DOUBLE TAPPING?
A Marine response to a simple question. Regarding the news blurb about the Marine who put two rounds ("double tap") in a wounded insurgent's head in Fallujah, here's a response from a Marine:
"It's a safety issue, pure and simple. After assaulting through a target, we put a security round in everybody's head. Sorry al-Reuters, there's no paddy wagon rolling around Fallujah picking up "prisoners" and offering them a hot cup o' Joe, falafel, and a blanket. There's no time to dick around on the target. You clear the space, dump the chumps, and move on.
Are Corpsman expected to treat wounded terrorists? Negative. Hey Libs, worried about the defense budget? Well, it would be waste, fraud, and abuse for a Corpsman to expend one man-minute or a battle dressing on a terrorist. It's much cheaper to just spend the $.02 on a 5.56mm FMJ. By the way, in our view, terrorists who chop off civilian's heads are not prisoners, they are carcasses. Chopping off a civilian's head is another reason why these idiots are known as "unlawful combatants." It seems that most of the world's journalists have forgotten that fact.
Let me be very clear about this issue. I have looked around the web, and many people get this concept, but there are some stragglers.
Here is your typical Marine sitrep (situation report): You just took fire from unlawful combatants (no uniform - breaking every Geneva Convention rule there is) shooting from a religious building attempting to use the sanctuary status of their position as protection. But you're in Fallujah now, and the Marine Corps has decided that they're not playing that game this time. That was Najaf. So you set the mosque on fire and you hose down the terrorists with small arms, launch some AT-4s (Rockets), some 40MM grenades into the building and things quiet down. So you run over there, and find some tangos (bad guys) wounded and pretending to be dead. You are aware that suicide martyrdom is like really popular with these idiots, and they think taking some Marines with them would be really cool. So you can either risk your life and your fire team's lives by having them cover you while you bend down and search a guy that you think is pretending to be dead for some reason. Most of the time these are the guys with the grenade or a vest made of explosives. Also, you don't know who or what is in the next room. You're already speaking English to the rest of your fire team or squad which lets the terrorist know you are there and you are his enemy. You are speaking loud because your hearing is poor from shooting people for several days. So you know that there are many other rooms to enter, and that if anyone is still alive in those rooms, they know that Americans are in the mosque. Meanwhile (3 seconds later), you still have this terrorist (that was just shooting at you from a mosque) playing possum. What do you do? You double tap his head, and you go to the next room, that's what!
What about the Geneva Convention and all that 'Law of Land Warfare' stuff? What about it? Without even addressing the issues at hand, your first thought should be, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6." Bear in mind that this tactic of double tapping a fallen terrorist is a perpetual mindset that is reinforced by experience on a minute by minute basis. Secondly, you are fighting an unlawful combatant in a Sanctuary, which is a double No-No on his part. Third, tactically you are in no position to take "prisoners" because there are more rooms to search and clear, and the behavior of said terrorist indicates that he is up to no good. No good in Fallujah is a very large place and the low end of no good and the high end of no good are fundamentally the same ... Marines end up getting hurt or die. So there is no compelling reason for you to do anything but double tap this idiot and get on with the mission.
If you are a veteran, then everything I have just written is self evident. If you are not a veteran, at least try to put yourself in the situation. Remember, in Fallujah there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow, there is only now, Right NOW. Have you ever lived in NOW for a week? It is really, really not easy. If you have never lived in NOW for longer than it takes to finish the big roller coaster at Six Flags, then shut your hole about putting Marines in jail for "War Crimes."
Semper Fi
"It's a safety issue, pure and simple. After assaulting through a target, we put a security round in everybody's head. Sorry al-Reuters, there's no paddy wagon rolling around Fallujah picking up "prisoners" and offering them a hot cup o' Joe, falafel, and a blanket. There's no time to dick around on the target. You clear the space, dump the chumps, and move on.
Are Corpsman expected to treat wounded terrorists? Negative. Hey Libs, worried about the defense budget? Well, it would be waste, fraud, and abuse for a Corpsman to expend one man-minute or a battle dressing on a terrorist. It's much cheaper to just spend the $.02 on a 5.56mm FMJ. By the way, in our view, terrorists who chop off civilian's heads are not prisoners, they are carcasses. Chopping off a civilian's head is another reason why these idiots are known as "unlawful combatants." It seems that most of the world's journalists have forgotten that fact.
Let me be very clear about this issue. I have looked around the web, and many people get this concept, but there are some stragglers.
Here is your typical Marine sitrep (situation report): You just took fire from unlawful combatants (no uniform - breaking every Geneva Convention rule there is) shooting from a religious building attempting to use the sanctuary status of their position as protection. But you're in Fallujah now, and the Marine Corps has decided that they're not playing that game this time. That was Najaf. So you set the mosque on fire and you hose down the terrorists with small arms, launch some AT-4s (Rockets), some 40MM grenades into the building and things quiet down. So you run over there, and find some tangos (bad guys) wounded and pretending to be dead. You are aware that suicide martyrdom is like really popular with these idiots, and they think taking some Marines with them would be really cool. So you can either risk your life and your fire team's lives by having them cover you while you bend down and search a guy that you think is pretending to be dead for some reason. Most of the time these are the guys with the grenade or a vest made of explosives. Also, you don't know who or what is in the next room. You're already speaking English to the rest of your fire team or squad which lets the terrorist know you are there and you are his enemy. You are speaking loud because your hearing is poor from shooting people for several days. So you know that there are many other rooms to enter, and that if anyone is still alive in those rooms, they know that Americans are in the mosque. Meanwhile (3 seconds later), you still have this terrorist (that was just shooting at you from a mosque) playing possum. What do you do? You double tap his head, and you go to the next room, that's what!
