Baptist Leader: attack a gunman
http://tinyurl.com/2z4l3s
Baptist Leader Doesn't Regret Telling Students to Rush Gunmen
The head of a Southern Baptist seminary told male students they should charge an attacker if confronted with a situation like last week's Virginia Tech shootings.
Wed, Apr. 25, 2007 Posted: 07:43:56 AM EST
DALLAS (AP) - The head of a Southern Baptist seminary told male students they should charge an attacker if confronted with a situation like last week's Virginia Tech shootings.
Paige Patterson, president of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, made the comments at a chapel service April 18, two days after Seung-Hui Cho fatally shot 32 people before killing himself.
"All you had to do was have six or eight (students) rush him right at that time and 32 people wouldn't have died," Patterson said. "You don't let things like that happen, guys. We just don't do it."
Patterson, who helped lead the 1979 conservative takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention, told The Associated Press on Tuesday that he doesn't regret the remarks. He said he wasn't criticizing actions taken at Virginia Tech, though he said his comments were characterized that way by some "for less than noble reasons."
"None of us were there, and when the bullets are flying no one can predict the way anyone can respond, including myself," he said.
The seminary leader said part of his role includes building character among his students, some of whom will become missionaries and suffer for their faith. He said he is concerned by "the softness of our nation which allows and encourages acts like this."
"When a man takes a bomb or when he takes a gun and he goes out and he just begins to kill innocent people, that only happens in most cases because he thinks he can somehow get by with it, he won't be stopped," Patterson said.
Patterson's remarks were saved on the seminary's Web site.
Patterson put a statement on the site Monday stating that he sympathizes not only with families who suffered losses, but also the Virginia Tech president and security force, who he said are being maligned. Some observers have criticized the campus leadership for not responding to the gunman threat early enough.
"As the old military axiom notes, 'You plan for battle; but as soon the first shot is fired, the plan is pretty much over,'" he wrote. "Assigning blame to anyone in this situation is futile and hurtful."
He also said in the statement: "I am still just old-fashioned enough to believe that men are responsible to protect women and children."
Sgt. Allan Baron of Texas A&M University police told The Dallas Morning News, which first reported the remarks on its Web site Tuesday, that he would not recommend someone without training to charge an armed assailant.
"The best advice you could probably give to somebody in those type of situations is to look for a way to escape and get help immediately," he said.
Patterson became president of Southwestern in 2003. The Southern Baptist Convention is the largest Protestant denomination in the country, claiming 16.4 million members.
Baptist Leader Doesn't Regret Telling Students to Rush Gunmen
The head of a Southern Baptist seminary told male students they should charge an attacker if confronted with a situation like last week's Virginia Tech shootings.
Wed, Apr. 25, 2007 Posted: 07:43:56 AM EST
DALLAS (AP) - The head of a Southern Baptist seminary told male students they should charge an attacker if confronted with a situation like last week's Virginia Tech shootings.
Paige Patterson, president of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, made the comments at a chapel service April 18, two days after Seung-Hui Cho fatally shot 32 people before killing himself.
"All you had to do was have six or eight (students) rush him right at that time and 32 people wouldn't have died," Patterson said. "You don't let things like that happen, guys. We just don't do it."
Patterson, who helped lead the 1979 conservative takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention, told The Associated Press on Tuesday that he doesn't regret the remarks. He said he wasn't criticizing actions taken at Virginia Tech, though he said his comments were characterized that way by some "for less than noble reasons."
"None of us were there, and when the bullets are flying no one can predict the way anyone can respond, including myself," he said.
The seminary leader said part of his role includes building character among his students, some of whom will become missionaries and suffer for their faith. He said he is concerned by "the softness of our nation which allows and encourages acts like this."
"When a man takes a bomb or when he takes a gun and he goes out and he just begins to kill innocent people, that only happens in most cases because he thinks he can somehow get by with it, he won't be stopped," Patterson said.
Patterson's remarks were saved on the seminary's Web site.
