Power Stroke vs Cummins vs Duramax
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That was great! Thanks for posting.
I'm going to steal it, hope you don't mind. [:D][:D]0 -
As the proud owner of a 2005 Dodge Ram 3500 CTD powered truck, I already knew the conclusion to that test[8D][^][8D] 
Bert (Real MEN drive a Dodge RAM Cummins Turbo Diesel)0 -
Agreed, Bert. [^][^]
07.5 with the 6.7L Cummins and 6 spd manual. The perfect towing rig.0 -
Damn straight on them Cummins.....[:D][:D][:D] Boy at work has a daily driven 2004. He has dyno sheets shown 700 horses, and almost 1200 lbs.torque..... He also pulls at all the sled event, and drives evryday.. You would never know what it has lookn at it or hearing run. Oh i forgot it is tuned so well, there is hardly any smoke... 0 -
LOL if you look close at pics they are toys have drove both dodge and ford pulling trailer loaded with cattle the dodge sucked my old 94.5 with 7.3 out run it bad.....my 2000 has lot more power than the 94.5[;)] the dodge lasted less than a month and two trannys was down the road[:D] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by SW 357Mag
Agreed, Bert. [^][^]
07.5 with the 6.7L Cummins and 6 spd manual. The perfect towing rig.
Sweet ride[:p][^][8D]. I also have the 6-speed manual tranny... it is a much better choice for serious pulling.0 -
quote:Originally posted by cowdoc
LOL if you look close at pics they are toys have drove both dodge and ford pulling trailer loaded with cattle the dodge sucked my old 94.5 with 7.3 out run it bad.....my 2000 has lot more power than the 94.5[;)] the dodge lasted less than a month and two trannys was down the road[:D]
Doc... there is no comparison betwen a 94/95 Dodge with the Cummins versus the 2004.5 or later. The 600 series Cummins is an animal, and it gets considerably better fuel economy than the PowerStroke or Duramax. None of the trucks equipped with an automatic tranny could (or can) handle heavy work... all of them will fail. That is why I refuse to own anything but a manual transmission equipped truck.0 -
Dodge for me too! six speed is the only way to go. I have 2 a 98 and 2002 3" stacks on the 98 and 6" bull haulers on the 2002. Had to do a button clutch on the 98 gross weight of 50,000 lbs. factory clutch would go out in 2 monts or less.button does great.44vernon 0 -
Off road stuff is true. Z-71's are wimps off road. Pulled some of them out with my Ford. 0 -
Obviously a gag sequence, but with some truth.
The 47RE (auto) transmission used in Gen 2 Dodge trucks and before could give problems. Nothing that couldn't be upgraded at a price, but they were weak for some applications.
Then the 48RE. A much better unit with fewer problems, but still a 4-speed in reality. Probably not as well suited for diesels as the Allison, but MUCH less expensive to repair if something did go wrong. And Allisons aren't bulletproof.
Transmissions from the 48RE on are not an issue, though I've always preferred a standard gearbox.
Engines? The Cummins is in a class by itself. This isn't to say that the PowerStroke or Duramax are bad, it's only to say that any comparison pretty much ends with the fact they all burn diesel fuel.
Ford has probably had the worst problems and keeps changing engines in the quest for reliability. Don't get me wrong... When they run, they run well. GM's have had less overall troubles, but they aren't perfect either.
A comparison?
Ford and Chevy offer short-stroke V engines. They rev quickly and will usually win a drag race when put up beside a Cummins if they're running light. By comparison the Cummins is a slow-turning torque monster. Under load the drag race will end much differently as this is where the Cummins comes into its own.
Cummins is also a much heavier built motor. It's not unusual to see a Cummins top the 500k mile mark with nothing but VERY minimal maintenance. With a bit of TLC they reach the million mile mark with nary a whimper. You'll find that the competition can't come close on this count.
About the only derogatory thing that can be said about the Dodges is that Bert picked red.[;)] I, myself, prefer white. A 2004.5 325/600 with a standard transmission. It's my fourth since 1991.0 -
He tries to say he is not being biased, but I will call BS on that!
And as you notice he is useing toy trucks to make his illistrations!
Why does he not use actuall video of what he is saying?
I will not put down the Cummins motor as it is a great motor! But I believe the Power Stroke is just as great!
And if you take into consideration that the 2 are equal then Ford is the way to go as the body and suspention is far better in the Ford!0 -
quote:Originally posted by nord
Obviously a gag sequence, but with some truth.
