Other people's children
Rock - me - hard place
A year or more ago (I don't really recall but it seems like more than 2 years) I gave my cousin in Frankfort, KY a Remington 510 to train his boys how to shoot. I was passing through the area again this past weekend and I had a Marlin Model 60 that I was unable to give to the original intended recipient. I presented it and a "brick" of ammo (is it right to call 500 loose shells a brick?) and I asked about their progress with the Remington. Much to my horror the man has never once taken his sons out to shoot!
They are planning on attending a "skeet" shoot through their church (I strongly suspect it's really trap but I couldn't get him to admit it). Even though I don't really have the funds to spare I am considering attending the event and really putting pressure on him to let the boys shoot a rifle.
Boys that are 9 and 10 years old are not too young to shoot under proper supervision. I tried to scare him into beginning their training with a true story. A young man of my acquaintance is doing hard time which all started with his lack of proper firearms training. Like many boys he was fascinated with guns but his father never once took him out to shoot. When he turned 18 and moved out, he bought a gun, had a negligent discharge that very nearly wounded someone - the spiral of events led downward from there.
So I put this poll to the forum:
Stay home and keep my mouth shut.
Call/write and strongly encourage him to make the time.
Show up with a small arsenal and make him look like an a$$ if he doesn't let them shoot?
A year or more ago (I don't really recall but it seems like more than 2 years) I gave my cousin in Frankfort, KY a Remington 510 to train his boys how to shoot. I was passing through the area again this past weekend and I had a Marlin Model 60 that I was unable to give to the original intended recipient. I presented it and a "brick" of ammo (is it right to call 500 loose shells a brick?) and I asked about their progress with the Remington. Much to my horror the man has never once taken his sons out to shoot!
They are planning on attending a "skeet" shoot through their church (I strongly suspect it's really trap but I couldn't get him to admit it). Even though I don't really have the funds to spare I am considering attending the event and really putting pressure on him to let the boys shoot a rifle.
Boys that are 9 and 10 years old are not too young to shoot under proper supervision. I tried to scare him into beginning their training with a true story. A young man of my acquaintance is doing hard time which all started with his lack of proper firearms training. Like many boys he was fascinated with guns but his father never once took him out to shoot. When he turned 18 and moved out, he bought a gun, had a negligent discharge that very nearly wounded someone - the spiral of events led downward from there.
So I put this poll to the forum:
Stay home and keep my mouth shut.
Call/write and strongly encourage him to make the time.
Show up with a small arsenal and make him look like an a$$ if he doesn't let them shoot?
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quote:Originally posted by Henry0Reilly
Rock - me - hard place
A year or more ago (I don't really recall but it seems like more than 2 years) I gave my cousin in Frankfort, KY a Remington 510 to train his boys how to shoot. I was passing through the area again this past weekend and I had a Marlin Model 60 that I was unable to give to the original intended recipient. I presented it and a "brick" of ammo (is it right to call 500 loose shells a brick?) and I asked about their progress with the Remington. Much to my horror the man has never once taken his sons out to shoot!
They are planning on attending a "skeet" shoot through their church (I strongly suspect it's really trap but I couldn't get him to admit it). Even though I don't really have the funds to spare I am considering attending the event and really putting pressure on him to let the boys shoot a rifle.
Boys that are 9 and 10 years old are not too young to shoot under proper supervision. I tried to scare him into beginning their training with a true story. A young man of my acquaintance is doing hard time which all started with his lack of proper firearms training. Like many boys he was fascinated with guns but his father never once took him out to shoot. When he turned 18 and moved out, he bought a gun, had a negligent discharge that very nearly wounded someone - the spiral of events led downward from there.
So I put this poll to the forum:
Stay home and keep my mouth shut.
Call/write and strongly encourage him to make the time.
Show up with a small arsenal and make him look like an a$$ if he doesn't let them shoot?
Henry,
Regardless of your decision, at the end, you will be saying "Doh!". My advice is to pick one, have fun, and never look back.
[;)][:0][B)][8D]0 -
Could be that he doesn't feel comfortable, or confident enough to do it. You left out other options. One would be to offer to take him shooting, and teach him how to teach the kids, and another would be to take his kids shooting yourself (with permission of course. Hope it works out. 0 -
As you can see from one of my other posts, My Father didn't want me to have access to a weapon while on the East Coast. Had someone offered to take me or us to the gun range, My Father might have let me go, or might have wanted to come along and help with the training.
In my case, someone like you showing up and offering to take me/us to the range might have done the trick. It would have tipped the balance towards responsible gun-handling and ownership years sooner, and maybe I would have gone on a hunt or two with my Dad.
I REALLY wish my Father had, sometime or other, given me the benefit of his hunting knowledge. I am a grown man, with NO hunting experience, and noone with whom to gain such. My only child has no hunting experience...how can that ever be remedied?