Patterson put a statement on the site Monday stating that he sympathizes not only with families who suffered losses, but also the Virginia Tech president and security force, who he said are being maligned. Some observers have criticized the campus leadership for not responding to the gunman threat early enough.
"As the old military axiom notes, 'You plan for battle; but as soon the first shot is fired, the plan is pretty much over,'" he wrote. "Assigning blame to anyone in this situation is futile and hurtful."
He also said in the statement: "I am still just old-fashioned enough to believe that men are responsible to protect women and children."
Sgt. Allan Baron of Texas A&M University police told The Dallas Morning News, which first reported the remarks on its Web site Tuesday, that he would not recommend someone without training to charge an armed assailant.
"The best advice you could probably give to somebody in those type of situations is to look for a way to escape and get help immediately," he said.
Patterson became president of Southwestern in 2003. The Southern Baptist Convention is the largest Protestant denomination in the country, claiming 16.4 million members.
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I aplaud this man. It is about damn time that some public figure stands up and tells people that terrorism only works if you let it. If you refuse to be terrorized, if you refuse to be just another victim, if you fight back, you will always succeed. Don't get me wrong, people will still die. Sometimes more than if you had done nothing, but more often it will be less. Sometimes the heros will live, and other times they will die. Regardless, those who stand in the face of evil and defy its intentions have won the battle. Evil preys on the weak and the helpless, people who are already victims of a crime that hasn't been committed because they refuse to take responsibility for their safety and the safety of those around them.
I agree with this man. America has softened. It wasn't so long ago that Americans, as a united group, would stare unflenching into the face of evil. Now it seems that we wet our pants as we climb over eachother to scramble for the exits at the mere mention of acts of terror.
Sorry for the rant fellas, it late and I'm tired.0 -
Thank you Reverend Patterson.
"All you had to do was have six or eight (students) rush him right at that time and 32 people wouldn't have died," Patterson said. "You don't let things like that happen, guys. We just don't do it."
He is right. If six or eight guys had rushed the gunman, they would have stopped him. Some of those students would have been killed.
A good trick would be to grab a desk and hold it as a shield as you charge the gunman. It would make it hard for the gunman to acquire the target. Also it would be a good weapon, a guy running full speed, hit that gunman in the head or belly or balls with the leg of a desk.
I love the police spokesman:
Sgt. Allan Baron of Texas A&M University police told The Dallas Morning News, which first reported the remarks on its Web site Tuesday, that he would not recommend someone without training to charge an armed assailant.
"The best advice you could probably give to somebody in those type of situations is to look for a way to escape and get help immediately," he said.
Dear Sgt. Baron, "looking for a way to escape and getting help immediately" is exactly what the 32 dead students did. When you are inside a classroom there is no escape.
Many students called 911, but the cops did not get there in time.0 -
Actually I agree. The best way to avoid the situation is to find a route of escape. And, when it becomes painfully obvious that none exists, THEN you should do exactly what the Reverend suggests. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by PC800
http://tinyurl.com/2z4l3s
Baptist Leader Doesn't Regret Telling Students to Rush Gunmen
The head of a Southern Baptist seminary told male students they should charge an attacker if confronted with a situation like last week's Virginia Tech shootings.
Wed, Apr. 25, 2007 Posted: 07:43:56 AM EST
DALLAS (AP) - The head of a Southern Baptist seminary told male students they should charge an attacker if confronted with a situation like last week's Virginia Tech shootings.
Paige Patterson, president of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, made the comments at a chapel service April 18, two days after Seung-Hui Cho fatally shot 32 people before killing himself.
"All you had to do was have six or eight (students) rush him right at that time and 32 people wouldn't have died," Patterson said. "You don't let things like that happen, guys. We just don't do it."
Patterson, who helped lead the 1979 conservative takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention, told The Associated Press on Tuesday that he doesn't regret the remarks. He said he wasn't criticizing actions taken at Virginia Tech, though he said his comments were characterized that way by some "for less than noble reasons."
"None of us were there, and when the bullets are flying no one can predict the way anyone can respond, including myself," he said.