The 47RE (auto) transmission used in Gen 2 Dodge trucks and before could give problems. Nothing that couldn't be upgraded at a price, but they were weak for some applications.
Then the 48RE. A much better unit with fewer problems, but still a 4-speed in reality. Probably not as well suited for diesels as the Allison, but MUCH less expensive to repair if something did go wrong. And Allisons aren't bulletproof.
Transmissions from the 48RE on are not an issue, though I've always preferred a standard gearbox.
Engines? The Cummins is in a class by itself. This isn't to say that the PowerStroke or Duramax are bad, it's only to say that any comparison pretty much ends with the fact they all burn diesel fuel.
Ford has probably had the worst problems and keeps changing engines in the quest for reliability. Don't get me wrong... When they run, they run well. GM's have had less overall troubles, but they aren't perfect either.
A comparison?
Ford and Chevy offer short-stroke V engines. They rev quickly and will usually win a drag race when put up beside a Cummins if they're running light. By comparison the Cummins is a slow-turning torque monster. Under load the drag race will end much differently as this is where the Cummins comes into its own.
Cummins is also a much heavier built motor. It's not unusual to see a Cummins top the 500k mile mark with nothing but VERY minimal maintenance. With a bit of TLC they reach the million mile mark with nary a whimper. You'll find that the competition can't come close on this count.
About the only derogatory thing that can be said about the Dodges is that Bert picked red.[;)] I, myself, prefer white. A 2004.5 325/600 with a standard transmission. It's my fourth since 1991.
I know of many many power strokes with well over the 1/2 million mile mark on them with nothing more than oil changes being done to them and they are running as strong as ever!0 -
I have seen other tests that didn't turn out like this site reports. The Cummins does have more low end power off the block with the long inline stroke, but upto speed tends to fall back. 0 -
GRD-
I respectfully disagree. The sequence in question was a spoof. Nothing more. It's not meant to seriously represent anything.
The fact remains that Ford has been unable to produce a reliable diesel. Witness the number of different motors that have been introduced. PowerStrokes have problems. Not all, but many. I say this not as a criticism, but as a verifiable fact.
Ford suspensions? Front springs make for an extended turning radius. The rest? If you think Ford is better, then so be it. I'll take the solid front axle system in the Dodge.
Body? Ford may be more luxurious. Other than that I can't comment. All I know is that I'm very pleased with the Dodge setup and the price difference from Dodge to Ford for a few more cup holders isn't worth my consideration.
All three manufacturers make a good product. You stick with your Ford. I'll remain in the Dodge camp. I happen to believe that the engine is the heart and soul of a vehicle. Obviously you have a different opinion.
Nothing wrong with either!0 -
Here is a cummins... good deal if you have an engine..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/06-Dodge-1-Ton-Crew-Cab-Diesel-Stick-Bad-Engine_W0QQitemZ170160037001QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item1701600370010 -
I keep reading that Ford keeps changing their engine and Dodge doesn't. The only thing that has stayed the same on a Cummins is the cubic inch and now that has changed. I bet the oil drain plug on a 1998 Cummins want fit a 2008 model. Cummins has changed their fuel system, pistons, heads, pumps, turbo and on and on as much or more as any other. Ford has sold more Powerstrokes through the years than all the others put together and there has not been on the average a more reliable engine than the 7.3 Powerstroke. Just about all ambulances, UPS trucks, and school buses have the 7.3 engine in them The new 6.4 Powerstroke so far is proving itself to be excellent with the biggest problem being fuel consumption, but the 6.7 Cummins also is proving to be a fuel hog also. 0 -
I know it's all, "my dog's bigger than your dog", but the Power Stroke Fords have beat everything we've ever had, including the Dodge Cummings. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
As the proud owner of a 2005 Dodge Ram 3500 CTD powered truck, I already knew the conclusion to that test[8D][^][8D]
Bert (Real MEN drive a Dodge RAM Cummins Turbo Diesel)
Nice truck Bert...0 -
quote:Originally posted by jltrent
I keep reading that Ford keeps changing their engine and Dodge doesn't. The only thing that has stayed the same on a Cummins is the cubic inch and now that has changed. I bet the oil drain plug on a 1998 Cummins want fit a 2008 model. Cummins has changed their fuel system, pistons, heads, pumps, turbo and on and on as much or more as any other. Ford has sold more Powerstrokes through the years than all the others put together and there has not been on the average a more reliable engine than the 7.3 Powerstroke. Just about all ambulances, UPS trucks, and school buses have the 7.3 engine in them The new 6.4 Powerstroke so far is proving itself to be excellent with the biggest problem being fuel consumption, but the 6.7 Cummins also is proving to be a fuel hog also.
