"My guns were stolen by Sherriff's Office"
Weapons weren't returned by Sheriff's Office
by Clarke Morrison, CMORRISON@CITIZEN-TIMES.COM, and Jon Ostendorff, JOSTENDORFF@CITIZEN-TIMES.COM
published June 10, 2007 12:15 am
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ASHEVILLE, N.C. - A retired law enforcement official believes guns stolen from his Alexander home 20 years ago are among those missing from the Buncombe County Sheriff's Office.
Retired officer Ray Moore believes the guns were in the custody of the Buncombe County Sheriff's Office in 1996 but were never returned to him.
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"My guns were just flat out stolen by Buncombe County," said Moore, who retired in 2003 as supervisor of court security for the U.S. Marshals Service at the federal courthouse in Asheville. "I think it's a sad, sorry day when you can't trust law enforcement."
The State Bureau of Investigation has launched a criminal probe into the handling of evidence under former Sheriff Bobby Medford after county auditors found widespread problems.
Medford left in December after being defeated by Van Duncan.
Moore said the collection, which included a Colt .45 and a rare Winchester, was worth $40,000.
One gun recovered
Henderson County authorities recovered one of Moore's 11 missing guns and returned it to him early this year, he said. That led him to suspect others might have been found, and he contacted the Buncombe County Sheriff's Office.
Officials in Duncan's administration allowed Moore to see a case file that showed eight of the 11 guns were listed as recovered in 1996 in a national database, Moore said.
"Nobody ever notified me about the guns at all," said Moore, who worked for the U.S. Marshals Service for 16 years and as a police officer in Michigan for 22 years.
Moore asked whether the guns were in the evidence room. An official said he checked but the guns couldn't be found, Moore said.
Lt. Randy Sorrells, a Sheriff's Office spokesman, said Friday he could not comment on the case until he's had more time to look into it.
But Sorrells said if the department ever had possession of the guns, the case could become part of the SBI investigation.
District Attorney Ron Moore, not related to Ray Moore, called for the investigation last month after seeing findings from the county audit. It said 223 handguns and 114 rifles and shotguns could not be located, proved to have been destroyed or returned to their owner by court order.
Keeping track of sales
Finding the missing guns could be impossible if they were sold, according to a gun dealer.
Wayne Bennett, of Bennett's Gun Exchange in Franklin, said most dealers ask few questions about guns they buy.
"If I buy a gun, I don't call and check to see if it is stolen," he said.
"To be honest with you, people are leery about running a check. Because if you got a gun and you think it is stolen and you call the sheriff and say, `Would you mind checking my gun and seeing if it is stolen?' and he does and it is stolen, it's gone - you lost it. They are going to take it."
There isn't a national database of guns sold that investigators could reference as they try to piece together what might have happened to the firearms.
Bennett, who has been in business since 1998, said when he buys a gun, he requires a picture identification card from the seller.
The law doesn't require that, but Bennett does it just in case the gun turns out to be stolen. That way he won't be held responsible.
He makes a record of the gun, including its make, model and serial number, and the name of the seller.
Bennett said most gun dealers use the "Blue Book of Gun Values" as a pricing guide. Gun values vary depending on condition, make and model.
A Colt .45 caliber, for example, might go for $600. A Smith & Wesson might bring $300.
Medford's response
Medford said last week he did not expect the SBI investigation to result in charges against him or any of his staff.
Medford said the missing guns had been encased in concrete used in building an addition to the county jail. He said there had been no theft of the guns or of drugs and money.
The guns had been evidence in cases that were closed, he said.
The county official in charge of the jail construction said Medford's explanation for the missing guns could not be true.
The guns destroyed and encased in concrete about two years ago were obtained through a buyback program overseen by the district attorney, county official Bill Stafford said.
Stafford said he signed documentation to destroy the $50,000 worth of weapons.
Guns seized in cases go through methodical process
By Jon Ostendorff
JOSTENDO@CITIZEN-TIMES.COM
The law for getting rid of guns seized in criminal cases in North Carolina gives wide discretion to judges.
It is broken into two parts: A case with a conviction and a case without.
In a case with a conviction, a judge may return the gun to its owner, but not if the owner was convicted of a crime involving the gun. It could be turned over to a sheriff to be destroyed.
A judge also may award the gun to the N.C. State Bureau of Investigation's Crime Laboratory Weapons Reference Library, or give it to the N.C. Justice Academy for official use.
A law enforcement agency involved in the case, also, could get the gun for sale or use.
In cases where there is no conviction, a judge may return the gun to its owner.
In cases where there is no clear ownership of the weapon, the gun may be turned over to the sheriff to be destroyed or it could be given to the law enforcement agency involved in the case.
The way sheriffs destroy guns varies.
Macon County Sheriff Robert Holland said his department uses a cutting torch to reduce guns to small pieces when a judge orders weapons destroyed.
"When it is destroyed, it is typically photographed and you typically have a couple of witnesses," he said.