The seminary leader said part of his role includes building character among his students, some of whom will become missionaries and suffer for their faith. He said he is concerned by "the softness of our nation which allows and encourages acts like this."
"When a man takes a bomb or when he takes a gun and he goes out and he just begins to kill innocent people, that only happens in most cases because he thinks he can somehow get by with it, he won't be stopped," Patterson said.
Patterson's remarks were saved on the seminary's Web site.
Patterson put a statement on the site Monday stating that he sympathizes not only with families who suffered losses, but also the Virginia Tech president and security force, who he said are being maligned. Some observers have criticized the campus leadership for not responding to the gunman threat early enough.
"As the old military axiom notes, 'You plan for battle; but as soon the first shot is fired, the plan is pretty much over,'" he wrote. "Assigning blame to anyone in this situation is futile and hurtful."
He also said in the statement: "I am still just old-fashioned enough to believe that men are responsible to protect women and children."
Sgt. Allan Baron of Texas A&M University police told The Dallas Morning News, which first reported the remarks on its Web site Tuesday, that he would not recommend someone without training to charge an armed assailant.
"The best advice you could probably give to somebody in those type of situations is to look for a way to escape and get help immediately," he said.
Patterson became president of Southwestern in 2003. The Southern Baptist Convention is the largest Protestant denomination in the country, claiming 16.4 million members.
...and there folks, is the difference between Conservative thinking and liberal thinking...or a Conservative College and a Liberal College.0 -
The one big chink in the Reverend's armor is the question "Whom among you shall be the first to die?"
Nifty advice if you're not among the ones in the room rushing the gunman, probably getting shot and killed for your bravery or foolhardiness.
I still believe that legally carrying open or concealed is the best advice AND course of action in the aftermath of this tragedy and of others. That is what should be endorsed, pushed for and adopted in our Country a la Israel.
Face it, we are fast becoming a "free society" that is furiously backpeddalling away from confronting the real issues of self, home and public defense, subconsciously wary of the next terrorist attack or homegrown lunatic and hoping that the guys with the big white hats will ride in and save us before it's our turn to die.0 -
Imagine you are the gunman. You enter the classroom and shoot the teacher dead with three shots.
Four guys near the front of the class pick up their desks and, holding them in front as shields/weapons, charge at you.
These guys are no more than fifteen feet away from you. You shoot at the first guy, it is hard to see a torso because of the desk. Your first shot is on target, but it richocets off of the metal and hits no one. Your second and third shots drop the first guy.
You turn and fire at the second attacker. At that instant, two guys smash into you with the desks. You are knocked to the floor and you are knocked dizzy as your head hits the hard tile floor. The students grab the pistol from your hand.
Or, as actually happened in the VT shootings, the gunman enters the classroom, shoots the teacher dead, and all 18 students drop to the floor and assume the fetal position.0 -
quote:Originally posted by spanielsells
Actually I agree. The best way to avoid the situation is to find a route of escape. And, when it becomes painfully obvious that none exists, THEN you should do exactly what the Reverend suggests.
I agree completely, +10 -
Dang right! If I'm gonna' die by just standing there, I'm at least going to try to give myself a chance or if he takes me out, at least some of the others may have a chance! 0 -
This world is made up of sheep, sheep dogs, and wolves. The vast majority of people are sheep.[V]
http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html0 -
Just because no one was successful at stopping this guy, people assume that no one attempted to fight back. It wouldn't surprise me if some of these victims made futile attempts to stop him, but no witnesses to their actions survived.
A lot could've happened in those different rooms that we'll never know about.0 -
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
Imagine you are the gunman. You enter the classroom and shoot the teacher dead with three shots.
Four guys near the front of the class pick up their desks and, holding them in front as shields/weapons, charge at you.
These guys are no more than fifteen feet away from you. You shoot at the first guy, it is hard to see a torso because of the desk. Your first shot is on target, but it richocets off of the metal and hits no one. Your second and third shots drop the first guy.
