 deer kills as anyone. If you are physically able to use a bigger caliber there is NO reason to use the 223 for deer. Yes, it may be legal and it does work but the chance for a goof is too great for most hunters. Sooner or later you will over extend your ability or gun and an animal will be crippled and lost. The angle will be wrong or the wind will be blowing harder than you thought. It is the responsibility of the ethical hunter to make a quick, humane kill. The show off who brags about all the deer he kills with the little bitty gun should be hunting elephants so that when he boffs a shot the critter can exact a little payback. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ghotie_thumper
I don't think it's enough cartridge to consistently take deer successfully. Wasn't it designed as a military cartridge with the intent to wound rather than kill. I may be wrong on that one but while I served in the marine corps we were told that if you wounded one man, it would take two more out of the fight to take care of that one.
Anyways.
The 223 round started life as the .222 but the military wanted/need a little more punch and came up with the .223. Here is a quick blurb about it http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm . I am not sure on the "intent" to wound, but the rest is a fact. Keep in mind the military is limited to using FMJ ammo which transfers very little energy which = very little killing power compared to expanding type bullets, this goes for all calibers.
quote:
You can kill a deer with a .22 long rifle if the shot is placed right as some of your ego's seem to think. Problem is that some people have a difficult time deciding when to say when. If a big 24" heavy racked buck only presents a behind the shoulder shot at 200 yds are you capable of holding off or are you going to risk it? Hunting is a sport, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, obviously don't take the shot if it isn't there, I've passed on many with much more adequate calibers.
Now you are talking about a problem with people not the round being used. I do know for a fact as that is what many of the old timers around here used. Why wouldn't it kill? It is a bullet, and it is moving fast. You may be more of a man then me but I would choose not to be shot with one. I do agree that is way under power for that, but it will do the job.
quote:
But really, if you use a cartridge that is questionable such as the 223 you should question yourself. There are many fine calibers available and they give you good reasons to own more guns so why not jump up to a 257 roberts or a 2506?
I dont question myself on using a .223. I use mine and shoot hundreds if not into thousands of rounds with it every year and I know where my rounds go. I would question someone who shoot their gun once before each season and puts 5-10rds through it sitting on a bench fully supported at a flat range using the cheepest ammo they can find. They then go out and try to shot unsupported with "premium" ammo that has a different point of impact then the cheep ammo. While I wish I was making this up I have seen it time and time again.0 -
Although you can kill a deer with a .223 with the right shot placement, I don't recommend it for the simple reason that there is a greater possibility of wounding a deer than if you use a larger caliber cartridge. In the past I took numerous deer with my .22-250 with no issues until one occasion where I had thought I had made a good shot on a deer with it. The deer took off after the shot and I tracked it but couldn't find it. The next morning I tracked it again and finally found it about a quarter mile away, partially eaten by coyotes. What a sickening feeling(was a nice buck too). For deer hunting I stick to calibers with plenty of knock down power now. 0 -
ghotie_thumper,
" I don't think it's enough cartridge to consistently take deer successfully."
Obviously, you didn't read the above posts carefully or you wouldn't have made this statement. Thousands of us use the .223 Rem. SUCCESSFULLY every year by making the correct shot properly placed. If you choose to ignore the facts, that's your privilege.
"Wasn't it designed as a military cartridge with the intent to wound rather than kill. "(?)
It's the BULLET that was designed to wound NOT THE CARTRIDGE. We aren't shooting Military Surplus ammunition. We choose the correct and proper bullets that are designed to kill, load them and test them for surety. That's pretty obvious also.
"You can kill a deer with a .22 long rifle if the shot is placed right as some of your ego's seem to think."
It has nothing to do with our egos at all. We're relating factual information. The emotionalism doesn't prove your point. Again, if you choose to ignore the facts, have at it.
"But really, if you use a cartridge that is questionable such as the 223 you should question yourself. "
The cartridge IS NOT questionable in the minds of those of us who practice and use the .223 Rem. cartridge, so we don't have to question ourselves or our abilities because we know the truth. It's only questioned by those who don't know any better or don't want to believe the facts. But that's your choice, it's still America.