With parents' permission, and sometimes with their participation, I have endeavored to teach responsible gun-handling to children by use of an air-rifle, air-pistol and pellet trap/target, in my Garage.0 -
I would show up!
Since you gave the gun as a gift I do not think it is out of line to offer to take the kids shooting.
And it would be wrong for thier father to refuse your offer to take them considering you gave them the gun. The father would and should be there as well as to know what you have taught the kids and can continue the education.
I gaurentee once you get those kids out shooting that they will get thier father to start takeing them.
I know my kids are allways on me to take them out for a day of shooting!0 -
Have the kids shown any interest in firearms?...
They are, after all, HIS kids and if he doesnt want them around guns, then you have to abide by the decision...
quote:Show up with a small arsenal and make him look like an a$$ if he doesn't let them shoot?
Why? Think bout how you would feel if someone did that to you in front of YOUR kids...Again, they are his kids. It could be a decision between him and his wife not to let the kids around guns...Perhaps he is not comfortable enough around them himself to teach the kids....
Why not a 4th option?....Go see your cousin and kids, talk to him, find out the reason why they havent been shooting, and then go from there...Dont come off as the "tough gun toting" cousin forcing his kids to do something they perhaps might not have an interest in..If the interest is there, then find out why they dont go out more..Perhaps time, money or even sickness has been the reason..0 -
I'm kind of in the same boat as you Henry. Our best friends have twin 7 year old boys. GRD is having that Cricket 22 giveaway and I asked my friends if it would be ok if I entered them. Dave was and E5 of a light infantry squad in Desert Storm, Candace is a bit younger but not much of a gun lover. I would figure that Dave would have been ok.
They didn't even look at each other and both shook their heads.
It's their decision, not mine.
I didn't argue.
Their kids love Tori and I, always begging for us to stay the night and stuff. I figure, sooner or later, I'll be able to take them shooting.0 -
quote:Their kids love Tori and I, always begging for us to stay the night and stuff. I figure, sooner or later, I'll be able to take them shooting.
If the kids do spend a night with you and Tori, dont take them shooting without permission...You could be hurting the kids and yourselves if you do...If the parents found out you took them out, they might stop them from seeing you guys and spending time with each other...I dont think either one would want that...
Its hard to understand sometimes, especially with out love of firearms and the sport involved, but unless its our own kids, we have to adide by the parents decisions...Talk to the parents, perhaps they can be gently persuaded to learn about firearms...0 -
quote:Originally posted by dcinffxva
Could be that he doesn't feel comfortable, or confident enough to do it. You left out other options. One would be to offer to take him shooting, and teach him how to teach the kids, and another would be to take his kids shooting yourself (with permission of course. Hope it works out.
This is my thoughts as well!!!0 -
quote:Originally posted by BlackRoses
quote:Their kids love Tori and I, always begging for us to stay the night and stuff. I figure, sooner or later, I'll be able to take them shooting.
If the kids do spend a night with you and Tori, dont take them shooting without permission...You could be hurting the kids and yourselves if you do...If the parents found out you took them out, they might stop them from seeing you guys and spending time with each other...I dont think either one would want that...
Its hard to understand sometimes, especially with out love of firearms and the sport involved, but unless its our own kids, we have to adide by the parents decisions...Talk to the parents, perhaps they can be gently persuaded to learn about firearms...
No, no. That wasn't the idea at all.
I just figured sooner or later, all of us would head to the range. Tori loves to shoot, I'm sure Candace would if she saw Tori having a good time. I know Dave doesn't mind it, and I'm sure the kids would love it. I'd never think of taking them without their parent's permission.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dcinffxva
Could be that he doesn't feel comfortable, or confident enough to do it. You left out other options. One would be to offer to take him shooting, and teach him how to teach the kids, and another would be to take his kids shooting yourself (with permission of course. Hope it works out.
I would say that is a parent who has no faith or confedence in thier kids.
I am a believer that the earlier you start them the less likely they are to develop bad gun habits!
My kids have been around them all thier lives and have enuff knowlege at ages 6 & 9 that I would feel comfortable leaving a loaded gun on the kitchen table (NO I DO NOT DO THIS SO DON'T GET ANY WRONG IDEAS) and know that they would not touch it.
They also have a great comprehention of the safety rules with guns and I make them practice the same safety rules even with toys guns! (water guns do get an exception as long as they are only shooting at those that are also playing with them)
Bottom line is: It is never to early to start teaching kids about the shooting sports! And the earlier you start them the lest likely they will have a problem as they get older. Also parents who are going to have guns in the house should start teaching thier kids young as to take the curiosity factor out of the game, because if you expose them to guns at an early age they will not be as curios about them do to allready getting to handle them with adult supervision.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Henry0Reilly
Show up with a small arsenal and make him look like an a$$ if he doesn't let them shoot?