You turn and fire at the second attacker. At that instant, two guys smash into you with the desks. You are knocked to the floor and you are knocked dizzy as your head hits the hard tile floor. The students grab the pistol from your hand.
Or, as actually happened in the VT shootings, the gunman enters the classroom, shoots the teacher dead, and all 18 students drop to the floor and assume the fetal position.
Agree totally,...........and yes the first person will have to be very brave, as he will most likely die, but they died anyway, didn't they?0 -
Good posting ... and as I told my wife, if I am in a situation like that my desire/plan/prayer is that I would take action alone or with others to try to take out the guy with the gun.
I'm not blocking the door ... I'll be standing behind it, ready to jump the guy with the gun when he walks it to try to terrorize more people in the room.
I am not blaming anyone for what they did or did not do. I feel bad about the whole thing, and I'm afraid the anti's will use it against us all ... and they will THINK they are making the world a safer place![:(][:(][:(][:(][:(][:(]
I just thought of something else ... I would get my Swiss Army knife out and ready for the chance of a lifetime to use it! Even if Crocodile Dundee would not call it a knife, it would be better than nothing and I would use it.[:(!][:(!][:(!]0 -
I agree with the right reverend. 0 -
andersk: Standing behind the door would be a great idea. When the gunman comes in, jump him from behind. Bear hug him and take him down, then it is a life and death struggle for the gun.
Hopefully, some other students would help out.
However, if it were like Columbine, and one guy jumped the first gunman from behind, the second gunman would make the guy who hid behind the door a dead hero.
Still, worth the risk.0 -
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
Imagine you are the gunman. You enter the classroom and shoot the teacher dead with three shots.
Four guys near the front of the class pick up their desks and, holding them in front as shields/weapons, charge at you.
These guys are no more than fifteen feet away from you. You shoot at the first guy, it is hard to see a torso because of the desk. Your first shot is on target, but it richocets off of the metal and hits no one. Your second and third shots drop the first guy.
You turn and fire at the second attacker. At that instant, two guys smash into you with the desks. You are knocked to the floor and you are knocked dizzy as your head hits the hard tile floor. The students grab the pistol from your hand.
Or, as actually happened in the VT shootings, the gunman enters the classroom, shoots the teacher dead, and all 18 students drop to the floor and assume the fetal position.
Nice scenario to imagine, but it still doesn't answer the question, "Who among you shall be the first - and maybe even the only one - to die?" I strongly advise anyone reading this to NOT assume that your fellow citizen will, in fact, "volunteer" for this task.0 -
"Nice scenario to imagine, but it still doesn't answer the question, "Who among you shall be the first - and maybe even the only one - to die?" I strongly advise anyone reading this to NOT assume that your fellow citizen will, in fact, "volunteer" for this task."
You are right, slowhand. If a guy grabbed a desk and charged the gunman, probably nobody else would help him.
Would you rather die like that, or die lying on the floor in the fetal position?0 -
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
"Nice scenario to imagine, but it still doesn't answer the question, "Who among you shall be the first - and maybe even the only one - to die?" I strongly advise anyone reading this to NOT assume that your fellow citizen will, in fact, "volunteer" for this task."
You are right, slowhand. If a guy grabbed a desk and charged the gunman, probably nobody else would help him.
Would you rather die like that, or die lying on the floor in the fetal position?
That's my point exactly, allen! Whatever any of us decides to do in the heat of the moment and in an effort to neutralize a gunman, I fear that we'd be doing it all alone. The overwhelming majority of folks, IMO, would take the position that "I won't do anyhing because maybe he'll leave us alone so I don't want push him or piss him off and get myself killed". Those three words are pretty much the only thing that folks think about. I'm all for open or concealed carry across the board as I'd rather take my chances with armed and law-abiding citizens 24x7 but know that we - the people - have the means to send a lunatic to an early conference call in the everafter.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Txs
Just because no one was successful at stopping this guy, people assume that no one attempted to fight back. It wouldn't surprise me if some of these victims made futile attempts to stop him, but no witnesses to their actions survived.
A lot could've happened in those different rooms that we'll never know about.