Yes there are many fine cartridges out there and I've used or still use many of them for hunting.
tapwater,
"I used my Win. model 70 lightweight carbine with Speer 70 gr. semi spitzers. Yes, it's a target bullet, but it does have exposed lead at the nose. "
A semi-spitzer in general is not a target bullet and the Speer semi-spitzer isn't even close. Speer lists it as a varmint bullet.
"...though her aorta was severed."
Lots of bullet designs fired from lots of different cartridges are capable of severing the aorta without letting the deer leave a blood trail. It doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the .223 Rem. I've help trail or attempt to trail a number of deer supposedly "shot good" that didn't leave a blood trail at all but were found dead. And all of them were shot with good old standby cartridges such as the 30-06 and the .270 Win. Go figure.
Mobuck,
We are responsible and ethical. We make the right shots and the animal dies humanely. Only your opinion prevents you from believing what we have tried to communicate to you. By the way, I would never wish harm on any other hunter no matter what the situation is or was.
Turbo72,
It's always good to learn your limits.
Best.
ADDED:
This is turning into a contentious thread so I think I'm finished with it. You all are entitled to your opinions.
Best.0 -
I wanted to add, I was using a premium hunting bullet in my .223, sighted in perfectly, and it was a 30 yard shot.
Like I said, the .223 is not for everyone.
Most of my deer I got with a .270 or .30 caliber.
But, I am still confident in my .223 and my capabilities as a shooter.0 -
[:)] 0 -
I am from PA, where I am taking my daughter for here 1st whitetail hunt. When I was a kid, .24 was the minimum cal for deer. They lowered it to any centerfire. I guess I am on the fence in the "small and fast v.s. big and slower". I own a .223 and could absolutely kill a deer with it. On the other hand, I feel that I may have to be the follow-up shot for my kid and her .243. Not that she can't shoot, but she HASN'T shot a deer yet (either way, that deer is going down, know what I mean[;)]).
SHOT PLACEMENT!!!
You could kill almost anything in the back of the head with a .22, would you be ethical to use a cal. that didn't offer a clean kill for the game hunted.0 -
As I said I have taken NUMEROUS deer with my .22-250 with NO issues. It has nothing to do with me knowing my limits. I am convinced that with a larger caliber rifle with more knock down power, I would NOT have lost that deer.quote:Originally posted by nononsense
ghotie_thumper,
" I don't think it's enough cartridge to consistently take deer successfully."
Obviously, you didn't read the above posts carefully or you wouldn't have made this statement. Thousands of us use the .223 Rem. SUCCESSFULLY every year by making the correct shot properly placed. If you choose to ignore the facts, that's your privilege.
"Wasn't it designed as a military cartridge with the intent to wound rather than kill. "(?)
It's the BULLET that was designed to wound NOT THE CARTRIDGE. We aren't shooting Military Surplus ammunition. We choose the correct and proper bullets that are designed to kill, load them and test them for surety. That's pretty obvious also.
"You can kill a deer with a .22 long rifle if the shot is placed right as some of your ego's seem to think."
It has nothing to do with our egos at all. We're relating factual information. The emotionalism doesn't prove your point. Again, if you choose to ignore the facts, have at it.
"But really, if you use a cartridge that is questionable such as the 223 you should question yourself. "
The cartridge IS NOT questionable in the minds of those of us who practice and use the .223 Rem. cartridge, so we don't have to question ourselves or our abilities because we know the truth. It's only questioned by those who don't know any better or don't want to believe the facts. But that's your choice, it's still America.
Yes there are many fine cartridges out there and I've used or still use many of them for hunting.
tapwater,
"I used my Win. model 70 lightweight carbine with Speer 70 gr. semi spitzers. Yes, it's a target bullet, but it does have exposed lead at the nose. "
A semi-spitzer in general is not a target bullet and the Speer semi-spitzer isn't even close. Speer lists it as a varmint bullet.
"...though her aorta was severed."
Lots of bullet designs fired from lots of different cartridges are capable of severing the aorta without letting the deer leave a blood trail. It doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the .223 Rem. I've help trail or attempt to trail a number of deer supposedly "shot good" that didn't leave a blood trail at all but were found dead. And all of them were shot with good old standby cartridges such as the 30-06 and the .270 Win. Go figure.
Mobuck,
We are responsible and ethical. We make the right shots and the animal dies humanely. Only your opinion prevents you from believing what we have tried to communicate to you. By the way, I would never wish harm on any other hunter no matter what the situation is or was.