Show up with the arsenal, AK's, AR's, Pistols...A.K.A. Fun guns and mabey some bolts and definitly a 22 or 2, dont make him look like and ass and let him shoot the guns first then the kids will come and start beggin to shoot the guns, so if there dad alows say yes0 -
Show up with a small arsenal and make him look like an a$$ if he doesn't let them shoot?
I'd do it.0 -
take him and the kids, he probably needs as much training as the boys. then they can go again with out you. most guys at the clubs around here are always willing to help new shooters out especially the youth. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by bpa098
take him and the kids, he probably needs as much training as the boys. then they can go again with out you. most guys at the clubs around here are always willing to help new shooters out especially the youth.
That had just occured to me this morning. As far as I know he's never had any formal training. Truth be told my father didn't teach me much. He took me shooting about three times, hunting once, and turned me loose.
I had Rifle & Shotgun merit badge in Boy Scouts and then learned the M16A1 in recruit training and famfired the M1911A1.
This also sheds light on why he ruined Grandpas Marlin 39 by having it drilled and tapped for a scope - he didn't have any confidence in his ability to shoot with iron sights. (If I had any idea he wanted to drill and tap it I would have let him have the Mountie carbine, which already had holes for a scope rail.)
edit = btt for the other shift0 -
I don't know what I would do....but I think I would plan a big day of shooting and invite them to come on out. Make it so there will be others there with their kids if possible. The more fun they have the more gun friendly people you will be training. Plus the dad may like to see other people interacting with kids to make himself feel a little less "protective" and out of place. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by git_r_done
quote:Originally posted by dcinffxva
Could be that he doesn't feel comfortable, or confident enough to do it. You left out other options. One would be to offer to take him shooting, and teach him how to teach the kids, and another would be to take his kids shooting yourself (with permission of course. Hope it works out.
I would say that is a parent who has no faith or confedence in thier kids.
I am a believer that the earlier you start them the less likely they are to develop bad gun habits!
My kids have been around them all thier lives and have enuff knowlege at ages 6 & 9 that I would feel comfortable leaving a loaded gun on the kitchen table (NO I DO NOT DO THIS SO DON'T GET ANY WRONG IDEAS) and know that they would not touch it.
They also have a great comprehention of the safety rules with guns and I make them practice the same safety rules even with toys guns! (water guns do get an exception as long as they are only shooting at those that are also playing with them)
Bottom line is: It is never to early to start teaching kids about the shooting sports! And the earlier you start them the lest likely they will have a problem as they get older. Also parents who are going to have guns in the house should start teaching thier kids young as to take the curiosity factor out of the game, because if you expose them to guns at an early age they will not be as curios about them do to allready getting to handle them with adult supervision.
Exactly. I got my boy his first gun when the ultrasound told us he was going to be a boy. I gave to him when he was three, and started with him on safety. Now he is an accurate and safe shooter. He will not touch a gun unless I say he can do it, though he will but the piss out of you to let him handle one. YOu cannot start to early with such.0 -
show up with the arsenal and let the lead fly 0 -
I'm trying to remember, Who's the parent here, you or the father. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by reloader44mag
I'm trying to remember, Who's the parent here, you or the father.
I have no kids (that I know of) so I guess I feel a little closer to children who share my DNA indirectly than most folks would.
quote:Originally posted by Fatboy lives
Exactly. I got my boy his first gun when the ultrasound told us he was going to be a boy. I gave to him when he was three, and started with him on safety. Now he is an accurate and safe shooter. He will not touch a gun unless I say he can do it, though he will but the piss out of you to let him handle one. YOu cannot start to early with such.
Are you saying you would have treated a daughter differently?0 -
quote:Stay home and keep my mouth shut.
Always the best advice. Giving a gun gives you no proprietary rights to determine how it is used by the receiver. Their gun now, their family. Mind your own business, even if you are right.
For me, ALL children are other peoples children. That is a best for all.0 -
i would choose #4
but out of high respect #2 or any mix of the two0 -
Call and ask if you can take the boys to the range. Don't be a dick, but do ask him. I have taken my nephew a few times and he loves it. I laid down the firearm laws hard, and he actually listened to me and was very safe with the firearms. 0 -
Of course you are right about the age-thing.
Mike took out boys out to the club their first time at the same ages.
Not enough infomation regarding the rest....How close are you to this cousin? I mean, can you talk frankly with him? Perhaps there is a reason he has not taken the boys out, validation not withstanding, but negotiable. Does he want to but hasn't had the chance/motivation? Has he said it is the "age-thing"?
Don't automatically assume anything....
Bottom line, if he has reservations, the pressure you put on him may backfire, as parents are a little sensitive about outsiders telling them they are doing something wrong.0
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