That is a bogus statement. The complete bottom end of the engine is unchanged. Yes, Cummins has upgraded top-end components, but those upgrades were made simply to increase the power output of the engine. The head change was from a 12-valve to 24-valve, the piston, fuel and other changes were made to accomadate the new head. In mid 2004, the fuel delivery system was upgraded to the high-pressure common rail to boost the power and quiet the engine, but the engine was otherwise unchanged. There is a big difference between upgrading parts of an engine, versus replacing it with an entirely new engine as Ford did. The 6.0L Powerstroke proved to be a disaster, and the 6.4L has not been around long enough to tell. As for the new 6.7L Cummins, it is simply the older 5.9L bored and stroked slightly (408 CID vs. 360 CID). It shares 40% of the same parts (including the oil pan drain plug[:D]). The real truth to the durability and reliabilty of the Cummins engine is the sheer number of them on the road in the big trucks (tractor trailers).0 -
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
As the proud owner of a 2005 Dodge Ram 3500 CTD powered truck, I already knew the conclusion to that test[8D][^][8D]
Bert (Real MEN drive a Dodge RAM Cummins Turbo Diesel)
Nice truck Bert...
Thanks... I really need to take and post an updated picture of it though. I just put a new set of (larger) tires on it. The OE tires were Michelin LTXs (31.7" height), and I put a set of Goodyear Wrangler AT Extremes on it (34.5" height).0 -
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
As the proud owner of a 2005 Dodge Ram 3500 CTD powered truck, I already knew the conclusion to that test[8D][^][8D]
Bert (Real MEN drive a Dodge RAM Cummins Turbo Diesel)
Thanks... I really need to take and post an updated picture of it though. I just put a new set of (larger) tires on it. The OE tires were Michelin LTXs (31.7" height), and I put a set of Goodyear Wrangler AT Extremes on it (34.5" height).
Nice truck Bert...
post them when you get them.[8D]0 -
For the "My dog's bigger than yours" crowd, let's just stick to facts...
It's Cummins, not Cummings. Not a big deal really, but if you profess to know about trucks and engines, maybe you should know how to pronounce and spell CUMMINS.
Changes in the 5.9 I-6? Unlike Ford who changes entire engines on what seems like a semi-annual basis, Dodge has remained the same until mid-2007. The basic 5.9 block was retained through the years pretty much unchanged. What was changed was torque and horsepower. Thus, internal components changed to give higher performance. Twelve to twenty-four valve, different injectors, different pumps, different turbos, and finally a common rail... But still with the same basic block and with no reliability problems! Fact is, the 325/600 configuration can be tripled without an undue reduction in reliability. Please don't tell me that a run-of-the-mill Powerstroke can be expected to do the same.
The new Cummins engine is merely a bigger brother of the 5.9 built on a slightly larger block. Unlike any other engine out there, it's emissions compliant for either the 2010 or 2012 regulations. (I forget which.) Sadly, the EGR system works much like gassers and actually decreases overall efficiency. But, the Duramax and Powerstroke use EGR too, so they all share the same downfall.
Next, let's cover the Powerstroke in a bit more detail. Whether one admits it or not, the Powerstroke has had its share of problems. One dealer that I'm aware of has had every single PS come back to the shop for work. Mostly stretched head bolts. Some repeatedly. This is a serious problem and it's not a secret. Since these same engines are used by International with few problems, it's fairly safe to assume that Ford engineers are doing something that these engines don't like.
By the way... Ford and International got into a squabble over warranty issues earlier this year. You'll note that Dodge and Cummins haven't.
And before someone brings up the "Ford owns Cummins" rumor... Ford doesn't!
Lest you think I'm picking on Ford, I'm not. Dodge has had two specific problems. First, a somewhat weak automatic transmission (47RE). Second, a lift pump that was of poor design. The 47RE has since been upgraded to a very good automatic transmission and the lift pump problem... Well, let's just say that I'm not too sure.