You are right but I dont think its about what they did in there, its about what the dumb ass;s are saying to do <lay down and give up> I dont think so you know that after the lets say 1st 3 or 4 are shot you know what the killer is planing so if Im to die Ill die fighting.0 -
That is a man talkin'.
Remember the 10 ft rule. If a perp does not have his gun trained on you, you can more than likely cover that 10 ft. before he is able to get an accurate shot off. Once you reach the perp, GOUGE HIS FRIGGIN" EYES OUT AND STICK YOU FINGERS INTO HIS BRAIN !!!!!
We must condition ourselves and the menfolk in our lives to act and behave like men. Protect the weak. Defeat the evil.0 -
The amount of people here who advocate getting out of there and not trying to disarm someone like this, I find to be amazing. How could anyone call themselves a MAN, and not try to disarm someone like this. Hell if nothing else, have someone throw books at him to distract him, and get him off balance. 0 -
quote:
The amount of people here who advocate getting out of there and not trying to disarm someone like this, I find to be amazing. How could anyone call themselves a MAN, and not try to disarm someone like this. Hell if nothing else, have someone throw books at him to distract him, and get him off balance.
A question here to the larger and royal "you" about bravery, i.e. being a "man". No one in particular.
Do you think that you could walk into a quarantined hospital room and care for an individual - up close and personal - who is dying from a raging case of AIDS, Karposi's Sarcoma, tuberculosis, the Ebola virus, smallpox, polio, diptheria, or thypus? There are dedicated men and women who do it every day without blinking an eye and who, unfortunately, still get exposed to these deadly diseases and consequently infected because of something freak or unfortunate or unforeseen. I take my hat off to these folks because I know for sure that I can't and won't be around people who are that sick.
What about firemen? Think you have the actual balls to run into a raging inferno to save someone else, knowing that at any moment the building may explode or just come crashing down on you? I know that I was not cut out to be a fireman.
Cops? Astronauts? Lion-tamers? Circus aerialists? Bungee jumpers? Parachutists? Daredevils? Basejumpers? Deep sea divers? I can't and won't do any of them, at least not anytime soon.
Every man or woman fears something yet he or she will have more balls than most when it comes to facing serious bodily harm or death in a specific fashion.
How about the news reporter who will sacrifice personal freedom and go to jail for upwards of several years because he or she refuses to divulge a source? Think you'd want to go to jail, with all the lowlifes, deviates and super-tough thugs solely on principle?
It's easy for any of us to say that someone, anyone, should jump up and do something "brave" in a given situation but unless you're actually there and see it unfold, it's conjecture at best.
IMHO, if a gunman, armed as this lunatic Cho was, ran into a classroom and started firing away at people, the initial human instinct is one of self-preservation, i.e diving under a desk for cover, not making a quick strategic assessment and rushing the madman on your own, totally unarmed and completely vulnerable. One brave unarmed soul in this tragedy would have been just that - a soul for all eternity.
Rather than play into the anti's hand here by endorsing the foolish bravado of unarmed individuals, I'll continue to empasize and beat the drum that all law-abiding Americans should be properly armed, if they so desire, so as to make tragedies like this recent one virtually impossible to replicate or "improve" [great sarcasm] upon.
"An armed society is a polite society" No???0 -
Simple mathematics, cornered by a gunman and not resisting: probability of death is near certainty (unless you are lucky enough to be left only wounded and survive long enough to get proper medical care). Probability of death if you and a few others fight back: less than 1.0
Logic dictates that one should fight back with whatever means are available. Resistance is not futile, if you are lucky you will live as a hero, if you are unlucky it is better to die a hero than just plain die.0 -
I don't think anyone would have time to figure out just what was going to happen next, but before I got too concerned about what MIGHT happen next I'd make MY MOVE next. MY MOVE would start with surprise, and I'd be going for the shooter with what ever I had handy ... a book, a pencil, a Swiss Army knife, my back pack ... whatever! 0 -
quote:
I don't think anyone would have time to figure out just what was going to happen next, but before I got too concerned about what MIGHT happen next I'd make MY MOVE next. MY MOVE would start with surprise, and I'd be going for the shooter with what ever I had handy ... a book, a pencil, a Swiss Army knife, my back pack ... whatever!