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Contact Clarke Morrison at 828-232-5849, via e-mail at cmorriso@ashevill.gannett.com
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by Clarke Morrison, CMORRISON@CITIZEN-TIMES.COM, and Jon Ostendorff, JOSTENDORFF@CITIZEN-TIMES.COM
published June 10, 2007 12:15 am
Read all 28 comments ?
e-mail this
Print this
ASHEVILLE, N.C. - A retired law enforcement official believes guns stolen from his Alexander home 20 years ago are among those missing from the Buncombe County Sheriff's Office.
Retired officer Ray Moore believes the guns were in the custody of the Buncombe County Sheriff's Office in 1996 but were never returned to him.
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"My guns were just flat out stolen by Buncombe County," said Moore, who retired in 2003 as supervisor of court security for the U.S. Marshals Service at the federal courthouse in Asheville. "I think it's a sad, sorry day when you can't trust law enforcement."
The State Bureau of Investigation has launched a criminal probe into the handling of evidence under former Sheriff Bobby Medford after county auditors found widespread problems.
Medford left in December after being defeated by Van Duncan.
Moore said the collection, which included a Colt .45 and a rare Winchester, was worth $40,000.
One gun recovered
Henderson County authorities recovered one of Moore's 11 missing guns and returned it to him early this year, he said. That led him to suspect others might have been found, and he contacted the Buncombe County Sheriff's Office.
Officials in Duncan's administration allowed Moore to see a case file that showed eight of the 11 guns were listed as recovered in 1996 in a national database, Moore said.
"Nobody ever notified me about the guns at all," said Moore, who worked for the U.S. Marshals Service for 16 years and as a police officer in Michigan for 22 years.
Moore asked whether the guns were in the evidence room. An official said he checked but the guns couldn't be found, Moore said.
Lt. Randy Sorrells, a Sheriff's Office spokesman, said Friday he could not comment on the case until he's had more time to look into it.
But Sorrells said if the department ever had possession of the guns, the case could become part of the SBI investigation.
District Attorney Ron Moore, not related to Ray Moore, called for the investigation last month after seeing findings from the county audit. It said 223 handguns and 114 rifles and shotguns could not be located, proved to have been destroyed or returned to their owner by court order.
Keeping track of sales
Finding the missing guns could be impossible if they were sold, according to a gun dealer.
Wayne Bennett, of Bennett's Gun Exchange in Franklin, said most dealers ask few questions about guns they buy.
"If I buy a gun, I don't call and check to see if it is stolen," he said.
"To be honest with you, people are leery about running a check. Because if you got a gun and you think it is stolen and you call the sheriff and say, `Would you mind checking my gun and seeing if it is stolen?' and he does and it is stolen, it's gone - you lost it. They are going to take it."
There isn't a national database of guns sold that investigators could reference as they try to piece together what might have happened to the firearms.
Bennett, who has been in business since 1998, said when he buys a gun, he requires a picture identification card from the seller.
The law doesn't require that, but Bennett does it just in case the gun turns out to be stolen. That way he won't be held responsible.
He makes a record of the gun, including its make, model and serial number, and the name of the seller.
Bennett said most gun dealers use the "Blue Book of Gun Values" as a pricing guide. Gun values vary depending on condition, make and model.
A Colt .45 caliber, for example, might go for $600. A Smith & Wesson might bring $300.
Medford's response
Medford said last week he did not expect the SBI investigation to result in charges against him or any of his staff.
Medford said the missing guns had been encased in concrete used in building an addition to the county jail. He said there had been no theft of the guns or of drugs and money.
The guns had been evidence in cases that were closed, he said.
The county official in charge of the jail construction said Medford's explanation for the missing guns could not be true.
The guns destroyed and encased in concrete about two years ago were obtained through a buyback program overseen by the district attorney, county official Bill Stafford said.
Stafford said he signed documentation to destroy the $50,000 worth of weapons.
Guns seized in cases go through methodical process
By Jon Ostendorff
JOSTENDO@CITIZEN-TIMES.COM
The law for getting rid of guns seized in criminal cases in North Carolina gives wide discretion to judges.
It is broken into two parts: A case with a conviction and a case without.
In a case with a conviction, a judge may return the gun to its owner, but not if the owner was convicted of a crime involving the gun. It could be turned over to a sheriff to be destroyed.
A judge also may award the gun to the N.C. State Bureau of Investigation's Crime Laboratory Weapons Reference Library, or give it to the N.C. Justice Academy for official use.
A law enforcement agency involved in the case, also, could get the gun for sale or use.
In cases where there is no conviction, a judge may return the gun to its owner.
In cases where there is no clear ownership of the weapon, the gun may be turned over to the sheriff to be destroyed or it could be given to the law enforcement agency involved in the case.
The way sheriffs destroy guns varies.
Macon County Sheriff Robert Holland said his department uses a cutting torch to reduce guns to small pieces when a judge orders weapons destroyed.
"When it is destroyed, it is typically photographed and you typically have a couple of witnesses," he said.