What about the Geneva Convention and all that 'Law of Land Warfare' stuff? What about it? Without even addressing the issues at hand, your first thought should be, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6." Bear in mind that this tactic of double tapping a fallen terrorist is a perpetual mindset that is reinforced by experience on a minute by minute basis. Secondly, you are fighting an unlawful combatant in a Sanctuary, which is a double No-No on his part. Third, tactically you are in no position to take "prisoners" because there are more rooms to search and clear, and the behavior of said terrorist indicates that he is up to no good. No good in Fallujah is a very large place and the low end of no good and the high end of no good are fundamentally the same ... Marines end up getting hurt or die. So there is no compelling reason for you to do anything but double tap this idiot and get on with the mission.
If you are a veteran, then everything I have just written is self evident. If you are not a veteran, at least try to put yourself in the situation. Remember, in Fallujah there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow, there is only now, Right NOW. Have you ever lived in NOW for a week? It is really, really not easy. If you have never lived in NOW for longer than it takes to finish the big roller coaster at Six Flags, then shut your hole about putting Marines in jail for "War Crimes."
Semper Fi
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Thats damn good!!!!I mean Damn good. 0 -
give that man a medal 0 -
GOD Bless them Marines! 0 -
Excellent post! 0 -
No clue if this is true or not, but if I were in the situation I'd do the same thing. 0 -
If true,---- great post
even if not.0 -
I don't suppose the person who wrote that has a name, rank and a unit, or is this info so secret that he cannot identify himself?
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=252245&SearchTerms=double,tap
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=240818&SearchTerms=double,tap0 -
IT'S NOT CALLED DOUBLE TAPPING ANYMORE!!!!! IT'S CALLED CONTROLLED PAIRS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 0 -
Who cares who wrote it, he could be one of several thousand Marines over there. I agree with what he said. Anyone sitting safely in his living room watching the news has no business or cause to second guess a soldier's actions during a time of war. It's kill or be killed and I for one want em all to come back alive regardless of the methods they use to accomplish that task.
If the politicians and bleeding hearts would let em line up from one side of Iraq to the other with about 5 meters between em and clear the whold country it might make an empression on those idiots.
They want us dead, period. So what is wrong with wanting them dead and wanting to live.
Bode0 -
quote:Originally posted by spanielsells
No clue if this is true or not, but if I were in the situation I'd do the same thing.
You Betcha!!0 -
Perfectly stated! 0 -
my thoughts on double tapping0 -
why do the same anonymous internet factiods get posted 5-10 times a year?
oh and Samantha Carter is hot!0 -
[8D]--I figure Gods gotta love MARINEs--
--Cause I sure do--
--[:D][:D]--JIMBO0 -
quote:Originally posted by KSUmarksman
why do the same anonymous internet factiods get posted 5-10 times a year?
oh and Samantha Carter is hot!
Because our membership just can't get enough of these or the "puff pieces", all of which likely come from the same guy who is sitting down in his mother's basement in front of his PC typing away.0 -
That was excellent!!! SEMPER FI!!!! 0 -
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a combatant that is feigning death or unconciousness is a fair target. cap 'em= or probe with a bayonet if you are concerned about ricochet/splashback at close range. 0 -
Makes perfect sense to me! 0 -
Announcing your location with a double blast from an M-4 may not always be desirable.
A bayonet or a silenced Ruger Mk2 might be better.
Hinged bayonets like on the SKS made a lot of sense.
We were trained to use bayonets.
Are soldiers too squeemish today?0 -
quote:Originally posted by v35
Announcing your location with a double blast from an M-4 may not always be desirable.
A bayonet or a silenced Ruger Mk2 might be better.
Hinged bayonets like on the SKS made a lot of sense.
We were trained to use bayonets.
Are soldiers too squeemish today?
Bayonet? Hmmm. Don't be surprised to see a Double Poke e-mail circulating on the web very soon and then posted here several times.0 -
quote:Originally posted by kristov
quote:Originally posted by KSUmarksman
why do the same anonymous internet factiods get posted 5-10 times a year?
oh and Samantha Carter is hot!
Because our membership just can't get enough of these or the "puff pieces", all of which likely come from the same guy who is sitting down in his mother's basement in front of his PC typing away.
indeed, a real Marine would probably never brag about killing (unless he is still waiting to deply) and certainly not about shooting wounded men, which while sometimes necessary is quite distasteful and dishonorable0 -
quote:Originally posted by KSUmarksman
quote:Originally posted by kristov
quote:Originally posted by KSUmarksman
why do the same anonymous internet factiods get posted 5-10 times a year?
oh and Samantha Carter is hot!
Because our membership just can't get enough of these or the "puff pieces", all of which likely come from the same guy who is sitting down in his mother's basement in front of his PC typing away.
indeed, a real Marine would probably never brag about killing (unless he is still waiting to deply) and certainly not about shooting wounded men, which while sometimes necessary is quite distasteful and dishonorable
My bet is what you know about marines, you read about in "internet factiods".
Don0 -
quote:Originally posted by 11b6r
a combatant that is feigning death or unconciousness is a fair target. cap 'em= or probe with a bayonet if you are concerned about ricochet/splashback at close range.
If you are close enough to touch them with a bayonet, you are close enough for them to take you out with a hidden grenade.0 -
Amanda Tapping 0 -
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