Turbo72,
It's always good to learn your limits.
Best.
ADDED:
This is turning into a contentious thread so I think I'm finished with it. You all are entitled to your opinions.
Best.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Boomerang
I have a Remington VSSF in .223, and it has a 1/12 twist. I would usually use a larger caliber for deer, but recent changes in Tennessee's hunting laws now allows us to use .223 for deer. A 1/12 twist will stabilize a 55 grain bullet and smaller bullet. I would like to stay between 50 and 55 grain bullets for this task. If any one has experience hunting with a .223 on deer size game, what cartridge or bullet have you been using with success? Thanks
So is there a Nosler .223 bullet in the weight class above given the weight class limitation due to the 1/12 twist rate I have out of this rifle? If not, may I get another suggestion from you fellows with out a caliber debate.
Dang sorry this turned into a debate, that is not what I was expecting with this post.0 -
Nononsense, I'm shaking my head in disbelief at your responses. I've never doubted or questioned anything you have ever posted, but for you to talk about the .223 as a deer round, well.......
If someone has to ask if the .223 is a deer round, they shouldn't use it. Some shots aren't "perfect" and a round designed (and there are reasons why they are designed that way) for deer hunting should be capable of a thru and thru shot, even after hitting bone.
There are just way too many rounds and guns out there better suited for deer hunting than a .223.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Boomerang
quote:Originally posted by Boomerang
I have a Remington VSSF in .223, and it has a 1/12 twist. I would usually use a larger caliber for deer, but recent changes in Tennessee's hunting laws now allows us to use .223 for deer. A 1/12 twist will stabilize a 55 grain bullet and smaller bullet. I would like to stay between 50 and 55 grain bullets for this task. If any one has experience hunting with a .223 on deer size game, what cartridge or bullet have you been using with success? Thanks
So is there a Nosler .223 bullet in the weight class above given the weight class limitation due to the 1/12 twist rate I have out of this rifle? If not, may I get another suggestion from you fellows with out a caliber debate.
Dang sorry this turned into a debate, that is not what I was expecting with this post.
Boomerang - Yes, Nosler makes a 55 grain Partition that should work just fine for deer with the proper shot placement of course.0 -
quote:Originally posted by SCorvers
Some shots aren't "perfect" and a round designed (and there are reasons why they are designed that way) for deer hunting should be capable of a thru and thru shot, even after hitting bone.
I have to disagree 1000% with that statement. You do NOT want a bullet to go through. You want a bullet that will deliver as much energy as it can on the animal. To transfer energy the bullet needs to expand which causes it to slow or stop.
If you have a bullet that will pass through an animal then every little energy has transfered to the animal = very little killing power.
I would rather have a smaller bullet that transfers 100% of its energy then a larger one that transfers LESS then 100%0 -
This topic comes up again and again. . .
Three points:
1. You can take a deer with a .22LR, and plenty of people have done it. . .doesn't make it the best round for the job.
Just because you CAN hunt a deer with a .223, doesn't mean you SHOULD, or that its the best choice. Its one thing if you are starving, and that's the gun you've got.
If cost is an issue, a scoped single-shot NEF in 30/30 can be had for under $200. There are a bunch of pretty good military surplus rifles/calibers that are far better deer rounds than a .223, and cost less than any newish .223 rifle. So again, why use a .223 if there is any kind of choice?
2. There are "deer" and then there are "deer". Florida Key deer bucks average 70 pounds. In Maine its not uncommon to find a 200 pound whitetail buck, and some weigh over 300 pounds. Everywhere in between the deer size is in-between.
Obviously what's good for a 75 pound deer isn't necessarily good for a 300 pounder, and obviously you want to err on the side of too much gun, rather than too little.
3. Ultimately it comes down to the skill and discipline of the hunter. The smaller the caliber, the lower the margin of error for a bad shot or for an intervening obstacle (eg a twig) to ruin the shot.
The problem is that lots of shooters/hunters aren't as good as they think they are, and there can be a temptation to take less than a perfect shot.
So you can't generalize. I'm sure the better/experienced hunters certainly can get away with a .223 the vast majority of the time, but then again, these are the sorts of hunters who probably know better than to do that, if they have a choice.
Even the best hunter can have an occasional bad shot, or the target can move before the shot is let off.0
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