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Contact Clarke Morrison at 828-232-5849, via e-mail at cmorriso@ashevill.gannett.com
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quote:The law for getting rid of guns seized in criminal cases in North Carolina gives wide discretion to judges.
It probably starts and ends here.
Too bad.
[V]0 -
I saw this on the local news recently and not only were firearms missing but a large quanity of confiscated drugs and over $200k in cash. Sheriff said he had no idea where it went, but was sure it could be accounted for. 0 -
I just resigned from "The High Road" firearms forum after the "moderator" sent me my first and final "warning" about "cop bashing." The topic was what to do if you are stopped or visited by law enforcement officers. I mentioned the case of the 92-year-old grandmother in Atlanta whose home was broken into by cops, and who was killed by them. I also mentioned the case of the New Orleans cop who shot to death a woman who had filed a sexual harassment charge against him. Although I'm a 57-year-old retired Army officer, and have always respected lawfully constituted authority, this "moderator" called my dispassionate post "cop bashing," although I stated in the post that I was grateful for all of the good cops who were around. The topic we are discussing here would never have seen the light of day on thehighroad.org. I thought that this was a group of enlightened gunowners who could discuss topics civilly, but this "moderator" was so narrow minded as to preclude that. My advice to any of you considering joining that forum: don't waste your time. You don't need someone hovering over you who cannot consider more than one point of view. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Chev.Jim
I just resigned from "The High Road" firearms forum after the "moderator" sent me my first and final "warning" about "cop bashing." The topic was what to do if you are stopped or visited by law enforcement officers. I mentioned the case of the 92-year-old grandmother in Atlanta whose home was broken into by cops, and who was killed by them. I also mentioned the case of the New Orleans cop who shot to death a woman who had filed a sexual harassment charge against him. Although I'm a 57-year-old retired Army officer, and have always respected lawfully constituted authority, this "moderator" called my dispassionate post "cop bashing," although I stated in the post that I was grateful for all of the good cops who were around. The topic we are discussing here would never have seen the light of day on thehighroad.org. I thought that this was a group of enlightened gunowners who could discuss topics civilly, but this "moderator" was so narrow minded as to preclude that. My advice to any of you considering joining that forum: don't waste your time. You don't need someone hovering over you who cannot consider more than one point of view.
I agree with your position that both sides of an arguement should be stated and discussed. But.....if you are someone who posts this stuff all the time and a pattern emerges then I would agree with the moderator! We have our own version of cop bashing on this forum and it appeared that this person was a one issue guy, that won't fly here for long.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Chev.Jim
I just resigned from "The High Road" firearms forum after the "moderator" sent me my first and final "warning" about "cop bashing." The topic was what to do if you are stopped or visited by law enforcement officers. I mentioned the case of the 92-year-old grandmother in Atlanta whose home was broken into by cops, and who was killed by them. I also mentioned the case of the New Orleans cop who shot to death a woman who had filed a sexual harassment charge against him. Although I'm a 57-year-old retired Army officer, and have always respected lawfully constituted authority, this "moderator" called my dispassionate post "cop bashing," although I stated in the post that I was grateful for all of the good cops who were around. The topic we are discussing here would never have seen the light of day on thehighroad.org. I thought that this was a group of enlightened gunowners who could discuss topics civilly, but this "moderator" was so narrow minded as to preclude that. My advice to any of you considering joining that forum: don't waste your time. You don't need someone hovering over you who cannot consider more than one point of view.
Frying pan to the fire? Maybe.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Chev.Jim
I just resigned from "The High Road" firearms forum after the "moderator" sent me my first and final "warning" about "cop bashing." The topic was what to do if you are stopped or visited by law enforcement officers. I mentioned the case of the 92-year-old grandmother in Atlanta whose home was broken into by cops, and who was killed by them. I also mentioned the case of the New Orleans cop who shot to death a woman who had filed a sexual harassment charge against him. Although I'm a 57-year-old retired Army officer, and have always respected lawfully constituted authority, this "moderator" called my dispassionate post "cop bashing," although I stated in the post that I was grateful for all of the good cops who were around. The topic we are discussing here would never have seen the light of day on thehighroad.org. I thought that this was a group of enlightened gunowners who could discuss topics civilly, but this "moderator" was so narrow minded as to preclude that. My advice to any of you considering joining that forum: don't waste your time. You don't need someone hovering over you who cannot consider more than one point of view.
You are safe here. All of us hate cops and moderators.
[;)]0 -
Uh, Mateo, it is attornys we don't like. 0 -
heard that if you get caught driving through denver with a handgun in your car, and the cops confiscate it, it's their "policy" not to return it to you for "public health" issues. they give you a check for the value of the gun.
sort of different problem. the above article, looks like the cop may have pulled a fast one to get some guns. regarding denver, it's more above board but more widespread and just as illegal.
the point being, problems with your guns ending up with the wrong owner against your wishes aren't isolated to just one location. you have to be on your toes.0 -
quote:Originally posted by He Dog
Uh, Mateo, it is attornys we don't like.
Right, sorry. All except Stink Foot anyway!!0
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