An honest question here about human nature, fear as an instinct and the element of surprise.
Long sentence coming up but please bear with me.
If you were sitting down in a desk within a classroom focused on cerebral educational activity or simply daydreaming while checking out the rack on the gal two seats across from you and a lunatic burst in and started firing at people, what is the very first, as in immediate, thing that you, presumably a normal, sane person is most likely to do?
1. Duck and dive for cover
2. Try to make a break for it and head for the door while he's firing away
3. Jump up, bolt forward, charge the gunman and try to disarm or neutralize him even if he's firing in your direction
I believe that each of would like to believe we have the chops to be proactive and do something truly heroic in a split second's notice but in this particular scenario, millenia of instincts and reinforced behavior initially kick in and self-preservation becomes the priority.
Now, I'm not suggesting that if this lunatic was in the same room firing randomly away for several minutes, perhaps someone, after some thought, wouldn't try to rush and overpower him.
But from all eyewitness accounts, these attacks were fast and furious. Anyone lucky enough to have been spared one of his rounds and/or who survived being shot was probably not going to go after him at that point.
That's simply human nature, not a criticism of what many of us would like to think we're capable of when faced with a life and death crisis.
The anti's are quick to denounce carrying a weapon but oh so eager to shed tears, lay wreaths, light candles, sing songs and hug when these tragedies occur. I'll wager that every parent who lost a child that Monday and the professors' families will live long to regret that someone in those classrooms - anyone - did not also have a gun with him or her that morning.
What's that line about Sam Colt? "God made man but guns made man equal" or something like that.0 -
Preparedness begins with Education.
I believe this man and his ideas are on track where education is concerned.0 -
Someone has to do something, and like it or not, when faced with the situations, it may very well be you. As far as the fireman thing, yes I"ve been a volunter fireman, and yes I"ve ran into a house a blaze to put it out. Some of us are able to over come our fear, and do what needs doing, and apperantly some of us are not.quote:Originally posted by Slow_Hand
quote:
The amount of people here who advocate getting out of there and not trying to disarm someone like this, I find to be amazing. How could anyone call themselves a MAN, and not try to disarm someone like this. Hell if nothing else, have someone throw books at him to distract him, and get him off balance.
A question here to the larger and royal "you" about bravery, i.e. being a "man". No one in particular.
Do you think that you could walk into a quarantined hospital room and care for an individual - up close and personal - who is dying from a raging case of AIDS, Karposi's Sarcoma, tuberculosis, the Ebola virus, smallpox, polio, diptheria, or thypus? There are dedicated men and women who do it every day without blinking an eye and who, unfortunately, still get exposed to these deadly diseases and consequently infected because of something freak or unfortunate or unforeseen. I take my hat off to these folks because I know for sure that I can't and won't be around people who are that sick.
What about firemen? Think you have the actual balls to run into a raging inferno to save someone else, knowing that at any moment the building may explode or just come crashing down on you? I know that I was not cut out to be a fireman.
Cops? Astronauts? Lion-tamers? Circus aerialists? Bungee jumpers? Parachutists? Daredevils? Basejumpers? Deep sea divers? I can't and won't do any of them, at least not anytime soon.
Every man or woman fears something yet he or she will have more balls than most when it comes to facing serious bodily harm or death in a specific fashion.
How about the news reporter who will sacrifice personal freedom and go to jail for upwards of several years because he or she refuses to divulge a source? Think you'd want to go to jail, with all the lowlifes, deviates and super-tough thugs solely on principle?
It's easy for any of us to say that someone, anyone, should jump up and do something "brave" in a given situation but unless you're actually there and see it unfold, it's conjecture at best.
IMHO, if a gunman, armed as this lunatic Cho was, ran into a classroom and started firing away at people, the initial human instinct is one of self-preservation, i.e diving under a desk for cover, not making a quick strategic assessment and rushing the madman on your own, totally unarmed and completely vulnerable. One brave unarmed soul in this tragedy would have been just that - a soul for all eternity.