My opinion is that any engineer should know that a pump pushes much better than it pulls. That being said, the pump on my truck being mounted on the engine block takes all of 10 minutes to change. The Dodge "solution" mounted in the tank requires dropping the fuel cell. Guess which one I prefer? Better the devil you know.
Notice that I haven't said a thing about Duramax. Izuzu makes good engines. There have been problems. Injection systems, glow plugs, etc. Generally I think GM has ironed out the problems. I don't like their frames and I don't like IFS in a heavy truck. And I don't like their price.
Again... Good vehicles all. They're all imperfect. I choose Dodge because of the service these trucks have given me. You may choose something different. That's all well and good, but don't dismiss the Dodge brand because of what you think you know. Be honest and base it on fact... Even if the fact is that you won't drive one because you're a Ford or GM family. That's good enough reason for me.[:)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by SW 357Mag
Agreed, Bert. [^][^]
07.5 with the 6.7L Cummins and 6 spd manual. The perfect towing rig.
My buddy just bought an '08 with the Automatic in white.
A BEAST!0 -
People just don't get it. Ford replaced the 7.3 with the 6.0 to meet the new emmission standards and not because they didn't already have a good engine just like Dodge done in 2007. The 6.0 was rushed in a year to early before they got the programing worked out which caused problems, Ford will admit. Yes Ford did do a lot of redesigning just like the rest. Also a Cummins Block from 1998 will not work in a the newer Cummins just to many changes. Also if all Cummins done was to bore out the 5.9 to a 6.7 then I don't want one. Alful thin walls that want stand the heat, pressure or durability, this is BS. I am not putting your trucks down all I am saying is that all have their strengths, but I am tired of people thinking a Cummins from 1992 is the same engine as today or stayed the same. Like Bert said in his post about all the changes of the Cummins, just lkie I said everything has changed. Also if we are talking about road tractor Cummins diesels I don't want one they just burn to much fuel for me. My understanding Navistar doesn't have to bad of a road tractor engine either. 0 -
ford 6.0 = JUNK.
ford 7.3 = possibly best ever diesel engine.
Fords ride like sherman tanks.
dodge cummins = possibly best ever diesel engine.
dodges transmission are crap bottom line, if your gonna get a dodge make sure it is a manual.
chevy 6.6 very quite and quite powerful.
chevys ride like dream especially when loaded down.
chevys are notoriously low to the ground and they have weaker steering linkage when compared to the dodge and ford.
I work around all three of these types of trucks usually on the right of way on a pipeline job. They are all tough trucks, I prefer chevy. The trucks I work around are usually loaded with a welding machine and a 8-13 gauge steel bed, As far as ride quality chevy has them all beat! But I have witnessed a tie rod on a chevy get bent 180 degrees, and that is my only complaint with a chevy RAISE THE TRUCK and quit using powerwheel steering linkage.0 -
Agreed. I believe the Cummins (sorry for the previous spelling) is a good engine, but the 7.3 Power Stroke was solid as a rock! Dodge has bad automatic transmissions and weak electrical systems. Frods ride rough, but you can't break them. Chevy tried to build a comercial truck on light weight parts. 0 -
the 7.3 is the most bullet proof automotive diesel engine i have been around..just couldn't make new epa emissions ....the 6.0, i have one in excursion good power and mpg
have not been around the new stroke yet so cant comment on that engine....guess when it come to heavy pulling i got a 379 ext HD peterbilt with 500 hp 3406E
on side note if somebody would get smart and put in the John Deere 607 cu in engine in a pickup now we'd be talking[;)]0 -
My Freightliner has a 12.7 Detroit that is a pulling machine. Change oil once a year and never add any in between. 0 -
Have owned (well our company) GM 6.5 and 6.6, 7.3 Power Strokes (2 of them) and (2) 5.9 Cummins. All good engines. The 6.5 had injector pump problems, a rebuilt pump every 150,000 miles or so. Put a water pump on the 6.5 and the 7.3, else no problem with the engines. The 7.3 is on its second transmission. The '03 Silverado with the 6.6 has a chip that makes a little over 400 hp. Have gone through a couple of transfer cases. Both of the 5.9's had manual transmissions ('93 and a '99)so no problems there.
Overall, the Silverado is nice smooth and powerful, comfortable to drive long distances. The Ford is a good stout truck (got almost 400,000 on it) but when it comes to dragging a serious load, I'll take the '99 3500 with the 5.9 24 valve, just don't put it in 5th gear and it'll drag about anything.0
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