Your thoughtful opinion please?
I would really like to hear how the majority feel about this situation. Please think and be fair as you possibly can.
A convenience store in town was just robbed, the intruders cut one employee with a knife. Officers arrive at the scene and get a full description of the car its tag and direction of travel. A Deputy happens to be coming down one direction of the road as they sped towards him and tried to hit him but he evaded the car. He radios in and turns on the car very shortly getting it in sight. Two Town Police Officers riding together because of the quick turn of events speed to assist the Deputy on a dim lite but dry road. A Trooper is enroute from the same direction as the Town Cops but 3 - 5 Minutes behind. He comes upon a sight he never wants to see, the Officers from the Town PD have lost control of their cruiser and the Trooper finds it laying upside down on the road with smoke coming heavy from the cruiser. He stops and pulls the two Officers out of the smoking wreakage to safety. Then radios an ambulance for the two Officers, one which has a compound fracture to the ankle the other with cuts and bruises. The Trooper is a {FTO) Field Training Officer and a Supervisor. He radios his dispatcher to send a Supervisor from a different County so there is no conflict of interest and its (SOP). Should the Town Officer doing his job that lost control of his cruiser be charged with Failure to maintain control of his vehicle? Reckless driving nor any other charges does not apply due to circumstance. But this will never be taken from his record and will probably hinder him from promotions and other big assignments. If the charges were pending and up to you, what would be your decision?
A convenience store in town was just robbed, the intruders cut one employee with a knife. Officers arrive at the scene and get a full description of the car its tag and direction of travel. A Deputy happens to be coming down one direction of the road as they sped towards him and tried to hit him but he evaded the car. He radios in and turns on the car very shortly getting it in sight. Two Town Police Officers riding together because of the quick turn of events speed to assist the Deputy on a dim lite but dry road. A Trooper is enroute from the same direction as the Town Cops but 3 - 5 Minutes behind. He comes upon a sight he never wants to see, the Officers from the Town PD have lost control of their cruiser and the Trooper finds it laying upside down on the road with smoke coming heavy from the cruiser. He stops and pulls the two Officers out of the smoking wreakage to safety. Then radios an ambulance for the two Officers, one which has a compound fracture to the ankle the other with cuts and bruises. The Trooper is a {FTO) Field Training Officer and a Supervisor. He radios his dispatcher to send a Supervisor from a different County so there is no conflict of interest and its (SOP). Should the Town Officer doing his job that lost control of his cruiser be charged with Failure to maintain control of his vehicle? Reckless driving nor any other charges does not apply due to circumstance. But this will never be taken from his record and will probably hinder him from promotions and other big assignments. If the charges were pending and up to you, what would be your decision?
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It would depend on the states "High Speed" chase law. 0 -
Should the Town Officer doing his job that lost control of his cruiser be charged with Failure to maintain control of his vehicle?
In my opinion, no. As you said, the Town Officer was doing his job. Unfortunately, the cruiser was flipped over while he was persuing a person that had just robbed and assaulted someone with a knife.
Personally, I'd have the officer (re)take the police driving class and let it go at that. I would not put any black marks on his record.
Now, had he flipped over his cruiser while persuing someone for jaywalking or failing to come to a complete stop at a stop sign, I would put a black mark on his record.0 -
I would assume an investigation will be done to determine what caused the accident. Was it mechanical or driver error ? Could have been a deer run across the road. 0 -
Law enforcement is by nature a high risk occupation. We know a few things from the story above.
1. Violent felons were running from the police.
2. Multiple agencies responded on behalf of the well being of the community.
3. A vehicle was destroyed in the process, and two officers recieved injuries.
If proceedure required that pursuit of violent felons was warranted, then the proceedure dictates the risk of a car chase and the unpredictable outcome is acceptable.
The human factors end of it, is an officer was human, made a mistake and wrecked a car.