Rather than play into the anti's hand here by endorsing the foolish bravado of unarmed individuals, I'll continue to empasize and beat the drum that all law-abiding Americans should be properly armed, if they so desire, so as to make tragedies like this recent one virtually impossible to replicate or "improve" [great sarcasm] upon.
"An armed society is a polite society" No???0 -
Some folks should try living and working in the bowels of NYC for 50+ years WITHOUT a gun, WITHOUT a Bowie knife, WITHOUT a bow and arrow and WITHOUT a rifle. Maybe even ride the subways ALONE late at night completely unarmed and totally vulnerable. Been there, done that, over and over again. Guess what?! I'm still alive and kicking. Whoop-dee-do for me!
I've been in more bad-ass urban areas throughout the Northeast throughout my sales and managerial career than most folks could ever dream of and I know full well how to survive. Bed-Stuy. Fort Apache, Bronx. Roxbury. Philly. Newark. Try visting Camden, NJ for a day or two and see what it's like to be in one of the highest violent crime-riddled areas. I've worked those areas over the 30+ years I was in the automotive industry.
FWIW, I'm no fighter, I'm no warrior, I'm no Mighty Joe Young, and I'm no John Wayne. I've used my brains, tact and diplomacy while a lot of others probably held their little head in either palm and pooped their skivvies.
So, bravery - or chutzpah - and balls are not so much defined by what someone or anyone posts here on the GunBroker forums.0 -
No offense meant slow hand, I'dsay notmany here have any interest in NYC, and the way they to things there.quote:Originally posted by Slow_Hand
Some folks should try living and working in the bowels of NYC for 50+ years WITHOUT a gun, WITHOUT a Bowie knife, WITHOUT a bow and arrow and WITHOUT a rifle. Maybe even ride the subways ALONE late at night completely unarmed and totally vulnerable. Been there, done that, over and over again. Guess what?! I'm still alive and kicking. Whoop-dee-do for me!
I've been in more bad-ass urban areas throughout the Northeast throughout my sales and managerial career than most folks could ever dream of and I know full well how to survive. Bed-Stuy. Fort Apache, Bronx. Roxbury. Philly. Newark. Try visting Camden, NJ for a day or two and see what it's like to be in one of the highest violent crime-riddled areas. I've worked those areas over the 30+ years I was in the automotive industry.
FWIW, I'm no fighter, I'm no warrior, I'm no Mighty Joe Young, and I'm no John Wayne. I've used my brains, tact and diplomacy while a lot of others probably held their little head in either palm and pooped their skivvies.
So, bravery - or chutzpah - and balls are not so much defined by what someone or anyone posts here on the GunBroker forums.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Slow_Hand
Some folks should try living and working in the bowels of NYC for 50+ years WITHOUT a gun, WITHOUT a Bowie knife, WITHOUT a bow and arrow and WITHOUT a rifle. Maybe even ride the subways ALONE late at night completely unarmed and totally vulnerable. Been there, done that, over and over again. Guess what?! I'm still alive and kicking. Whoop-dee-do for me!
I've been in more bad-ass urban areas throughout the Northeast throughout my sales and managerial career than most folks could ever dream of and I know full well how to survive. Bed-Stuy. Fort Apache, Bronx. Roxbury. Philly. Newark. Try visting Camden, NJ for a day or two and see what it's like to be in one of the highest violent crime-riddled areas. I've worked those areas over the 30+ years I was in the automotive industry.
FWIW, I'm no fighter, I'm no warrior, I'm no Mighty Joe Young, and I'm no John Wayne. I've used my brains, tact and diplomacy while a lot of others probably held their little head in either palm and pooped their skivvies.
So, bravery - or chutzpah - and balls are not so much defined by what someone or anyone posts here on the GunBroker forums.
I lived in NYC for almost five years. Your portrayal is accurate. Still rather have had a gun than not...0
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