In any unsafe situation risks must be identified and either accepted or rejected. The police department accepts the risk associated with the chase and has the officer engage in the chase. If the officer had been ran off the road by the bad guys he would be getting an award, since he was responsible you are going to punish him for a wreck when the proceedure was to put himself into harms way and purue the felons?
Punishing the officer doesn't do any good in the big picture of things. The focus should be on preventing the future occurance of similar accidents. Reviewing pursuit proceedures and acceptable speeds and engage/disengage proceedures is the more effective way to prevent a future occurance of a similar incident. A full debriefing with a lessons learned aproach would be beneficial to both the department in envolved and individual officers envolved.
One factor you did leave out of the equation (maybe for a reason) is the possibility of prior incidents. A track record of similar incidents could be a bad thing.0 -
Where I live the officer in question lost control of his car, crashed through a garden wall and killed a woman. He is being disciplined with a suspension, but presumably will be sued in civil court as well. 0 -
Dave W. and others have articulated opinions that basically reflect how I feel.
From the standpoint of the beaurocracy, overkill when it comes to punishing officers is usually safer politically speaking than possibly resorting to measures that don't quite cover all bases. You basically have a beaurocracy with no ballz if they are trying to pull this on these two officers.0 -
My opinion: If EVERYTHING the Officer driving did was within Department policy, he should not be disciplined.
WHY did the car go off the road and flip ?? Were both officers seatbelted ??
In the vast majority of police pursuits that I'm aware of, no high-speed pursuit should have taken place. The evading person could have been captured using an alternative method.
I am not in favor of high speed pursuits, and I'll be quite happy when the majority of police are equipped with the EMP (Electro Magnetic Pulse) device that shuts off the car's engine.
D.0 -
depends on if they were following dept procedure in giving chase.
then, depends on under what circumstances they got in a wreck. i.e. road conditions (rain, snow, gravel, narrow lanes, sunlight, no light, their speed, animal crossing, etc.)
they could be at fault or completely blameless. needs investigation.0 -
Times have changed. My grandparents were killed when an officer was running the highway with his lights off at night in a high speed chase. The car he was chasing had passed a FM Road where my folks were waiting to make a turn toward town a few miles down the road. All efforts to have this law officer punished were to no avail.
I visited the town some forty years later and was discusiing this event with some old timers who remembered my people. They related a similar killing made by the same officer in yet again another high speed chase years later. The officer beat that one as well and died a natural death, so I was told.0 -
If is is an accident nobody should be charged. LEO's are humans like the rest of us and can make mistakes, give them a break!
We don't have to have scapegoats for all circumstances! Use some good ole Common Sense when you evaluate these kind of events.[:0][:0]0 -
Dunno.
I wasn't there.0 -
NO 0 -
If it was driver error, then why shouldn't he be punished the same as a civilian. Just becase he was in a high speed chase doesn't mean he should ever be driving faster than the road conditions and his personal abilities allow. 0 -
I would go with what Dave W. has related. With the addition of a history of the driver being an element of any action. 0 -
Thanks for your opinions, I really appreciate them. I dont know what the outcome will be, but I will give an update when I do. The Officers are doing good one has returned back to Duty and the other is nursing a badly broken ankle. 0 -
MANY MANY times I have seen police Speed with no lights or siren on And have also watched as they have parked behind a car on the shoulder with their car sitting in the lane for uncoming cars to barely avoid while at the same time having their take down lights on, blinding oncoming traffic.
I often wonder if they don't feel like the law that they are tring to uphold is beneath them.
Case in point, KC,MO this week , 3 cops pull over a lady that had warrants & at the time of being pulled over , she was having a miscarrage & bleeding all over. She asked 21 times to go to the hospital, the 3 cops 1 of which was a woman told her she was just on her period, and refused her med. help.
She lost the child.
So in answer to your question Yes they should face the same charges as you or I would.
A badge does Not make them a better person, in most cases , Not all but most it is just the other way around.
Dan0
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